Ancient Pakistan - 500Bc

[Indus Pakistan]

* For the purposes of this thread take the meaning of 'Pakistan' to be coterminous with the Indus basin.

So if there were a time machine and you could go back to about 500BC the first surprise would be that most of our Pakistan was in the Persian Achaemenid Empire. The mighty Persian Empire stretched from Greece to Pakistan, from Egypt to Kazakistan. It was divided into Satrapies like we have provinces in Pakistan today.

Have a look at the map below. You will notice the Satrapy of Hindush [India] is modern day Sindh, Satrapy of Gedrosia modern day Balochistan, Satrapy of Sattagydia modern day Punjab and parts of Arachosia and Gandhara modern day Khyber Pak province. Is that not interesting?

I will be doing series of historical articles but I thought I would just give a taster of what I intend to do. I do not want the typical 'but Pakistan created in 1947' childish rubbish I get so often. First and foremost do please read the first line of this post. It makes everything quite explicable but just in case any of you fail to understand what that caveat means let me explain in detail.

When we go back in time we run into many problems. For a start words or names that mean one thing today will mean something else then. If you go back 5,000 years ago there was nothing. No nation, no landmass had name yet. We use words or names invented today to apply backwards. Example we say 'Harappan civilization'. You realise that name did not exist 5,000 years ago.

Drift (linguistics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sometimes even if a name existed it might have meant something else. A fine example is 'Asia' That name was coined by Greeks for what is now the Aegean coast of Turkey. Soon it came to mean all of modern Turkey [ Anatolia ] then it came to mean our part of the world. Then in time it drifted even more east and it came to mean even include Japan.

Etymology of Asia : List of continent name etymologies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So a name that meant the Aegean coast of Anatolia today is even used for Japan. This sort of change of meaning is called 'linquistic drift' and is quite common.Thus in 500BC when Persians said 'Hindush' it meant Sindh. It had no religious or other meaning that you think of today. In history you have to contextulize words or names. You can't hear a 500Bc name and then attach the modern meaning as used today. You must translate according to context that is the time, 500BC.

Anyway here it is.

Sindh - Hindush [India]
Punjab - Sattagydia
Balochistan - Gedrosia
Khyber Pak- Arachosia/Gandhara

* Of course 2,500 years ago they din't match the precise modern boundaries of Pakistan provinces but they are pretty close.

* The English translations are given. There is a table underneath the map where you will find in parenthesis the Persian names for the Satrapies.

Modern Provincial map of Pakistan.

* The Persian Empire included modern Greece, part of Bulgaria, Turkey, Iran, Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, Isreal, Palestine, Egypt, Libyia, Kuwait, part of Saudia Arabia ,Azerbaijan, Armenia, Georgia, Chechnia, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, parts of Kazakistan, Kirghiztan, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

 

[Menace2Society]

I also find it fascinating how the boundaries during ancient times pertain to near enough the modern day Pakistani border. I would be interested to learn if there is a historical significance to the geography which I am sure there is.

A lot of ancient Pakistani history has been robbed off us out of ignorance.

 

[A1Kaid]

Pakistanum.

 

[Icewolf]

Sad that we got most of our history robbed by the Negroid Australiods to the east.

 

[ArsalanKhan21]

Sad that we got most of our history robbed by the Negroid Australiods to the east.

Thats sums your intellectual capacity.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I also find it fascinating how the boundaries during ancient times pertain to near enough the modern day Pakistani border. I would be interested to learn if there is a historical significance to the geography which I am sure there is.

A lot of ancient Pakistani history has been robbed off us out of ignorance.

Yes, indeed I am glad you brought that up. There is always geographic forces informing history. Imagine if you spilled water on the floor. Ever observed how it spreads out? It tends to follow path of least resistance. The limits of where it spreads upto where it's gravitational impetus runs out which of course is determined by the floor uneveness.

In the same way I want you to look at the satelite image of the Indus Basin that Pakistan occupies. You will notice we are part of South Asia. However what most people do not appreciate is the Indus Basin is a sub unit of the bigger whole. Think of Scandanavia and Europe. The former is a geographic sub unit of the latter.

1. Sky Blue Line.

First look at the sky blue line at the bottom of the map on right side of Sindh. That is Rann of Kutch. A marshy, salty plain which is barren and represents a barrier to movement. Do go to Google Earth and get close up and you will see what I mean. This is a natural divider.

2. Green Line.

This runs from Rann of Kutch up toward Punjab. It marks the approx centre of the Thar Desert. Thar Desert effectively divides Sindh and South Punjab from most of India. You have almost 200 miles of sand, semi to arid desert that represents a major barrier between Pakistan and India. This is visible on the map as the colour is sandy. The sandy colour of Thar separates the fertile Indus basin from most of India.

3. The Broken Yellow Line.

Only at the top running through old Punjab where I marked broken yellow line is there a 'bridge' between Ganges/Peninsular India and the Indus Basin. It will be of no surprise then that this is the only part that had to be partitioned in 1947 as it is the only 'bridge' connecting Indus and Ganges Basins.

Anyway what I am saying is between 1 and 2 that is Sky Blue line and Green line most of Indus Basin is distinct and separated by salt marsh or deserts. Even the old Persian Empire chose that as approx. limit because of course there was dry desert there. So the boundary is not accidental but geography is defining it. As you will see later this line has come up frequently in history as a physical divider between Indus Basin and the Ganges Basin/Peninsular India

At any rate look at the map and everything I am saying is visible to the eye. By the way this dividing line has been called the Kathiwar-Gurdaspur Salient.

The blue lines are River Indus and the smaller Punjab rivers. These are significant in history as most of the Indus Basin would have been desert in history. Only since British started massive irrigation projects in 1890s onwards that Pakistan has continued by building dams and canals that we have the farms and green fertile strip running north south. In history only the very narrow strip adjacent to the rivers would have supported most of the population. Rest would have been desert with tiny population.

From the map it is clear that the Indus Basin is distinct from Ganges Basin. It is no wonder therefore that Pakistan border is proximate to the Kathiwar-Gurdaspur Salient as marked by me in coloured lines. The salty Rann of Kutch and the Thar Desert mark it out as barrier and most empires from the west used that as their boundary. You will ses this this pattern repeated in history.

Also do look at the Persian Empire Map. People say Pakistan was created. Out of curiousity how many other countries do you see there? Afghanistan? Turkey? Jordan? Uzbekistan? Bulgaria. Do yousee my point? All countries are creations.

Those of you who are serious about reading our history should read up on Prof. Hasan Ahmad Dani who is a world class archaeologist and has written many books on Pakistan.

Ahmad Hassan Dani Interview Contents

Ahmad Hasan Dani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Indus Pakistan]

^
This is classic example of Indian reaction. The entire forum can see. If this Desi punk has a case then why not back up his assertion? He could have used his intellect if he has any to counter what I said. Instead he uses profanity and then having acted like a Neanderthal questions my IQ. Mods can you please clear this garbage ....

This also shows how they start burning when they see us owning our own history. Why? are we taking anything off them? What harm are we doing to them. We are only talking about our land and it's past. Please somebody tell me what does this have to do with them?

This is how they destroyed every thread I opened in another forum. They would dive bomb me dozen at a time. Have you seen how Dracula is terrified of garlic and light? Well that's the way Indian's regard any history on Pakistan.

So let the light shine bright !!!!

like white american boasting about Incas...

Your reacting like I gave you a kick between your legs ....

 

[Icewolf]

like white american boasting about Incas...

Yea but Indo-Aryans are indigenous to the IVC while Dravidian negroid Australiods like you are not

 

[Icewolf]

This is just fcking hilarious..."ancient pakistan".
Not even sure how much IQ one would have to drop to start thinking that there was an "ancient pakistan".

First read the post our people have a great history and we are among the best ancient civilizations of the world

 

[Menace2Society]

Indian troll alert.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Why are you reacting like your rear caught fire?

Have you got Nelson's eye? Scroll up and look at the reaction of your countryman Desiguy at post #7 and his profanity and you think I am over reacting. To my fellow Pakistani's observe what the reaction of these Indian's is. Insane.

We talk about our land. Our history. Our business. I did not even intrude into Bharat one inch and look at them, like hornets nest has been shaken, they are going crazy. I used no vulgarity. In fact I did not even mention the history of Bharat.

I rest my case.

 

[Sneaker]

Yea but Indo-Aryans are indigenous to the IVC while Dravidian negroid Australiods like you are not

Whole human species originated from negroids...

 

[Icewolf]

It would rather be ancient India..lol

India is the Ganges valley civilization not related to IVC

 

[Menace2Society]

Have you got Nelson's eye? Scroll up and look at the reaction of your countryman Desiguy at post #7 and his profanity and you think I am over reacting. To my fellow Pakistani's observe what the reaction of these Indian's is. Insane.

I hope the mod clears up the troll posts here. There is time and a place for trolling.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

This makes me more determined to prepare a comprehensive resource base here. If I can get ten Pakistani interested in our history I will consider it a success. I will have done my duty to my country and the land of my ancestors. If those ten then can go on spread to others we could begin a change.

* Everybody can see I was using clean language and sticking to the thread title. Trust me I am a champ at vulgarity but i restrained myself because I treat this as a serious undertaking however look what is happening.

This is a Pakistani forum .....

I think we are going have to restrict posts to senior members if this new history forum is going to work. Otherwise these Indians will just derail every thread. That way every body can read it but they can't derail anything.