Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

[Logic note]

Read before. Vedism is a completely different religion to Hinduism of today.

Therefore Vedic temples are not Hindu temples.

It's like saying Jewish synagogues are the same as Islamic Mosques. Not even this in fact.

Where did u invent this from ?
do you know Veda= Religious books of Hindu

Vedism
there is nothing called as vedism
I belive in Advaita Hinduism , rather advaita is one of the Philosophical schools of Hinduism and is derived from Veda

 

[roadrunner]

The Vedic religion (Rig Vedic religion it should be) is all but extinct now. But it used to exist. These temples are Vedic temples, not Hindu temples

 

[Logic note]

The Vedic religion (Rig Vedic religion it should be) is all but extinct now. But it used to exist. These temples are Vedic temples, not Hindu temples

The Vedas (Sanskrit v�da वेद "knowledge") are a large corpus of texts originating in Ancient India. They form the oldest layer of Sanskrit literature[1] and the oldest sacred texts of Hinduism.[2]

According to Hindu tradition, the Vedas are apauruṣeya "not human compositions"[3], being supposed to have been directly revealed, and thus are called śruti ("what is heard").[4][5] Vedic mantras are recited at Hindu prayers, religious functions and other auspicious occasions.

Philosophies and sects that developed in the Indian subcontinent have taken differing positions on the Vedas. Schools of Indian philosophy which cite the Vedas as their scriptural authority are classified as "orthodox" (āstika). Two other Indian philosophies, Buddhism and Jainism, did not accept the authority of the Vedas and evolved into separate religions. In Indian philosophy these groups are referred to as "heterodox" or "non-Vedic" (nāstika) schools.[6]. In addition to Buddhism and Jainism, Sikhism also does not accept the authority of the Vedas.[7] [8]

The Four Vedas
Rigveda (padapatha) manuscript in Devanagari, early 19th century
Rigveda (padapatha) manuscript in Devanagari, early 19th century

The canonical division of the Vedas is fourfold (turīya) viz.,[21]

1. Rig-Veda (RV)
2. Yajur-Veda (YV, with the main division TS vs. VS)
3. Sama-Veda (SV)
4. Atharva-Veda (AV)

Of these, the first three were the principal original division, also called trayī, "the triple Vidyā", that is, "the triple sacred science" of reciting hymns (RV), performing sacrifices (YV), and chanting (SV).[22][23] This triplicity is so introduced in the Brahmanas (ShB, ABr and others), but the Rigveda is the only original work of the three with the other two largely borrowing from it.

 

[Logic note]

here is complete Translation of Rigveda hymns in english .
you are an intelligent guy Roadrunner , and would suggest that instead of proving what you believe in, you shall try to expand the horizon of your knowledge .

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/rigveda/rigveda1_1.asp

 

[roadrunner]

Rig Veda formed the religion of the Vedic people. This isn't the same as Hinduism. Beef eating was permitted for example in the Rig Veda, cows were slaughtered, but later books forbade the killing of cows..which is why it's been banned in several Indian states today. Also Vedism was a monotheistic religion, Hinduism isn't. There are verses from the Rig Veda that prove these are part of Vedism, but Hinduism has banned these. Therefore they're not the same religion. The Gangetic people have evolved the Vedic religion into something completely unrecognizeable.

 

[Logic note]

Rig Veda formed the religion of the Vedic people. This isn't the same as Hinduism.

veda is the religious book of hindus .I have given the link of translated rig veda .. read it
I think the confusion is in your mind because you know nothing about hindusim ( vedism )

Beef eating was permitted for example in the Rig Veda, cows were slaughtered, but later books forbade the killing of cows..which is why it's been banned in several Indian states today

Unlike Islam and Christianity, Hindusim is not set of rules . it is based on various intellectual or philosophical schools of thinking which constitutes various Hindu sects .
these philosophical thinkings keeps on reforming themselves and have diffrent interpretation by diffrent ppl . some Hindus still eat Meat and others are vegetarians .

Also Vedism was a monotheistic religion, Hinduism isn't.

As I said , you have no idea about Hindusim . Hinduism is a Monotheistic religion .( I know thats surprising for you )

There are verses from the Rig Veda that prove these are part of Vedism, but Hinduism has banned these.

There is no Final authority like Pope or Imam in Hindusim because it is against the basic principle of Hindusim which is the freedom of an individual to search for truth hence There is No concept of BANNING in Hindusim.
can you plz tell me , which verses have been Banned

The Gangetic people have evolved the Vedic religion into something completely unrecognizeable.

As I said , you are ignorant about the Hindusim , what you know is from your precpetion which is made by , your society and your education system

Vedism and hindusim is like Quranism and Islam - both are same

 

[Logic note]

Hindusim is Monothestic religion .

According to Hindusim ( Advaita School)

God is not the ultimate Truth

Brahman is the ultimate truth which is Supreme Cosmic Spirit it is the One, the whole and the only reality. Other than Brahman, everything else, including the universe, material objects and individuals, are false. Brahman is at best described as that infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent, incorporeal, impersonal, transcendent reality that is the divine ground of all Being. Brahman is often described as neti neti meaning "not this, not this" because it cannot be correctly described as this or that.

Brahman is also beyond the senses

God or Ishvar is our Perception about that Truth .
Like YOur allah is your perception about that truth . your brahamn has attributes of being judgemental . (if you dont follow Quran you will be Punished in Hell)
Same is about Christian god . or say a hindu layman who prays an Idol which has Physical attributes .

Since it is difficult to Worship that shapless god . we need something which we can focus our sense organ, everyone has the freedom to see divinity in his creation and find his god .

here is a link to understand Advaita philosophy of hinduism (which is from Veda)

Advaita Fellowship
Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[roadrunner]

veda is the religious book of hindus .I have given the link of translated rig veda .. read it

It might be a religious book of Hinduism. However, Hindus do not have anything to do with Vedism. They have a hundred other books that contradict it. One example is cow eating. If you followed Vedism, you should be slaughtering the cow, and eating it merrily. Why is the cow held to be sacred in Hinduism then?

I think the confusion is in your mind because you know nothing about hindusim ( vedism )

I've given you the argument. Prove it wrong.

these philosophical thinkings keeps on reforming themselves and have diffrent interpretation by diffrent ppl . some Hindus still eat Meat and others are vegetarians .

The cow is sacred in Hinduism. Some states in India have banned its slaughter. Do you deny this?

There is no Final authority like Pope or Imam in Hindusim because it is against the basic principle of Hindusim which is the freedom of an individual to search for truth hence There is No concept of BANNING in Hindusim.

There is no final authority in Islam like a Pope either. However there is such a thing as banning in Hinduism.

And why is Professor Jha's book causing such an noise in India if cows are not sacred.

Here's some Hindu scripture references.

"The guilt incurred by a beastial crime with a cow, has been explained by the rule regarding the killing of a female of he Sudra Caste"
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/dharma/vash4.asp


Cows are considered sacred by many of India's Hindus.
BBC NEWS | World | South Asia | India targets cow slaughter

Do you deny the cow is sacred in Hinduism still?

I can prove to you the cow was not sacred in Vedism if you like.

can you plz tell me , which verses have been Banned

I didn't say any verses had been banned. I said cow slaughter had been banned in several states in India.

As I said , you are ignorant about the Hindusim , what you know is from your precpetion which is made by , your society and your education system

Prove me wrong then.

Vedism and hindusim is like Quranism and Islam - both are same

No. Vedism and Hindusm are like Judaism and Islam. Recognized as completely different religions!

 

[roadrunner]

I've found a better quote from the Mahabharata.

"All that kill, eat and permit the killing of cows rot in hell for as many years as there are hairs on the body of the cow so slain"
"Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah"

Do you still deny that Hinduism does not allow the killing or eating of cows in its holiest scriptures?

Do you still want the Vedic (Rig) scriptures that permit cow eating and slaughter?

All this proves that Vedism and Hinduism were two totally different religions. You cannot have such contradictions in a religion or a philosophy.

 

[Logic note]

It might be a religious book of Hinduism

Good, so there is Progress in reformation

However, Hindus do not have anything to do with Vedism. They have a hundred other books that contradict it

First, there is nothing , as vedism
Secondly , you havent read any Veda nor do you understand Hinduism , so how can you say it is different from Teachings of Veda ? your perception?

Thirdly - Hinduism is what veda teaches , if you read veda and come and see the various schools of Hinduism , you will understand .

One example is cow eating. If you followed Vedism, you should be slaughtering the cow, and eating it merrily. Why is the cow held to be sacred in Hinduism then?

LOL , as i said you havent read anything about Rigveda . according to Rigveda , Cows are symbol of abundance, of the sanctity of all life and of the earth that gives much while asking nothing in return.

Rig Veda: She is like the mother of the cosmic Forces, the daughter of the cosmic Matter, the sister of cosmic Energy, the centre of the ambrosia. I address to men of wisdom --kill not her, the sinless inviolate cow.

The divine cow, herself is skilled in eloquence, gives speech to others, who comes surrounded by every kind of utterance, who helps me for my worship of the divine forces, it is only the fool that abandons her.

May cows come and bring us good fortune; let them stay in our cowsheds and be content in our company. May many colored cows bring here prolific milk for offerings to the resplendent Lord at many dawns.

The resplendent Lord bestows affluence on the devotee who offers worship and oblations. He takes not what belongs to the worshiper and gives him more; thereby increasing his wealth more and ever-more, he places the devotee in fortified positions, free from danger.

Let not the cows run away from us, let no thief carry them away; let no hostile weapon fall upon them. May the master of the cattle be long possessed of them, with the milk products of which he makes offerings and with which he serves the godly men.

Let not the cows fall a victim to the arrogant, dustspurning war-horse. Let them not fall into the hands of a butcher or his shop. Let the cattle of the man, the householder, move about freely and graze without fear.

May the cows be our affluence; may the resplendent Lord grant us cattle; may the cows yield food (milk and butter) of the first libation. These cows, O men, are sacred as the Lord resplendent Himself --the Lord whose blessings we crave for, with head and heart.

O cows, you strengthen even the worn-out and fatigued and make the unlovely beautiful to look on. Your lowing is auspicious, and makes my dwelling prosperous. Great is the abundance that is attributed to you in our religious ceremony.

May you, O cows, have many calves grazing upon good pastures and drinking pure water at accessible ponds. May no thief be your master. May no beast of prey assail you and may the dart of vital Lord never fall on you.

O resplendent Lord, a showerer of virility as you are, may we have by your blessings the sturdy bulls for insemination and let us have plenty of nourishment for the cows.

Rig veda viii , 102, 15-16; vi , 28, 1-8

I didn't say any verses had been banned. I said cow slaughter had been banned in several states in India.

Please dont lie, because thats not a good quality . you clearly said that certain verses have been banned . I am quoting what you posted

Rig Veda formed the religion of the Vedic people. This isn't the same as Hinduism. Beef eating was permitted for example in the Rig Veda, cows were slaughtered, but later books forbade the killing of cows..which is why it's been banned in several Indian states today. Also Vedism was a monotheistic religion, Hinduism isn't. There are verses from the Rig Veda that prove these are part of Vedism, but Hinduism has banned these. Therefore they're not the same religion. The Gangetic people have evolved the Vedic religion into something completely unrecognizeable.

Prove me wrong then.

I did .

No. Vedism and Hindusm are like Judaism and Islam. Recognized as completely different religions!

This clearly depicts your prejudice mentality . without knowing or understanding anything , you start criticising it .

 

[Flintlock]

RR, have you heard of Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj?

 

[roadrunner]

I meant Hinduism has banned what was permitted in the Rig Veda.

Rig Veda: She is like the mother of the cosmic Forces, the daughter of the cosmic Matter, the sister of cosmic Energy, the centre of the ambrosia. I address to men of wisdom --kill not her, the sinless inviolate cow.

This is based on a deliberate mistranslation. "The adjective Aghnya applied to the cow in the Rig Veda means a cow that was yielding milk and therefore not fit for being killed."

The divine cow, herself is skilled in eloquence, gives speech to others, who comes surrounded by every kind of utterance, who helps me for my worship of the divine forces, it is only the fool that abandons her.

The veneration of the cow is expected form an agricultural community like the Rig Vedic Aryans.

May cows come and bring us good fortune; let them stay in our cowsheds and be content in our company. May many colored cows bring here prolific milk for offerings to the resplendent Lord at many dawns.

Nothing here that says cows should not be eaten.

The resplendent Lord bestows affluence on the devotee who offers worship and oblations. He takes not what belongs to the worshiper and gives him more; thereby increasing his wealth more and ever-more, he places the devotee in fortified positions, free from danger.

Let not the cows run away from us, let no thief carry them away; let no hostile weapon fall upon them. May the master of the cattle be long possessed of them, with the milk products of which he makes offerings and with which he serves the godly men.

Let not the cows fall a victim to the arrogant, dustspurning war-horse. Let them not fall into the hands of a butcher or his shop. Let the cattle of the man, the householder, move about freely and graze without fear.

May the cows be our affluence; may the resplendent Lord grant us cattle; may the cows yield food (milk and butter) of the first libation. These cows, O men, are sacred as the Lord resplendent Himself --the Lord whose blessings we crave for, with head and heart.

O cows, you strengthen even the worn-out and fatigued and make the unlovely beautiful to look on. Your lowing is auspicious, and makes my dwelling prosperous. Great is the abundance that is attributed to you in our religious ceremony.

May you, O cows, have many calves grazing upon good pastures and drinking pure water at accessible ponds. May no thief be your master. May no beast of prey assail you and may the dart of vital Lord never fall on you.

O resplendent Lord, a showerer of virility as you are, may we have by your blessings the sturdy bulls for insemination and let us have plenty of nourishment for the cows.

Rig veda viii , 102, 15-16; vi , 28, 1-8

This refers to "aghnaya" cows. These cows that must not be slaughtered in the Rig Veda, because they are giving milk. You can see this is true from the quote "may the cows yield food (milk and butter) of the first libation. These cows, O men, are sacred as the Lord resplendent Himself ". Those sacred cattle are the ones yielding food (milk and butter). It's clearly stated there.
Further evidence..

"Those Cows who yield, (leave) unharmed, their nectar, Spouses of the Far-Strider, everyoung, united." RIG VEDA BOOK THREE

Obviously the Rig Veda distinguishes between "yielding cows" and ones to be slaughtered.

If this were not the case, and all cows were supposed not to be slaughtered then the Rig Veda would not make sense. Because it is clear cows (and ox) were to be slaughtered to please Agni.

"Cow was cut up with a sword or an axe"
"Agni fed on the ox and the barren cow"

 

[roadrunner]

RR, have you heard of Arya Samaj and Brahmo Samaj?

The Arya Samaj are not Hindus. From their website.

"Arya Samaj was founded in the pre-independence era of India. The purpose was to move the Hindu Dharma away from all the fictitious beliefs, and go back to the teachings of Vedas."

This suggests that the modern day Hinduism is based on fictitious beliefs, and is not the same as the Rig Veda.

A follower of Judaism might say exactly the same things about Islam. Or a follower of Islam might say exactly the same things about Judaism. Two different relgions.

 

[Logic note]

I meant Hinduism has banned what was permitted in the Rig Veda.

another lie .
You clearly said verses have been Banned

"Also Vedism was a monotheistic religion, Hinduism isn't. There are verses from the Rig Veda that prove these are part of Vedism, but Hinduism has banned these"

This is based on a deliberate mistranslation. "The adjective Aghnya applied to the cow in the Rig Veda means a cow that was yielding milk and therefore not fit for being killed."

Mistranslation ? is this your perception??

Aghnya is an adjective in Sanskrit which means ‘one who does not deserve to be killed’
why do you add this "cow that yields milk" ????
Seems you are stuck with your own perception and cant see truth

Nothing here that says cows should not be eaten.

LOL , where does it say , it should be or could be eaten?

Obviously the Rig Veda distinguishes between "yielding cows" and ones to be slaughtered.

Where ? Please show me ?
As I told you Aghnya is an Adjective, which means ‘one who does not deserve to be killed’
I have given you the link of Rig veda . Plz read it properly before you start forcing your biased views on anything.

If this were not the case, and all cows were supposed not to be slaughtered then the Rig Veda would not make sense. Because it is clear cows (and ox) were to be slaughtered to please Agni.

"Cow was cut up with a sword or an axe"
"Agni fed on the ox and the barren cow"

I gave you the Link of Rigveda .. and showed you what it says about the sacredness of cow . now you show me which verse , which Page of Rigveda .. dont just quote from thin air .

 

[Logic note]

The Arya Samaj are not Hindus. From their website.

"Arya Samaj was founded in the pre-independence era of India. The purpose was to move the Hindu Dharma away from all the fictitious beliefs, and go back to the teachings of Vedas."

This suggests that the modern day Hinduism is based on fictitious beliefs, and is not the same as the Rig Veda.

A follower of Judaism might say exactly the same things about Islam. Or a follower of Islam might say exactly the same things about Judaism. Two different relgions.

Seems that you have a very biased perception and hatred has made you blind. you cant even read from your own quote .

The purpose was to move the Hindu Dharma away from all the fictitious beliefs, and go back to the teachings of Vedas."

Its a Hindu Reformist Movement , whos main purpose is to Move the Hindu Dharma from fictitious belief .