Ancient History not Appreciated by Pakistanis?

[roadrunner]

PtbP, Alright..but that wasn't his question.

 

[Plasma]

You're safe. Rajput is an ethnic group. Hinduism places Rajputs into the Ksatriya caste. If you were a Hindu, you would be a Ksatriya caste. But since you are not, it doesn't apply to you.

In terms of being mixed with Hindus, you're right, Pakistanis are not mixed with Hindus. Their ancestries are non Hindu also (dare I say that word, but the Muhajirs are perhaps the only ones with Hindu ancestry in Pakistan - this might cause an uproar, so could be edited in future ).

Oh, alright. Thanks for the answer.

 

[Logic note]

Originally Posted by roadrunner View Post
You're safe. Rajput is an ethnic group. Hinduism places Rajputs into the Ksatriya caste. If you were a Hindu, you would be a Ksatriya caste. But since you are not, it doesn't apply to you.

In terms of being mixed with Hindus, you're right, Pakistanis are not mixed with Hindus. Their ancestries are non Hindu also (dare I say that word, but the Muhajirs are perhaps the only ones with Hindu ancestry in Pakistan - this might cause an uproar, so could be edited in future

Rajput is not an Ethinic Group .. its a caste in Hindu social Hierarchy which is based on your social work .

Brahman - Knoweldge seekers
Rajput of Khastriya - Wariors
Vaishya - Business Man or traders
Shdura - Rest Others

 

[Logic note]

The Indus civilization had a polytheistic religion. They worshipped gods and goddesses in male and female form. Certain animals and human figures were worshipped. A bust of a priest was found which means they had priests. The religion also had rituals and ceremonies. Many terra-cotta statues of Mother Goddess have been found and she was worshipped in nearly every home. A seal shows seated horned deity surrounded by wild animals which could be the Hindu god Shiva as Pasupati, Lord of Beast. This could have been the early religious practices of Hinduism.

Religion of Harrappan Civilisation is still a controversy , both the opinion, wether they were Hindu or non hindu, has not been proved .
but I think My Pakistani brothers have proved that they were not Hindu - great research work .

 

[UnitedPak]

The "Harappan Priest" could be a statue of anybody. They found a statue and knew next to nothing about it. Because of the pose the man had (eyes closed, respect comes to mind) they referred to him as a Priest.

As for worshipping, once again nothing can be said. Their texts have not been deciphered, so its all assumption.
The only thing we can say for sure is that Indus Valley existed, and Harappa and Mohenjo Daro were the centres of the civilisation. This can only be said because there is concrete proof. Information regarding their culture, religion, language and customs is most likely invented by people with agendas.

 

[UnitedPak]

This is the "priest" in question. The statue is displayed in a museum in Karachi I believe:

 

[roadrunner]

Rajput is not an Ethinic Group .. its a caste in Hindu social Hierarchy which is based on your social work .

Brahman - Knoweldge seekers
Rajput of Khastriya - Wariors
Vaishya - Business Man or traders
Shdura - Rest Others

Well you're just manipulating now. The middle caste are Ksatriya. The Rajput ethnic group fall into the Ksatriya caste. Rajput is not a caste, but it forms part of a caste.

Finding one statue of something you think is Hindu means nothing when you've got whole Buddha statues and scrolls, along with Vedic artifacts all over the country.

 

[Logic note]

Well you're just manipulating now. The middle caste are Ksatriya. The Rajput ethnic group fall into the Ksatriya caste. Rajput is not a caste, but it forms part of a caste.

Yes thats what i am saying . its not an ethinic group . its a part of HINDU CASTE System

Finding one statue of something you think is Hindu means nothing when you've got whole Buddha statues and scrolls, along with Vedic artifacts all over the country.

I clearly mentioned nothing has been established , there are various point of views.
it has not been proved thats its a hindu priest
it has not been proved that its not hindu
The "Harappan Priest" could be a statue of anybody. so you cant say its NOT a hindu priest

There are other evidences also . like

Seal of Pashupati.. in yogic postures
there s controversies about this also . so as i said nothing has been proved conclusively . but saying that it is defintly not hindu (without any concrete proof ) shows sign of immaturity
here is the link to read
Pashupati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Logic note]

In view of the large number of figurines found in the Indus valley, it has been suggested that the Harappan people worshipped a Mother goddess symbolizing fertility; however, this interpretation is not unanimously accepted. Some Indus valley seals show swastikas which are found in other later religions and mythologies. In the earlier phases of their culture, the Harappans buried their dead; however, later, especially in the cemetery H culture of the late Harrapan period, they also cremated their dead and buried the ashes in burial urns. Many Indus valley seals show animals; for example, a seal showing a figure seated in a yoga-like posture and surrounded by animals has been compared to the "lord of creatures," Pashupati.

The hands of Pashupati, in both seals, are resting on the his knees which is the traditional resting place for hands during meditation. However it is difficult to say with any confidence if the hands are in a particular hand posture, or mudra. On the Gundestrup Cauldron we find that Cernunnos's hands, instead of resting, are in fact holding the ram-horned serpent and the torque. Being a God so closely associated with fertility these could be representative of the male and female creative forces. Although Pashupati is holding nothing which indicates an association with fertility, he does display an erect penis, a symbol of what must, at least in part, be his association with fertility.

Today in India the God Shiva, of whom Pashupati is considered to be the proto-type , is offered worship through the linga (the phallus). In Shiavite temples what is more common than a statue of Shiva is a stone linga, usually with a yoni (the vulva). This is known as the Shivalinga and the first Shivalinga in existence, according to one legend, is said to have arose from the earth in the Sleshmantaka forest, the forest of Pashupati. W hat is believed to be Shivalingas have also been found in the Harappan remains, evidence that the cult of the linga has been practiced for thousands of years. The suggestion arising from this combination of references, both archaeological and mythical, is that like Cernunnos, Pashupati is a God of fertility.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes thats what i am saying . its not an ethinic group . its a part of HINDU CASTE System

ALL the people fall into somewhere within the Hindu caste system. Even the Orissans. But Rajput is still an ethnic group.

I clearly mentioned nothing has been established , there are various point of views.
it has not been proved thats its a hindu priest
it has not been proved that its not hindu
The "Harappan Priest" could be a statue of anybody. so you cant say its NOT a hindu priest

There are other evidences also . like

Seal of Pashupati.. in yogic postures
there s controversies about this also . so as i said nothing has been proved conclusively . but saying that it is defintly not hindu (without any concrete proof ) shows sign of immaturity
here is the link to read
Pashupati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

wiki is a weak link. And there was no significant presence of Hinduism in modern Pakistan. I'll post better proof than anything you've showed soon.

 

[Logic note]

ALL the people fall into somewhere within the Hindu caste system. Even the Orissans. But Rajput is still an ethnic group.

The term ethnic means of or pertaining to a group of people recognized as a class on the basis of certain distinctive characteristics such as religion, language, ancestry, culture or national origin.
Hence Rajput is not an ethinic group .

wiki is a weak link. And there was no significant presence of Hinduism in modern Pakistan. I'll post better proof than anything you've showed soon.

there is a very interesting book Men Beast and Zombie by Kenan Malik.plz read it once . he is a scientist . We belive, what we want to belive .
in a whole book we tend to highlight only those points which justifies our perception .

And there was no significant presence of Hinduism in modern Pakistan.

Lol , we all know why . they all have been chased out from the land of Pure
but do you remember Taxilla , Gandhara and Raja Porus ?

 

[Logic note]

And there was no significant presence of Hinduism in modern Pakistan.

Because they are not looked after and they are vanishing


Pakistan's ancient ruins fast disappearing
By Robert Birsel
Sun Mar 18, 2007

LAHORE, Pakistan (Reuters) - Many Pakistani archaeological sites from its thousands of years of rich history are crumbling away as officials tussle over who should look after them.

A cradle of ancient civilizations and crossroads of Greek, Buddhist, Hindu and Muslim cultures, Pakistan has a treasure-trove of ruins but many are being built over, pilfered by art thieves and villagers or succumbing to the elements.

The federal government's archaeology department has control over most of the country's main sites but provincial officials argue they should be in charge of looking after their ruins.

Orya Maqbool Jan, head of the Punjab provincial government's archaeology department, says the province has a history of conservation and preservation dating back to British colonial times at the beginning of the last century.

"But for the last 50 years things were shifted back to the federal government and Punjab was not given the responsibility of looking after its own heritage," Jan said in an interview in his office in the city of Lahore, the provincial capital.

Jan said federal authorities' neglect had led to the destruction of 32 sites in Punjab.

"People have razed them to the ground and built houses over them. It's a big loss."

Restoration efforts by federal authorities had also caused irrevocable damage, he said.

"The principles of conservation laid down by UNESCO have not been adhered to," he said.

"DONE NOTHING"

Three years ago, the federal government handed Jan's department responsibility for three sites -- the Mughal-era Shalimar Gardens in Lahore, the Lahore Fort and the Katas Raj Hindu temple.

Jan says he has improved the sites though he says up to half of his spending has gone on correcting the wrongdoing of the federal authorities. He says he wants to take over responsibility for all of the province's monuments.

Across town in his office in the huge Lahore Fort, federal government archaeological engineer Muhammad Tanweer scoffs at Jan's assertions.

"They've done no conservation work, no restoration work. They've not spent a single penny," Tanweer said.

"They've just done the gardens," he says, pointing to lawns inside the magnificent 500-year-old fort where school children in red and blue uniforms were playing.

Federal Minister of Culture Sayed Ghazi Gulab Jamal bristles when asked about Jan's criticism.

"The provincial government has not done a great job with what belongs to them," he said. But he said responsibility for more monuments could be handed over if provinces showed they could improve sites and had the capacity to handle more.

"The main aim of everyone is to conserve and improve the sites so if somebody else can show it, why not?"

NO PROTECTION

The federal government has 380 registered sites that it is responsible for.

But Pakistan's most prominent archaeologist, Ahmad Hassan Dani, said many more sites were not registered under a colonial-era act and they got no protection at all.

"There are so many monuments that have not been brought under that act," said Dani, who has worked as an archaeologist across South Asia since 1944.

"They are not looked after by them at all, in fact, they do not know about them at all," he said.

Only about a third of Pakistan's sites had been excavated, he said.

Villagers often looked after old mosques, but Buddhist and Hindu ruins were often pillaged by thieves supplying artefacts to the international black market, and picked over by people looking for masonry to build their homes, he said.

"They will disappear."

Dani said authorities should work together: "If the federal government can't look after them, then the provincial government can or the district council can."

Another huge problem for whoever is in charge is encroachment. Sites are meant to be protected by a 200-foot (60-meter) buffer zone but unregulated construction crowds many.

The ornate pavilions and fountains of the Shalimar Gardens, built by the Mughal emperor Shah Jahan in 1642, are an island of tranquillity in a traffic-clogged Lahore suburb.

Up to now, the garden's walls have kept out most of the din and fumes and kept at bay the sprawl of concrete and tarmac. But illegal construction up against the thick, white walls is causing flooding and damaging artwork inside the gardens, experts say.

Jan said 106 structures built illegally against the wall had been earmarked for demolition, but some residents said they would refuse to go.

"We'll set ourselves on fire in protest," said factory worker Mohammed Saeed who lives in tiny house in the shadow of the wall.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070319/...tan_ruins_dc_1

 

[roadrunner]

Three years ago, the federal government handed Jan's department responsibility for three sites -- the Mughal-era Shalimar Gardens in Lahore, the Lahore Fort and the Katas Raj Hindu temple.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070319/...tan_ruins_dc_1

Well Katasraj is a Vedic temple from around 800 BC, not a Hindu temple.

 

[Logic note]

Well Katasraj is a Vedic temple from around 800 BC, not a Hindu temple.

WOW thats new .. lol Vedic temple is differnt from Hindu Temple ????
where did u get this from ?

 

[roadrunner]

WOW thats new .. lol Vedic temple is differnt from Hindu Temple ????
where did u get this from ?

Read before. Vedism is a completely different religion to Hinduism of today.

Therefore Vedic temples are not Hindu temples.

It's like saying Jewish synagogues are the same as Islamic Mosques. Not even this in fact.