Anatomy of the Hatf-VIII Ra’ad Air Launched Cruise Missile

[Nigel Farrage]

And what is France doing by exporting Rafael to India ?

Likewise Russia exported Brahmos to India which is clear violation of MTCR. But.
زبردست کا ٹھینگا سر پہ.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Likewise Russia exported Brahmos to India which is clear violation of MTCR. But.
زبردست کا ٹھینگا سر پہ.

Brahmos doesn't exceed MTCR range.. It's a 290 km ranged missile...

The limit is 300.

 

[Blue Marlin]

If the PAF wants to design its own fighter, that's fine, but it needs to be done in a transparent process with informed and competent outside experts to ensure that the right requirements are being defined. If I were Prime Minister, I'd be working to ensure that Pakistan is a proactive independent state, and in turn, I'd want ever dollar to be spent ensuring that we get the most possible out of our defence programs. For me, a strategic role for the JF-17 is a must, and since we can't easily go back and change the fighter (best to focus on next-gen), we need a Ra'ad II.

really? the jf-17 must be a stretegic bird. do remember the raad is only carryed by the mirage v's only. the mirage 3 and the j-7's will be replaced by the jf-17. the 80 odd mirage-v and the 50 j7-pg's will be replaced by somthing else te f-16s are closed source bird so thats not gonna be used. so pakistan needs about 25 squadrons (450 birds) now add 20 more to reduce down time and for training and you hneed the best part of 470 fighters.
so they are ordering 250 jf-17's to replace the mirage III and the j7 (minus the pg variant)
about 76 f16's call it 100 as jordan may sell them and other countries may sell them too.thats 350 birds there
and you have not replaced the mirage v's or the j7-pg's which is about 130 birds total. which would be replaced by a fith gen bird.
so it would be about 350+130=480 which is a tad increase
as for what your saying about paf needing to invest in its own resources is nothing new as the current acm said that in an interview which you may have been influenced from. as for a raad 2.0 its more of a case of do they need it? and the answer is yes but not now. the mirage is being replaced by fith gen bird so they would nne to be an alcm that would fit internally. i would say look at the som missile for "influence". as for shorter ranged alcm? the c802 would do just fine after a software change.
@Bilal Khan 777 what do you think?

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

really? the jf-17 must be a stretegic bird. do remember the raad is only carryed by the mirage v's only. the mirage 3 and the j-7's will be replaced by the jf-17. the 80 odd mirage-v and the 50 j7-pg's will be replaced by somthing else te f-16s are closed source bird so thats not gonna be used. so pakistan needs about 25 squadrons (450 birds) now add 20 more to reduce down time and for training and you hneed the best part of 470 fighters.
so they are ordering 250 jf-17's to replace the mirage III and the j7 (minus the pg variant)
about 76 f16's call it 100 as jordan may sell them and other countries may sell them too.thats 350 birds there
and you have not replaced the mirage v's or the j7-pg's which is about 130 birds total. which would be replaced by a fith gen bird.
so it would be about 350+130=480 which is a tad increase
as for what your saying about paf needing to invest in its own resources is nothing new as the current acm said that in an interview which you may have been influenced from. as for a raad 2.0 its more of a case of do they need it? and the answer is yes but not now. the mirage is being replaced by fith gen bird so they would nne to be an alcm that would fit internally. i would say look at the som missile for "influence". as for shorter ranged alcm? the c802 would do just fine after a software change.
@Bilal Khan 777 what do you think?

Brother, I come here with a positive spirit to share information, but some naysayers don't want me or my opinion here. I wish them best of luck.

 

[MastanKhan]

This is blasphemy.
PAF did great job despite they are lacking in every field they don't have bigger new fleet their enemy is much larger.

Sir,

They allowed their enemy to get larger---they allowed their enemy to come in and destroy the nations assets---not once but three times---.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Sir,

They allowed their enemy to get larger---they allowed their enemy to come in and destroy the nations assets---not once but three times---.

Why is the baby still crying?

This is circular logic, sir ("this is not PAF's conclusion, therefore it is just an opinion"). You haven't conclusively addressed @MastanKhan's opinion on its own merits.

Secondly, even the PAF's determination of policy is ultimately just an opinion, albeit an informed one, but an opinion all the same. Some here are asking, why wasn't the JF-17 prepared for the strategic role?

Think about it... Here the PAF acquired a platform using hundreds of millions of dollars - if not a billion-plus dollars - of public funds, i.e. funds that ultimately belong to the whole nation, not just any one institution or group.

Moreover, the JF-17 has literally ended up as the only new platform that the PAF is inducting and is capable of configuring to its needs, with nothing else in the pipe. So now the question, why didn't the PAF anticipate a strategic role for the JF-17, i.e. the one platform it can induct and has control over?

You might be miffed by such questioning, but this is part and parcel of what should be a functional state, one built upon accountability and efficiency. Microsoft, Apple, Google, etc, are run by technology experts, but you do realize they answer to the board of directors, who in turn represent the shareholders who actually fund those companies' programs?

Many of us might not be experts (though some here actually are, albeit civilian and not military), but we are certainly shareholders with a right to hold those who use our tax money (well, at least my family's tax money) accountable. The PAF might be correct in the end, but you need to demonstrate that with facts and figures, not "we said so, therefore we are right." Nawaz Sharif could say the same about spending money on a bridge only useful to wild goats, doesn't make him right.

My dear, a lot of good points are lost in acerbity, attacks and sarcasm. Sometimes we are forced to keep information from you here, and after all, most of you are civilian enthusiasts only. Regarding accountability, i now reserve my comment. If any of you can really wake up at at 4AM to reach a flight line or ready room, you can come make us accountable.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Brother, I come here with a positive spirit to share information, but some naysayers don't want me or my opinion here. I wish them best of luck.

haters gonna hate. but what i find strange is that "other" think thereaare right against someone whos actually been in the airforce. i dont like sh!t stiring but i have a weird feeling he got rejected by the airforce. i have never seen a pakistani been so negative against the airfore of his own country. sure its good to be critical but when one compares cars to planes as an arguement in a smooth tone then theres a problem. personally put him in your ignore list and move on. no need to lose your sleep over it, just ignore them and share what you want where necessary and its happy days. and if they quote you wont know they they are being ignored and you wont se their messages. end of really.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Brahmos doesn't exceed MTCR range.. It's a 290 km ranged missile...

The limit is 300.

it depends on how 290 km is defined. the rocket motor will last till 290 km and it will glide for no more than 10 km. thats why mtcr missiles will be at 290 km max

And what is France doing by exporting Rafael to India ?

thats been delayed. visit the dassault rafale thread in the indian section. they talk a lot about specifics. im suprised you have not been there to have a little peak. its really interesting.

 

[Quwa]

@Blue Marlin I look at it from the standpoint that the JF-17 is going to be the most pervasive fighter in the PAF. Why wouldn't you want to draw the maximum flexibility of such an arrangement, i.e. be able to position theoretically any JF-17 squadron for any role within what is capable of the fighter? For example, if Southern Air Command required more anti-ship capable fighters, the other areas could provide JF-17s, and SAC would have no trouble absorbing them. Why wouldn't you want to extend this advantage to strategic munitions?

My dear, a lot of good points are lost in acerbity, attacks and sarcasm. Sometimes we are forced to keep information from you here, and after all, most of you are civilian enthusiasts only. Regarding accountability, i now reserve my comment. If any of you can really wake up at at 4AM to reach a flight line or ready room, you can come make us accountable.

Sir with all due respect. You signed onto waking up at 4AM and reaching a flight line, and the nation gave you not just a wage, but an actual life and career as compensation. You serve the nation sir, and the nation can demand you be held accountable. Don't be offended, I apply this very same rule to every single public servant and official, and I am much harsher on this front with our politicians (who have fundamentally failed the country).

I don't say this as an outsider. My father is a retired PAF officer, and there is no doubt that this fact gave me a huge advantage in life in many areas, and despite all the problems or issues, I owe the people of Pakistan for being a meaningful contributor to my successful life.

We can continue discussing this based on facts and with the aim of examining arguments for what they are, or we can continue reminding one another who owes what and why.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I give a sh-it about the ranking / rating---I am just waiting for my time on the TV---so that I can show your real face to pakistan and show the traitors that you are---.

Sonny boy---I will rake you thru hot coals----and char you---either you will kill me or I will totally destroy your reputation.

By the way---were you a part of the traitors of paf that allowed the Atlantique to fly without an escort---knowing very well that it was vulnerable to the enemy---and flying to its certain death?

Do you have the blood of 39 dead navy officers at your hands---?

Do you also have the blood of dead airmen at the Badaber air base and kamra and Karachi air base as well---.

Were you also a part of those traitors responsible for the destruction of national assets?

what makes you think that the pakistan airforce or bilal here will go on tv to discus the role and the policies of the airforce?

was bilal was in the airforce not the air naval arm so how can he have blood on his hand for the death of 39 people?

just put him in your ignore list and thats the end of it.
its embarrasing watching to people argue like kids. especailly if there seniors.

@Blue Marlin I look at it from the standpoint that the JF-17 is going to be the most pervasive fighter in the PAF. Why wouldn't you want to draw the maximum flexibility of such an arrangement, i.e. be able to position theoretically any JF-17 squadron for any role within what is capable of the fighter? For example, if Southern Air Command required more anti-ship capable fighters, the other areas could provide JF-17s, and SAC would have no trouble absorbing them. Why wouldn't you want to extend this to strategic munitions?

the jf-17 can hold the c802, but not the raad for simple reason being its does not need to. why? the mirage v can hold them and theres not shortage of them. remembere its a nucear stand of weapon. the mirage is able to fly very low and deleiver the "package" which it can do and was upgraded in the rose program to do so. whilst the jf-17 hasnt been upgraded for that purpose.

 

[punit]

Some people are trying hard to prove that Ra'ad is actualy a failed project may be an attempt by Indians to get the real Info...I confirmed two years back from my neighbor in Pakistan he told me he himself fly JF-17 with mockups of Ra'ad missile with different configurations.

I will ask him to join this forum and explain it further.

@JamD
Look at this picture where tail fins of Ra'ad trimed down

you joined yesterday right ? @Irfan Baloch !

 

[Nigel Farrage]

Brahmos doesn't exceed MTCR range.. It's a 290 km ranged missile...

The limit is 300.

Tell that to Indians who claim the actual range is much larger and that it carries nuclear weapons.
Exporting a missile capable of carrying nuclear weapons is against MTCR.
UNLESS you are USA exporting Trident to UK.

 

[Quwa]

the jf-17 can hold the c802, but not the raad for simple reason being its does not need to. why? the mirage v can hold them and theres not shortage of them. remembere its a nucear stand of weapon. the mirage is able to fly very low and deleiver the "package" which it can do and was upgraded in the rose program to do so. whilst the jf-17 hasnt been upgraded for that purpose.

I understand that the PAF defined the JF-17's SOW capacity to conventional warfare, fair, the question I and some others have is, why not strategic? Yes, the Mirage ROSE can do it ... for now. The Mirage is a much older platform and it will not be long before it is retired. Granted the PAF could maintain a small number for strategic usage into the 2020s, but isn't that a bit of a limitation? Isn't one of the main advantages of having tactical warheads the ability to potentially distribute those warheads across a wider deployment net? Configuring the JF-17 for the strategic role gives the PAF its widest deployment net possible.

 

[Nigel Farrage]

The OP should run his calculations again by comparing C-802 with Raad in terms of dimensions.
If Jf-17 can carry a 6+ meter long missile the C-802, it should be able to carry a 4.8 meter long missile.

 

[MastanKhan]

what makes you think that the pakistan airforce or bilal here will go on tv to discus the role and the policies of the airforce?

was bilal was in the airforce not the air naval arm so how can he have blood on his hand for the death of 39 people?

just put him in your ignore list and thats the end of it.
its embarrasing watching to people argue like kids. especailly if there seniors.


the jf-17 can hold the c802, but not the raad for simple reason being its does not need to. why? the mirage v can hold them and theres not shortage of them. remembere its a nucear stand of weapon. the mirage is able to fly very low and deleiver the "package" which it can do and was upgraded in the rose program to do so. whilst the jf-17 hasnt been upgraded for that purpose.

Hi,

I am just asking if he was involved with any of those locations---he can say yeah or nay.

The paf does not need to come in front of the camera----it is me---who has to get in front of the camera---and that is all---I will take it from there.