An interesting incident from Indo-Pak war 1965

[Hamza913]

And where does GB comes to picture there?

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Quoted from UCLA Indologist and historian Stanley Wopert:
"In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw when the embargo placed by Washington on U.S. ammunition and replacements for both armies forced cessation of conflict before either side won a clear victory. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin. "
Excerpt from his work India
http://publishedstories.info/a-new-history-of-india-find-book-groups-stanley-a-wolpert.pdf

Assessment by the US Library of Congress Country Studies:
"The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy—on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan's army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country's military defeat by "Hindu India" and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government"

From A Region in Turmoil: South Asian Conflicts Since 1947 by Robert Johnson:
India's strategic aims were modest – it aimed to deny Pakistani Army victory, although it ended up in possession of 720 square miles (1,900 km2) of Pakistani territory for the loss of just 220 square miles (570 km2) of its own.

These are just a few. There are plenty more neutral assessments of the war, none of which support Pakistan. The question is can you provide even a single source to support your claims? But then again I am probably wasting your time since you do not want to see anything that goes against your preconceived notions @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

Clicked on the link, it's nothing but a reference list. Need to do better than that........

Also, you said there is plenty more evidence, please link them then........

 

[Chhatrapati]

I. Named. Multiple.

There are only Four Kingdoms that ruled more than half or nearly the entire subcontinent.
1. Mauryans

2. Guptas

3. Delhi Sultanates

4. Mughals

The invaders from the West made temporary capital in today's Pakistan but eventually shifted to a secure location in UP/Delhi or far up to Bengal.

No, it's based on lineage AND culture, and not just the lineage of your paternal side (although that is typically what people identify with).

And there is no evidence for Tipu calling himself a Mughal or Turkik he probably thought himself to be an Arab. Or maybe even South Indian.

Have you seen his portraits lol?

In the portraits he look brown to shades of brown. Have you seen Arabs?

I thought so.

 

[Hamza913]

There are only Four Kingdoms that ruled more than half or nearly the entire subcontinent.

Akbar was born in Umerkot, Kanishka was born in Peshawar, and Menander was born in Sialkot. All three of them ruled vast portions of the region, with Kanishka and Menander both making the cities they were born in their capitals, and Akbar also made Lahore his capital for a brief period of time.

And there is no evidence for Tipu calling himself a Mughal or Turkik he probably thought himself to be an Arab. Or maybe even South Indian.

Like most other rulers of the time, he probably identified as Muslim first and foremost. This opinion is strengthened by the fact that he was educated in fiqh, as well as his pretty violent tendencies towards Brahmins.

In the portraits he look brown to shades of brown. Have you seen Arabs?

He doesn't look Arab kek.

I thought so.

The fact that you're still barking about this is downright hilarious considering it's a folk story among GB people too, AS MY SOURCES CLEARLY STATE.

 

[nahtanbob]

And how do you define winning a war?

1965 war was a loss for pakistan. pakistani economy sputtered. The economic edge over India dissipated

 

[Arsalan 345]

Of course we do. That's why we had to clip you down to manageable geography at the very first chance.


Maybe and Pakistan kindly obliged despite starting the war.

Not may be, it's a reality.

I was referring to this one.
Bhutto calling India "mighty".

And comparing Pak to tiny States like Denmark. And remember this included both East and West Pak.

Lol. Every war you've lost and run. It's just a fact of history. Look at neutral sources.

You asked for cease fire first in 65. You can't change history my friend.65 is considered our Victory based on your poor decision of ceasefire.

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Lol.
1 PARA had only 9 fatal casualties in the entire 1965 war with highest on one day being 4-5.

Yes only 9. others were mere car accidents and suicides

https://twitter.com/x/status/1142464514367115266

too much similarity with recent Mi17 kill

 

[Jackdaws]

Not may be, it's a reality.



You asked for cease fire first in 65. You can't change history my friend.65 is considered our Victory based on your poor decision of ceasefire.

My friend, but when did we ever ask for one? The video speaks for itself.
Every neutral account of the war states that you were on the verge of losing. It's as absurd as India claiming victory in the war with China. We lost in 1962 and it was and is a huge embrassment. But it is what it is.

 

[Chhatrapati]

You asked for cease fire first in 65. You can't change history my friend.65 is considered our Victory based on your poor decision of ceasefire.

It's Bhutto who asked to save small Pakistan from Mighty India.

 

[Reichsmarschall]

for the morons who think they conquered Lahore

Ride of the general who conquered Lahore

What Indian historian said about 1965

Inside Story: Pakistan Army at the Gates of Delhi in 1965 War?
"...a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance." 1965 WAR-The Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

As Pakistanis honor the memory of their 1965 war heroes on Defense of Pakistan Day today, let us review some snippets of how the war looked from the other side. R.D. Pradhan and Harbakhsh Singh were both insiders who participated in the 1965 India-Pakistan war. While Pradhan was a civilian working for Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan, General Harbakhash Singh was commanding Indian troops on the front-lines. Both have written books drawing upon their first-hand knowledge of how the war started, unfolded and ended in September, 1965.

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic" of his book "1965 War-The Inside Story", R.D. Pradhan describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When Pakistan Defense Forces counter-attacked the intruding Indian military and the general was fired upon on Sept 6, 1965, he "ran away". Here's an excerpt:

"On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga (Nissan P60 Jeep) to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

Chapter 12 of Pradhan's book is titled "Retreat to Beas" in which there is detailed discussion of Indian COAS's proposal for the Indian Army to retreat behind Beas in the face of Pakistan's fierce counter-attacks after India's attempted incursion in Lahore. Pradhan argues in this chapter that during the 1965 war with Pakistan, Indian COAS General Chaudhuri feared that "a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance".

Pradhan's book contains many different entries by Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan. A Sept 9, 1965 entry reads:

Had a very hard day on all fronts. Very fierce counter-attacks mounted and we are required to withdraw in Kasur area. COAS was somewhat uncertain of himself. I suggested to him that he should go in forward areas so that he will be in touch of realities. He said he would go next day.

In Line of Duty: A Soldier Remembers, according to Shekhar Gupta, the editor of Indian Express, Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh reveals that not only "did Gen Chowdhury play a very small role in the entire campaign, he was so nervous as to be on the verge of losing half of Punjab to Pakistan, including the city of Amritsar. Harbakhsh describes, in clinical detail, how our own offensive in the Lahore sector had come unhinged. The general commanding the division on Ichchogil canal fled in panic, leaving his jeep, its wireless running and the briefcase containing sensitive documents that were then routinely read on Radio Pakistan during the war. Singh wanted to court martial him, Chowdhury let him get away with resignation".

According to Shekhar Gupta, Harbkhash Singh recounts that a bigger disaster struck a bit to the south where the other division cracked up in assault, just as it encountered a bit of resistance. Several infantry battalions, short on battle inoculation, deserted and Singh gives a hair-raising account – and confirmation of a long-debated rumor – that Chowdhury panicked so badly he ordered him to withdraw to a new defensive line behind the Beas, thereby conceding half of Punjab to Pakistan. Singh describes the conversation with Chowdhury at Ambala where he refused to carry out the order, asking his chief to either put it down in writing or visit the front and take charge of the battle.

Beyond the Indian insiders quoted above, here is how several non-Pakistani journalists have covered the war:

The London Daily Mirror reported in 1965:

"There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop.

"During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis"

"India", said the London Daily Times, "is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces."

In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote:

"Who can defeat a nation which knows how to play hide and seek with death".

USA - Aviation week - December 1968 issue:

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

India was the first to accept UN sponsored ceasefire (page 100 of RD Pradhan's book) on Sept 21 followed by Pakistan on Sept 22, bringing the 1965 war to an end on Sept 22, 1965. As the ceasefire took effect, Indian Defense Y.B. Chavan wrote in his diary as follows:

"The ball is now in the political court again--where it should be--and not in the military one. I hope we have the vision and courage to (our) political leadership."

Alas, the core issue of Kashmir still remains unresolved 48 years since Mr. Chavan wrote his words of wisdom.

 

[Hamza913]

The economic edge over India dissipated

Not at all, India's GDP per capita didn't surpass Pakistan's until the 21st century.

 

[Tejas Spokesman]

for the morons who think they conquered Lahore
View attachment 567442 View attachment 567443 View attachment 567444 View attachment 567445


Ride of the general who conquered Lahore

What Indian historian said about 1965

Inside Story: Pakistan Army at the Gates of Delhi in 1965 War?
"...a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance." 1965 WAR-The Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

As Pakistanis honor the memory of their 1965 war heroes on Defense of Pakistan Day today, let us review some snippets of how the war looked from the other side. R.D. Pradhan and Harbakhsh Singh were both insiders who participated in the 1965 India-Pakistan war. While Pradhan was a civilian working for Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan, General Harbakhash Singh was commanding Indian troops on the front-lines. Both have written books drawing upon their first-hand knowledge of how the war started, unfolded and ended in September, 1965.

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic" of his book "1965 War-The Inside Story", R.D. Pradhan describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When Pakistan Defense Forces counter-attacked the intruding Indian military and the general was fired upon on Sept 6, 1965, he "ran away". Here's an excerpt:

"On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga (Nissan P60 Jeep) to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

Chapter 12 of Pradhan's book is titled "Retreat to Beas" in which there is detailed discussion of Indian COAS's proposal for the Indian Army to retreat behind Beas in the face of Pakistan's fierce counter-attacks after India's attempted incursion in Lahore. Pradhan argues in this chapter that during the 1965 war with Pakistan, Indian COAS General Chaudhuri feared that "a major battle the west of the Beas would end in the destruction of the Indian Army and thereafter allow the enemy (Pakistani) forces to push to the gates of Delhi without much resistance".

Pradhan's book contains many different entries by Indian Defense Minister Y.B. Chavan. A Sept 9, 1965 entry reads:

Had a very hard day on all fronts. Very fierce counter-attacks mounted and we are required to withdraw in Kasur area. COAS was somewhat uncertain of himself. I suggested to him that he should go in forward areas so that he will be in touch of realities. He said he would go next day.

In Line of Duty: A Soldier Remembers, according to Shekhar Gupta, the editor of Indian Express, Lt Gen Harbakhsh Singh reveals that not only "did Gen Chowdhury play a very small role in the entire campaign, he was so nervous as to be on the verge of losing half of Punjab to Pakistan, including the city of Amritsar. Harbakhsh describes, in clinical detail, how our own offensive in the Lahore sector had come unhinged. The general commanding the division on Ichchogil canal fled in panic, leaving his jeep, its wireless running and the briefcase containing sensitive documents that were then routinely read on Radio Pakistan during the war. Singh wanted to court martial him, Chowdhury let him get away with resignation".

According to Shekhar Gupta, Harbkhash Singh recounts that a bigger disaster struck a bit to the south where the other division cracked up in assault, just as it encountered a bit of resistance. Several infantry battalions, short on battle inoculation, deserted and Singh gives a hair-raising account – and confirmation of a long-debated rumor – that Chowdhury panicked so badly he ordered him to withdraw to a new defensive line behind the Beas, thereby conceding half of Punjab to Pakistan. Singh describes the conversation with Chowdhury at Ambala where he refused to carry out the order, asking his chief to either put it down in writing or visit the front and take charge of the battle.

Beyond the Indian insiders quoted above, here is how several non-Pakistani journalists have covered the war:

The London Daily Mirror reported in 1965:

"There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop.

"During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis"

"India", said the London Daily Times, "is being soundly beaten by a nation which is outnumbered by four and a half to one in population and three to one in size of armed forces."

In Times reporter Louis Karrar wrote:

"Who can defeat a nation which knows how to play hide and seek with death".

USA - Aviation week - December 1968 issue:

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

India was the first to accept UN sponsored ceasefire (page 100 of RD Pradhan's book) on Sept 21 followed by Pakistan on Sept 22, bringing the 1965 war to an end on Sept 22, 1965. As the ceasefire took effect, Indian Defense Y.B. Chavan wrote in his diary as follows:

"The ball is now in the political court again--where it should be--and not in the military one. I hope we have the vision and courage to (our) political leadership."

Alas, the core issue of Kashmir still remains unresolved 48 years since Mr. Chavan wrote his words of wisdom.

Lol.
Frist part is from PAF paid author John Fricker.
It's like if Indians quote David Frawley on 1965 war.


And May Gen Prasad did better than Maj Gen Nisar Khan who lost not only his jeep in Asal Uttar but also his deputy Brigadier AR Shami died

 

[Chhatrapati]

Akbar was born in Umerkot, Kanishka was born in Peshawar, and Menander was born in Sialkot. All three of them ruled vast portions of the region, with Kanishka and Menander both making the cities they were born in their capitals, and Akbar also made Lahore his capital for a brief period of time.

It doesn't matter where they are born. What matters is which region they choose as capital. Yeah, ruled over Punjab for a brief period of time and then moved to Agra. Kanishka didn't rule beyond Vindhya. Or to the western ghats. His rule was limited to parts of North West and North India.

He doesn't look Arab kek.

Of course his family probably mixed with locals. But again, that's not his photograph but paintings. And the Arabs looked like this, it ain't much different from features of Tipu.

The fact that you're still barking about this is downright hilarious considering it's a folk story among GB people too, AS MY SOURCES CLEARLY STATE.

From what I read, it was written by Tibetans. Ramayana is a folkstory among Thai people, but it's not theirs.

 

[Hamza913]

It doesn't matter where they are born

Rofl what?

What matters is which region they choose as capital.

And they all made cities in what is now Pakistan their capital, and ruled over vast portions of the sub-continent. But of course, you will continue to deny it because you can't handle this.

Arabs looked like this, it ain't much different from features of Tipu.

Your eyes are impaired.

From what I read

Read more.

 

[JohnWick]

Lol.
Frist part is from PAF paid author John Fricker.
It's like if Indians quote David Frawley on 1965 war.


And May Gen Prasad did better than Maj Gen Nisar Khan who lost not only his jeep in Asal Uttar but also his deputy Brigadier AR Shami died

Lol multiple ID troll rat...
@Tejas Spokesman
@Tejas Spokseman
Always the same trolling since 1965 just like as the FAKE shoot down of F-16.....but in reality Abhi can not save his ****.....