An Article about the Hazaras

[Kabira]

^^
Quetta is pashtun majority city though, strange place to escape from one set of pashtuns to another.

 

[Yazp]

^^
Quetta is pashtun majority city though, strange place to escape from one set of pashtuns to another.

We wanted to get away from Abdur Rahman, Not from Pashtuns. We're okay with them aslong as they aren't extremists.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

@DESERT FIGHTER
@Eagleye
@Dr. Stranglove
@pak-marine
@WAJsal
@Atanz
@Nilesh Singh
I don't know if you guys might be interested, But I'll tag you anyway!
Have any questions? Ask away!

I'm frm quetta and have plenty of Hazara frnds ..

 

[Kambojaric]

Informative thread @Yazp . I am curious to know whether any Mongolian words have survived in the Dari spoken by the Hazara people?

 

[Yazp]

@Yazp When did Hazaras converted to Shia sect of Islam and by whom?........we know that Iranians (who were hanafi muslims before safavids) were forcibly converted to Shia sect by Shah Ismael Safvi, what about hazaras?......... The more traditional and known desendents of Mongols i.e Mughals, Uzbeks, Tatars etc, are/were Sunni musalman from hanafi school of thought

Originally Halagu Khan was brought up as a Christian. Later on before he died he converted to Bhuddism.
The Hazaras, as I mentioned before converted to Shia Islam alongside Ghazan the Great in 1295. Way before the Safavids.
And for the second part of your question;
Mughals are not Mongols, Nor are Uzbeks or Tataris. All are Turkic, however there is no doubt that they were a part of Ghengeis Khans army (After Ghengeis had to fight them and kill their rebellious leaders, The Tatars were the First enemy of Ghengeis Khan. We fought them to unify Mongolia under one leader, which they did not want.) Mughals are descendants of the Uzbeks who adopted Persian culture.
The Uzbeks and Tatars are more or less similar to one another. The Tatars have 30 tribes, Uzbeks have 92 tribes, The Hazaras have 5 Original tribes.
I do not know who on earth told you Uzbeks, Mughals and Tataris were Mongol...
The way these Turans and Turks balantly take credit for our history is just plain evil.

Informative thread @Yazp . I am curious to know whether any Mongolian words have survived in the Dari spoken by the Hazara people?

Yes, there are many words which are Mongolian which has survived in Hazargi, our dialect of Dari!

 

[Kabira]

Ghazan indeed converted to Shia-ism, but what has those Mongol rulers of Iran any thing to do with Hazaras of central Afghanistan?...........any source to confirm the claim that those Mongol rulers of Iran migrated to central Afghanistan?

Arghuns, Uzbeks, Mughals and Tatars have actually known history and more relavence to Mongols as compared to Hazaras. Its even possible that Hazaras might be the remnants of those Persians of central Afghanistan, killed and raped by Mongols of Genghis Khan. The unfortunate people of Bamiyan and other regions of central afghanistan were not spared , but Mongols were known to take their women as concubines or wives, after killing their husbands..........Hazaras must be descendents of those unfortunate persian women forcibly taken. There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.

Demographics of Central Asia got totally changed after Mongol invasion, the old Turanis were more akin to Persians by race.... while nowdays Turks of central asia are calling themselves Turks due to langauge but are mostly Mongol in genetics.

Uzbek Khan or Oz Beg Khan was the Khan of golden horde of Mongols. Tatar is generic term for Mongols, particularly of Golden horde, who settled in Crimea and Volga regions. Mughals or Barlas was a Mongol tribe. All of these got Turkified. While Hazaras, unlike Chaughtais, have Persian blood in them i.e they are Persio-Mongols instead of Turko-Mongols who dominate central asia.

Hazaras have both Mongol male and female linages (unlike other central asians with mongloid ancestry), so they are not product of rape but direct descendants.

 

[Yazp]

rulers of Iran any thing to do with Hazaras of central Afghanistan?...........any source to confirm the claim that those Mongol rulers of Iran migrated to central Afghanistan?

Arghuns, Uzbeks, Mughals and Tatars have actually known history and more relavence to Mongols as compared to Hazaras. Its even possible that Hazaras might be the remnants of those Persians of central Afghanistan, killed and raped by Mongols of Genghis Khan. The unfortunate people of Bamiyan and other regions of central afghanistan were not spared , but Mongols were known to take their women as concubines or wives, after killing their husbands..........Hazaras must be descendents of those unfortunate persian women forcibly taken. There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.

Demographics of Central Asia got totally changed after Mongol invasion, the old Turanis were more akin to Persians by race.... while nowdays Turks of central asia are calling themselves Turks due to langauge but are mostly Mongol in genetics.

Uzbek Khan or Oz Beg Khan was the Khan of golden horde of Mongols. Tatar is generic term for Mongols, particularly of Golden horde, who settled in Crimea and Volga regions. Mughals or Barlas was a Mongol tribe. All of these got Turkified. While Hazaras, unlike Chaughtais, have Persian blood in them i.e they are Persio-Mongols instead of Turko-Mongols who dominate central asia.

We are remnants of his MILITARY GARRISONS in Afghanistan. When news broke out that the Khan had converted, we converted aswell. All Mongolid people in Afghanistan, we call ourselves Hazaras. The Tajiks are Iranic, Uzbeks are Turkic, Pashtuns are Hellenic/Slavic? ? or Jewish.

Now you're coming down to relevance. Uzbeks, Tatars or Mughals are NOT Mongols. Uzbeks and Tartans are TURKIC. Just like the Kazakhs, Nogais, Anatolians, Crimeans, ect. And like most Turks, like to align themselves with Mongols. Heck there are those Turan Turkleri guys who even count the Finns as Turks.

Perso-Mongols???
I am not aware of any Hazaras who have married any Persians. Perhaps the ones in Iran may have, but in our culture we prefer to marry within ourselves, mostly marriages take place between different Tribes of Hazaras.
I'll show you some documents and DNA tests to make you understand that the two people with the most common blood in Asia are Hazaras and the Mongols in Mongolia.

There is a reason why their social status is relatively lower than turko-mongol communities like uzbeks and other neighbouring groups like Tajiks.

Who said that?
Lower than Tajiks and Uzbeks???
Have you ever even seen the border of Afghanistan? Let alone go inside it?

I do not know where you're bringing all these "facts" from, but wherever you're getting them from, keep going. They're amusing.

 

[Yazp]

DNA Research on the Hazaras:

Ghengeis Khan created the greatest land empire that has ever existed, stretching from the Pacific to Europe. In the process, a large number of his enemies, particularly the men, were killed. He himself is reported to have 4 wives and many concubines, and after his death his brothers and several of his sons and, subsequently, grandsons received apanages and ruled large sections of his empire, but his later descendants are less reliably documented/ The Major part of the Y chromosome shows male specefic inheritance and thus male lineages can be traced using Y chromosomal DNA variants. Furthermore the accumulation of variation at rapidly mutating loci can be used to identify the time and place of origin of a linage. We have identified a Y lineage which probably arose in Mongolia about 900 years ago and has spread with unprecedented speed over a vast geographical area to form about 9% of the comtempoary Y lineages in a large part of Central and Eastern Asia. We use genealogical evidence from the Hazaras to link this lineage to Ghengeis Khan.


In surveys of DNA variation in Central Asia, Pakistan and China, we typed 1985 Y chromosomes with 16-20 binary markers (mostly SNPs) and 10-16 microsatellites. The details of these studies will be reported elsewhere. As expected from worldwide and European analyses, Y variation showed strong geographical structure and, in Central Asia, some examples of population founder effects/bottlenecks like those seen in earlier work. However, we saw a novel genetic pattern that differed from known patterns in two respects:

1: While most haplotypes defined by so many markers are found in a single individual, even in large scale surveys, one haplotype identical at 17/17 binary loci and 15/15 microsatellites were found at high frequency. This haplotype included the derived T allele of RPS4Y and the alles 16,10, 16, 25, 10, 11, 13, 14, 12 ,11, 11, 11, 12, 8, 10, 10 for the loci DYS19, DYS389I, DYS389b, DYS390, DYS391, DYS392, DYS393, DYS388, DYS425, DYS426, DYS434, DYS435, DYS436, DYS437, DYS438 and DYS439.

It made up about 5% of the chromosomes in Central and Eastern Asia and together with closely related haplotypes linked by single mutational steps, about 9% of these populations.These lineages are collectively called the 'star haplotype'. Star haplotype chromosomes were found in 15 populations spread throughout a large geographical area spanning almost one-quater of the world, and thus do not result from an event specefic to any one population.




Molecular analyses provide insights into the most likely time and place of origin of this lineage. We used the BATWING program, incorporating the known mutation rates of Y microsatellites, to estimate the time that the variation of 16 microsatellites in 62 chromosomes from the star haplotype confidence limits around ~300 to ~3000 years, taking into accound the uncertainties with the mutation rates and population structure, and assuming that a generation time of 30 years. Within this lineage, variation is greates in Mongolia, where seven different haplotypes are found (ten if Mongolians living in China are included) thus Mongolia is the most likely place of origin.


The molecular data alone provides no direct information about the identity of the founder of the lineage. It is possible that the bearers of this chromosome had a selective advantage or were just lucky, but the history of the region suggests and alternative explanation: the chromosomes could have descended from Ghengeis Khan. This hypothesis could be tested by examining DNA from te remains of Ghengis Khan or his male-line relatives, or living descendants. Many Hazaras consider themselves to be male-line descendants of Genghis Khan, and a geneaoly documenting these links has been constructed from their history by Shaikh Nasir Ali Ansari.

The Y chromosomes of the Hazaras are indeed distinct from all other surrounding populations and most belong to just two groups of lineages, one of which is the star haplotype.


We therefore conclude that the Y chromosome of a single individual, probably Genghis Khan (Or strictly his father, since some chromosomes may derive from his brothers) has spread rapidly during historical times.

As well as providing a link between genetics and history, this conclusion demonstrates a novel aspect of human population structure and reveals how large-scale changes to patterns of genetic variation can occasionally occur very quickly. The observation that the current patters of genetic variation can occasionally occur very quickly.
Here is the Map.
You can see that the Uzbeks have very little in common with Mongols, and the Hazaras are the most similar to the Mongols, Other than the Chinese Mongols.
@Samandri @Psychic

Thanks to:
Department of Biochemistry, University of Oxford,

Department of Medical biology, Harbin Medical University,

Wellcome Trust center for Human Genetics,

Institute of genetics, Chinese Academy of Sciences,

Biomedical and Genetic Engineering Labs, Islamabad,

Institute of Immunology, Academy of Sciences,

McDonald Institute for Archaeological Research, University of Cambridge,

Institute of Biotechnology, Mongolian Academy of Sciences,

 

[Pakistani E]

Good read. Well done @Yazp

Keep them coming.

 

[maxpayne]

Here's a small article I've written about my people, The Hazaras:
I will add more parts to this as I get time to write them in follow up posts on this same thread
Enjoy!



Origins:


The word Hazara comes from the Persian word “Hazar” which means a thousand. This is a reference to one of Ghengeis Khan's military units, the “Mingghan” a regiment made up of 100 “Arbans” (One Arban is a hundred men).



Most Hazaras came to Afghanistan with Ghengeis Khan during his Khwarezmian campaign. ( It was not originally the intention of the Mongol Empire to invade the Khwarezmid Empire. According to the Persian historian Juzjani, Genghis Khan had originally sent the ruler of the Khwarezmid Empire, Ala ad-Din Muhammad, a message seeking trade and greeted him as his neighbor: "I am master of the lands of the rising sun while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a firm treaty of friendship and peace”. Which the “Sultan” broke after he beheaded an innocent Mongol caravan.)


After taking a city from the enemy, a Garrison was stationed in the city, Thus the Mongols settled there and somewhat merged with the local population, slowly abandoning Mongolian and shifting to Dari.


The second wave of Hazaras coming to Afghanistan was during the 1251 when Halagu Khan was sent to:


Suppress the Ismaili Ḥashshāshīnrebellion

and to Suppress the Abbasid Caliphate which now had rebelled, when they had agreed to be a Mongol Vassal when Ghengeis Khan had come.

Thus, he assembled the biggest Mongol Army to date and marched onto the Middle east with orders to either have the Abbasid Caliphate to submit, or to be utterly destroyed.


Conquest of Baghdad:

First of all, Watch this video and see the Mongolian Cavalry and their superior tactics in all of their glory.

and this:
View attachment 235947

After defeating the Assassins, Hulagu sent word to Al-Musta'sim, demanding his acquiescence to the terms imposed by Möngke. Al-Musta'sim refused, in large part due to the influence of his advisor and grand vizier, Ibn al-Alkami. Historians have ascribed various motives to al-Alkami's opposition to submission, including treachery and incompetence, and it appears that he lied to the Caliph about the severity of the invasion, assuring Al-Musta'sim that, if the capital of the caliphate was endangered by a Mongol army, the Islamic world would rush to its aid.


Though replying to Hulagu's demands in a manner that the Mongol commander found threatening and offensive enough to break off further negotiation, Al-Musta'sim declined to gather armies to assist the forces available to him in Baghdad, nor did he strengthen the city's walls. By January 11, the Mongols had reached the vicinity of the city, establishing themselves on both banks of Tigris so as to form a pincer round the city, and Al-Musta'sim finally decided to confront them, sending out a force of 20,000 cavalry to attack the Mongols. The cavalry were decisively defeated by the Mongols, whose engineers broke dikes along the Tigris River and flooded the ground behind the Abbasid forces, trapping them.

Mongols feared that a supernatural disaster would strike if the blood of Al-Musta'sim, a direct descendant of Muhammad (S.A.W)'s uncle Al-‘Abbas ibn ‘Abd al-Muttalib (R.A), and the last reigning Abbasid caliph in Baghdad, was spilled. The Shias of Persia stated that no such calamity had happened after the deaths of Husayn Ibn Ali (A.S) nevertheless, as a precaution and in accordance with a Mongol taboo which forbade spilling royal blood, Hulagu had Al-Musta'sim wrapped in a carpet and trampled to death by horses on 20 February 1258. (A Mongolian execution only given to high ranking people in which no blood is spilled)


The Ilkhanate:


The word “Ilkhanate” means Subordinate khanate, under the Mongol Great Khan. Halagu Khan was permitted to establish his own Khanate in the region. Meanwhile the Mongols were fighting in China. The incompetent Khan, Kublai Khan kept failing, thus the Great Khan himself came to lead, leaving his son Arik Boke to manage his empire until the Campaign was over. However his father did not return from China as he died from Malaria or some other similar disease. Kublai Khan and his Chinese Generals marched onto the Mongol capital, Karakoram and destroyed it along with Arik Boke.

After the Great Khan died, and his heir murdered, nor the Golden horde or the Ilkhanate wanted to stay a part of the federation.


The Ilkhante consisted of modern day Iran, Pakistan, Azerbaijan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Turkey, Turkmenistan and Armenia.
View attachment 235956


Initially the Mongols allied with the Franks in the 7th Crusade against a common foe, the Mamluks.

The Mamluks were honorable and respectable warriors and a formidable foe.

( You wont hear that from a Mongol everyday.)


Ghazan the Great converted to Islam on the 16th of June, 1295. All of his subject and most Mongols converted to Islam as well.
View attachment 235955
Ghazan studying the Quran.

The Ilkhanate ceased to exist in 1335, After successful Uzbek rebels and the Uzbek turned Mughal “Timur the Lame” took over what was left of the Ilkhanate and established the Timurd empire (Which in turn was destroyed by Shia rebels the same way the Uzbeks rebelled against the Ilkhanate) One of the descendants of Timurd, Babur established the Mughal Emprie in the subcontinent.

Don't confuse Hazaras with the Mughals.



Just note that it has some parts which is a copy and paste from wikipedia

What do u think of Hazaras living in Hazara division i.e Haripur and adjoining areas?

 

[Yazp]

What do u think of Hazaras living in Hazara division i.e Haripur and adjoining areas?

They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.

Good read. Well done @Yazp

Keep them coming.

Thanks mate

Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:

 

[Yazp]

Unfortunately there are also a considerable amount of Hazara Mercenaries working in a certain war-torn Arab state, alongside a certain dictator, on behalf of a certain middle-eastern state.

We're probably the most resilient nation, if not one of the most. But we've fought for everyone, and tried to solve everyone else's problems, except for our own.

Hopefully the time where we fight for ourselves shall come soon, Inshallah.

 

[Pakistani E]

They're Sunni Hazaras, they went to Hazara division and we went to Quetta.
Most of them are now mixed with Phatans today.
They are still my tribesmen, regardless of their Religion, However most of them don't identify themselves as Hazaras since they fear getting killed for it.


Thanks mate

Here are a few pictures of relatively young Hazaras in different Armed forces:
View attachment 242179
View attachment 242180
View attachment 242186
View attachment 242187

View attachment 242181
View attachment 242183 View attachment 242184

Hazaras are one of the most patriotic, educated and peaceful communities of Pakistan. I salute them for their service, it is a pity that not enough is being done to protect them. I wish the state of Pakistan becomes serious in protecting all the people of Pakistan without distinction. I for one will never forget their sacrifices for this nation.

Unfortunately there are also a considerable amount of Hazara Mercenaries working in a certain war-torn Arab state, alongside a certain dictator, on behalf of a certain middle-eastern state.
View attachment 242188
We're probably the most resilient nation, if not one of the most. But we've fought for everyone, and tried to solve everyone else's problems, except for our own.

Hopefully the time where we fight for ourselves shall come soon, Inshallah.

I agree, these people should come back and hunt down those ******* who are wandering around freely targeting the community. Their energies are better served here.

 

[Kambojaric]

Could you expand on the main Hazara tribes @Yazp? What are their histories, Where have they migrated from etc?

 

[Yazp]

Could you expand on the main Hazara tribes @Yazp? What are their histories, Where have they migrated from etc?

I will not talk much about this subject, but here:

Jaghori:
Ilkhanate.
Ilkhanate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dai Zangi:
Oriat.
Oirats - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Uruzgani:
Qara Khitan/Chobainds.
Qara Khitai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Chobanids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Polada:

Daikundi:
???
I do not know much about them.


You see, our history has not been recorded properly.

I do not like these "subtribes", I think that all Hazaras should unite under one banner, and forget these subtribes/clans. But then again, the problem with not only Hazara, but Mongol blood is that every Tom, Dick and Harry wants to be a leader, and all of them will start fighting each other for petty matters instead of uniting against one foe.