An Appeal Against the Bloodshed

[nair]

On topic,

I have very little to contribute,
Never been to Kashmir, don't know much about the political situation, did date a Kashmiri Pandit girl whose family was displaced and know that it was a sensitive topic for her to talk about. I will refrain and commenting and rather just learn a bit.

The problem with kashmir on the forum or off the forum is the emotions attached with it......Everyone is emotional about it.... all the 3 sides....... Most of the guys here dont understand the problem, nor they try to understand the other perspectives...... I normally keep myself away from Kashmir related threads other than one or two posts on the topic.....

 

[Joe Shearer]

The problem with kashmir on the forum or off the forum is the emotions attached with it......Everyone is emotional about it.... all the 3 sides....... Most of the guys here dont understand the problem, nor they try to understand the other perspectives...... I normally keep myself away from Kashmir related threads other than one or two posts on the topic.....

You are very wise. Those of us - I, in particular - who have been compelled to intervene due to the increasing horror of this situation find ourselves in an ambiguous and unenviable position.

Here is the peculiar part.

If we were to start with wiping off the exchanges involved, and I was invited to start over again, there is no doubt in my mind that my conscience would compel me to do the same things that I did:

• appeal to all concerned in the violence following deaths due to the defensive actions of the security forces to stop the violence;
• join in such an appeal signed by other Indians;
• persuade as many others as will listen to me to promote similar appeals, to the same sets of people.

There is little doubt in my mind that small-minded observers would attack these efforts in just the same way as has already been done, by questioning my personal integrity and my loyalty.

So be it.

My last off-topic post, and my apologies to all members for this:

@Levina
@SpArK
@nair

Please refer to our discussion and to my post #128.

It is necessary to state that all this is being done and written with a clear head and not in anger. It is being done keeping in view the opinions expressed by yourselves. And it is done although the insult offered is of a fundamental and unforgivable nature, and one occasioned by complete, almost wilful, indifference to the situation.

I have withdrawn my negative rating. As a reciprocation, I expect the withdrawal of the insult that occasioned it, and an acknowledgement. I write this at 4 in the morning of the 17th, and shall hope for a satisfactory answer by 4 in the evening of the 17th.

 

[Levina]

I have withdrawn my negative rating

I appreciate that.

As a reciprocation, I expect the withdrawal of the insult that occasioned it, and an acknowledgement.

FYI- @third eye

 

[MilSpec]

You have brought to his notice, and that should suffice.

I have a suspicion that much of this has been quite effectively being managed by NC...

Now wait for the intolerance brigade to jump in, soon this will be termed as extra-judicial killing, and the ill-trained militant being a bhagat singh or a guevara....

I think the first shot is already been fired..... Major Gulam nabi azad ( if i am not wrong) wanted to compare this to gujarat...... I find these morons on the same level of prachi's..... only the ideology is different....

Well. It's getting too predictable:


JNU student Umar Khalid praises Burhan Wani

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...bul-mujahideen-commander-burhan-wani-2905552/

https://twitter.com/x/status/751949567990517761

http://www.opindia.com/2016/07/medi...ise-with-terrorist-wani-social-media-rebukes/

 

[Dash]

I have withdrawn my negative rating. As a reciprocation, I expect the withdrawal of the insult that occasioned it, and an acknowledgement. I write this at 4 in the morning of the 17th, and shall hope for a satisfactory answer by 4 in the evening of the 17th.

Nice you did.... I have no intention to take you to national media.. But a reference might please your heart next time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Nice you did.... I have no intention to take you to national media.. But a reference might please your heart next time.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you threatening me?

 

[Dash]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you threatening me?

You are n intellectual

 

[Joe Shearer]

You are n intellectual

Are you threatening me? Answer the question, please.

 

[Spectre]

Are you threatening me? Answer the question, please.

Probably off topic Joe but since when did we start shying off from tough arguments. We as Indians are famously argumentative but somehow a whole bunch of us belonging to the heartland have developed a hive mind when it comes to tough questions about role of state, specially when a harsher light is shone on it.

I despair that if Emergency would be to declared today - there would be no mass resistance and there would be no JP and ironically our cherished democracy would end with popular applause - The Pakistani way!

Kashmir! Do we even consider it as a part of India? Where does our empathy flee when it comes to plight of Kashmiris? Why do people suddenly become deaf and mute when it comes to discussing the wrongdoings of Army and CRPF in Kashmir?

Why do we tend to bunch up everyone as terrorist? Justify any and every action on the grounds of it being against terrorism? Is terrorism the new Jew? Is terrorism the new communist? Mc-carthy would have been proud today.

Why do we forget that there is no joy in everyone turning to gestalts? It is our differences, our polarities, our conflicts which weeds out complacency, brings innovation and makes our nation stronger.

Pardon me but it has been days since I had a nice argument either from Pakistanis or from Indians. Both groups are parroting the official stances, doors to their mind are bolted shut and there seems to be no capacity for new ideas to emerge.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Probably off topic Joe but since when did we start shying off from tough arguments. We as Indians are famously argumentative but somehow a whole bunch of us belonging to the heartland have developed a hive mind when it comes to tough questions about role of state, specially when a harsher light shone on it.

I despair that if Emergency would be to declared today - there would be no mass resistance and there would be no JP and ironically our cherished democracy would end with popular applause - The Pakistani way!

Kashmir! Do we even consider it as a part of India? Where does our empathy flee when it comes to plight of Kashmiris? Why do people suddenly become deaf and mute when it comes to discussing the wrongdoings of Army and CRPF in Kashmir?

Why do we tend to bunch up everyone as terrorist? Justify any and every action on the grounds of it being terrorism? Is terrorism the new Jew? Is terrorism the new communist?

Why do we forget that there is no joy in everyone turning to gestalts? It is our differences, our polarities, our conflicts which weeds out complacency, brings innovation and makes our nation stronger.

Pardon me but it has been days since I had a nice argument either from Pakistanis or from Indians. Both groups are parroting the official stances, doors to their mind are bolted shut and there seems to be no capacity for new ideas to emerge.

A beautiful post. Thank you so much. I intend to go out and seek some fresh air, and will respond to you with mixed pain and pleasure once I return. Pain, because what you say is so true; pleasure, because even one person thinking like you is one person thinking off the tramlines.

 

[Dash]

Are you threatening me? Answer the question, please.

Are you threatening me? Answer the question, please.

No

Pardon me but it has been days since I had a nice argument either from Pakistanis or from Indians. Both groups are parroting the official stances, doors to their mind are bolted shut and

That's what you said is the official stand..

 

[SirHatesALot]

Probably off topic Joe but since when did we start shying off from tough arguments. We as Indians are famously argumentative but somehow a whole bunch of us belonging to the heartland have developed a hive mind when it comes to tough questions about role of state, specially when a harsher light is shone on it.

I despair that if Emergency would be to declared today - there would be no mass resistance and there would be no JP and ironically our cherished democracy would end with popular applause - The Pakistani way!

Kashmir! Do we even consider it as a part of India? Where does our empathy flee when it comes to plight of Kashmiris? Why do people suddenly become deaf and mute when it comes to discussing the wrongdoings of Army and CRPF in Kashmir?

Why do we tend to bunch up everyone as terrorist? Justify any and every action on the grounds of it being against terrorism? Is terrorism the new Jew? Is terrorism the new communist? Mc-carthy would have been proud today.

Why do we forget that there is no joy in everyone turning to gestalts? It is our differences, our polarities, our conflicts which weeds out complacency, brings innovation and makes our nation stronger.

Pardon me but it has been days since I had a nice argument either from Pakistanis or from Indians. Both groups are parroting the official stances, doors to their mind are bolted shut and there seems to be no capacity for new ideas to emerge.

I don't really know when did we Indians ever showed empathy to wards Kashmir or any other state with facing insurgencies.
Take the issue of Naxals how many people have even heard from the people living in those areas? Do other Indians even know how security agencies are conducting operations what is the human cost of it how many are caught in cross fire.

 

[nair]

I despair that if Emergency would be to declared today - there would be no mass resistance and there would be no JP and ironically our cherished democracy would end with popular applause - The Pakistani way

I have no clue what made you say this, how did you come to such a conclusion???

Kashmir! Do we even consider it as a part of India? Where does our empathy flee when it comes to plight of Kashmiris? Why do people suddenly become deaf and mute when it comes to discussing the wrongdoings of Army and CRPF in Kashmir?

Well It is true there are certain things which they have done is totally wrong..... and i guess these things are discussed and taken care at appropriate levels at appropriate times.... Yes there would be cases which would have been pushed under carpet, but I do not know how one can be sure about these things.... Let us not forget that the army/CRPF is in middle of a propaganda war, and there are enough vested interests in this conflict, both at political level and at separatist level, add external parties in to it, That will give an idea how complicated it is...... Probably one solution would be, admission of the mistakes and action taken details.......That would probably give confidence to the population on the accountability part to armed forces........When it comes to criticizing armed forces, let me ask you something..... Are we giving the support to our armed forces like our western neighbors does????? No we do not.....Criticising them based on what??? as mentioned above how are we so sure about the authenticity of the information fed to us???? They are doing their duty in a very hostile environment, if we cannot support them enough, then let us not criticise them too... Leave that to the existing systems to take care.....

But i agree with you we kind of ignore the pain of the common man in kashmir......If we believe that kashmir is integral part of india then we should also beleive their pain is our pain just like in any other state....... That will make kashmiri's feel closer to the nation....... our current stand would only increase the gap between us and the kashmiri's

Why do we tend to bunch up everyone as terrorist? Justify any and every action on the grounds of it being against terrorism? Is terrorism the new Jew? Is terrorism the new communist? Mc-carthy would have been proud today

I think you are asking to differentiate the separatists (protesters) and the terrorists..... Or are you also from the group who believe wani was a freedom fighter?..... I agree we need to differentiate the terrorist from those protesters...... though these guys are supporting the terrorists, but their means different........ They should be dealt little more carefully...... Probably the means used to them to silent could be more softer ones..... I do not know why cant we use water canons as an effective method to curb them...... there are other established methods like rubber bullets.... Loss of life only fan the resistance and bring bad name to the country and make our stand weaker in the conflict..... I do not understand the logic behind sending kids to this conflict zone.....I understand that kids can be the best propaganda item, but what kind of parent it would be to send these kids to be part of the propaganda....

Why do we forget that there is no joy in everyone turning to gestalts? It is our differences, our polarities, our conflicts which weeds out complacency, brings innovation and makes our nation stronger

Well the differences and polarities are at the highest point since our independence...... and the way things are going i do not see the nation becoming stronger....

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Levina
@SpArK
@nair

I had withdrawn my negative rating conditionally, and had invited Third Eye to withdraw his insult. Apparently he does not feel the need to do so. Under the circumstances, it can only be concluded that he stands by the insult he offered. Since the three of you had represented on his behalf, I draw your attention to this for your better understanding of the way in which his lack of comprehension of someone else's motives led to an infamous remark.

Any further reactions to this may kindly be taken up with the moderators, as I have on my part bent over backwards to remain open to the opinions of my peers, and to respond positively to their indications overriding my own outrage, without result. I do not feel any obligation to do anything further.

 

[SpArK]

@Levina
@SpArK
@nair

I had withdrawn my negative rating conditionally, and had invited Third Eye to withdraw his insult. Apparently he does not feel the need to do so. Under the circumstances, it can only be concluded that he stands by the insult he offered. Since the three of you had represented on his behalf, I draw your attention to this for your better understanding of the way in which his lack of comprehension of someone else's motives led to an infamous remark.

Any further reactions to this may kindly be taken up with the moderators, as I have on my part bent over backwards to remain open to the opinions of my peers, and to respond positively to their indications overriding my own outrage, without result. I do not feel any obligation to do anything further.

Agree with you.