American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Guest01]

Ok, back to the discussion without going around in circles:

We have the PA facts about what happened - NATO will not accept that it acted 'deliberately', but it will try and provide a 'face saving' explanation for both sides.

An apology, at this point, is likely, and it appears the GoP is willing to return to 'normal' if given an apology.

Comments?

Strange, how come Pakistan Army's statement get credibility while NATO's does not? The very fact that PAF was not scrambled in a sustained air assault to counter which, ground troops were sent in, is suspect in itself? Who in the right mind will send ground troops when they know that enemy air assets could be in the vicinity? Too many holes in what Pakistani Army is claiming. Why not wait till NATO's investigation is complete and then comment on it? Regarding apology, in fact I believe that showing inclination to give in even before the apology is offered is a sign of weakness. At least let the apology come in first. So far there has been nothing of an apology by any NATO member.

 

[Hulk]

If it happens then in future these blockade will not be taken seriously.

 

[53fd]

Strange, how come Pakistan Army's statement get credibility while NATO's does not?

There has been no statement made by the NATO that comprehensively explains its official position. Hence, your claim is wrong.

So far there has been nothing of an apology by any NATO member.

No, but Turkey did condemn the act, saying it was a violation & breach of Pakistan's sovereignty. So did Russia & China.

 

[JonAsad]

This incident is beyond apologies. The US & NATO Forces have been trying to instigate Pakistan, to get a reaction out of it. Pakistan must respond hard to this incident, without allowing a complete breakdown of relations with the US/NATO (which, in that scenario, would result in an outright, open confrontation between NATO/US & Pakistan).

We had NATO supply lines- The leverage- what more we have to even give a hard response?-
There are only two ways- Succumb- or Open Confrontation-
Later is the honorable way in my opinion-

 

[lem34]

Strange, how come Pakistan Army's statement get credibility while NATO's does not? The very fact that PAF was not scrambled in a sustained air assault to counter which, ground troops were sent in, is suspect in itself? Who in the right mind will send ground troops when they know that enemy air assets could be in the vicinity? Too many holes in what Pakistani Army is claiming. Why not wait till NATO's investigation is complete and then comment on it? Regarding apology, in fact I believe that showing inclination to give in even before the apology is offered is a sign of weakness. At least let the apology come in first. So far there has been nothing of an apology by any NATO member.

well its is unusual and unlikely that two posts attacked is an accident and even the british press were reporting survivors suggesting that PA version was true. But this is not the first time . I think the last 12 months Nato and western press have been demonising PA and ISI. this is a steady escalation prob americans are frustrated at not getting what they want in afghanistan and want as they say pakistan to do more etc

 

[Guest01]

There has been no statement made by the NATO that comprehensively explains its official position. Hence, your claim is wrong.a.

LoL, how come my claim is wrong. I myself said that wait for NATO's investigation result. They have anyway not made a comprehensive statement. How can you already negate what they are going to say? You have to at least first know what they say!

No, but Turkey did condemn the act, saying it was a violation & breach of Pakistan's sovereignty. So did Russia & China.

How does it matter what Russia or China or Turkey are saying. They may condemn anything. You need to wait for NATO's statement and see if an apology comes across or an allegation.

 

[Rafi]

According to Pakistani Military sources, they believe that this action can only point to two conclusions, either ISAF are so incompetent that they can't tell their *** from their elbow, or this was a deliberate provocation in order to provoke a strong military response which will allow them to conduct military operations in NWA. According to all available information, including from sources within ISAF, Afghan intelligence, ANA and politicians within A-Stan, they are leaning towards the latter.

 

[JonAsad]

In this scenario we simply cannot fight fire with fire.

They know this aswell- what other options we have?-
Improve our economy- system- become independent and stand on our feet- seems like a good one-
But-
What Now?-
We cannot let them harass us like this-

 

[Guest01]

well its is unusual and unlikely that two posts attacked is an accident and even the british press were reporting survivors suggesting that PA version was true. But this is not the first time . I think the last 12 months Nato and western press have been demonising PA and ISI. this is a steady escalation prob americans are frustrated at not getting what they want in afghanistan and want as they say pakistan to do more etc

Exactly. A coordinate assault on 2 posts must have its reasons. The locations of the posts are given to NATO. Hence in the light of the information and the claim of fire emanating from these check posts, it is important to wait for NATO's statement. Regarding the British Press, I think that if on one hand BBC's report can be considered as malafide then not a good idea to pick and choose press that likes Pakistan. Regarding the Amercians frustration that is not a surprise. An authority as high as General Mullen testified that Haqqani group is a veritable arm of ISI and ISI and Pakistan Army is supporting and mentoring Haqqani group who are in turn killing American soldiers and NATO / Afghan soldiers. The American's frustration is as understandable as is current Pakistani frustration. The soldiers of each nation are dear to the respective countries. Would you not agree on that?

 

[53fd]

We had NATO supply lines- The leverage- what more we have to even give a hard response?-
There are only two ways- Succumb- or Open Confrontation-

I do not agree with this. There are more than two ways of responding to this. The US has been trying to coax/cajole Iran into action as well, but they haven't done so. They have not been succumbed by the US like Pakistan has. Neither has there been an open confrontation between the US & Iran, & I doubt it will.

Pakistan has a lot more leverage than just the supply lines. It is probably most important country in the 'Afghan end game'.

What Pakistan must do is the following:

a) Build itself a stake in Afghanistan without burning bridges.

b) Not be seen to be supporting militants in Afghanistan.

c) It should clamp down hard on US presence in Pakistan. Whether that is the Shamsi Airbase, the Jacobabad Airbase that is being allegedly used, all CIA networks inside of Pakistan.

d) It should permanently, or at least indefinitely close the supply lines. Last time they closed the supply lines for about 2 weeks, the US got its bravado handed back to it, & apologized. This time though, the apology will not be enough. This attack is inexcusable, & has far reaching implications than just this incident.

 

[VelocuR]

Please anyone tell me, how Pakistan will improve communication systems from NATO helicopters attacks?

It was full of jam or destroy by NATO within seconds. PAF officers probably didn't recieve the warning messages from communication systems.

 

[Rafi]

Serious consideration is being given to tighten the noose around Afghan transit trade.

 

[r3alist]

They know this aswell- what other options we have?-
Improve our economy- system- become independent and stand on our feet- seems like a good one-
But-
What Now?-
We cannot let them harass us like this-

pakistan has other options of strength, there are different types of warfares, it doesnt have to be conventional.

having said that, the said thing is we are talking about fighting the us when really we want good relations with the us, unfortunately its become a zero sum game.

 

[lem34]

We had NATO supply lines- The leverage- what more we have to even give a hard response?-
There are only two ways- Succumb- or Open Confrontation-
Later is the honorable way in my opinion-

Jon let me ask you something? If we had open warfare yes it would be honorable. We would certainly hurt americans and cause them damage. But pakistanis would suffer probably tens of thousand deaths. Clearly if things were left to zardari and co they would sell pakistan and every pakistani tommorow to america. What gives me faith is in PA and ISI is that they may not be outwardly showing they are against america but america clearly believes that isi and pa are there enemy. Last 4 years sinc they told musharaff to get democracy etc they have not got what they want. If PA and ISI was a lap dog of americans as some indians suggest and some of our forum members why are americans attacking pa and isi at every chance they get

 

[Rafi]

I do not agree with this. There are more than two ways of responding to this. The US has been trying to coax/cajole Iran into action as well, but they haven't done so. They have not been succumbed by the US like Pakistan has. Neither has there been an open confrontation between the US & Iran, & I doubt it will.

Pakistan has a lot more leverage than the supply lines. It is probably most important country in the 'Afghan end game'.

What Pakistan must do is the following:

a) Build itself a stake in Afghanistan without burning bridges.

b) Not be seen (different from perception) to be supporting militants in Afghanistan.

c) It should clamp down hard on US presence in Pakistan. Whether that is the Shamsi Airbase, the Jacobabad Airbase that is being allegedly used, all CIA networks inside of Pakistan.

d) It should permanently, or at least indefinitely close the supply lines. Last time they closed the supply lines for about 2 weeks, the US got its bravado handed back to it, & apologized. This time though, the apology will not be enough. This attack is inexcusable, & has far reaching implications than just this incident.

We have many options, open confrontation - is not in the interest of either ISAF or Pakistan.