American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'
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VCheng
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Let's wait for the final report.
I said CAN be an error, not whether it is, or was.
A location identified as a source of unfriendly fire will be targeted in such a way that a radius of several hundred feet around it is instantly annihilated. It doesn't matter if 2 or 20 or 200 targets fire back, sit, sleep or run. They will be killed. SOP.
ppl nitpicking on 2.5 km, there was also an unveriffied anonymous account claiming the attack lasted for 5 plus hours. But the official DGMO account has cleared it to be at a little over 2 hours. ISPR isn't accountable for disinformation circulating through media.
Jango
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if it really lasted for TWO HOURS, then defiantly question raises towards PA-Aviation & PAF.
but again i remembered Osama raid and a few more attacks by NATO forces on PA posts and not to mention legendary Drones.
(Cool down Danger-zone its usual)
OBL was a different case, Drones are a different case, this is a different case, stop thinking that t=all are the same, every incident has different equipment, different routes and all.
VCheng
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There is no disrespect here.
Establishing the correct facts is the best way to honor the soldiers, and to prevent further losses.
truth is, pak army are not going to take a PUNGA with the US.
all you arm chair generals who wanted pak to shoot nato choppers down are delusional, everything has a cost/benefit calculation, and its a pretty easy one
there is no shame in tactical retreat.
all you arm chair generals who wanted pak to shoot nato choppers down are delusional, everything has a cost/benefit calculation, and its a pretty easy one
there is no shame in tactical retreat.
nato's report will most likely counter Pakistani claim of second attack by their helis by either outright denying it or justify it by saying they continued to recieve fire frm Pak side and came back to engage it.
xTra
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Now this is discussion going nowhere, let us wait for official investigation report by NATO, hope something solid may come.
unicorn
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Unprovoked: DGMO gives details of aerial assault
ISLAMABAD: The Nato attack on two military check posts in the Mohmand Agency early Saturday morning was an “unprovoked act of blatant aggression,” said the Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) Major General Ishfaq Nadeem on Tuesday, adding that all options remained open to the government and the military. “The final decision rests with the prime minister. We are considering a range of options,” he told journalists at a briefing, adding that the military will have its input into the decisions taken. A review of the incident is under way at the GHQ, he said.
The DGMO said he was not authorised to comment on what specific counter measures were being considered to cope with such situations in the future and added these would be finalised after the completion of the continuing investigation into the incident.
He went into comprehensive detail about the sequence of events known so far, explaining that a check post code-named Volcano first came under attack at around 15 to 30 minutes after midnight. A nearby check post, code-named Boulder, responded with 12.7 mm anti-aircraft weapons and mortars after the Volcano check post came under attack from gunship helicopters.
Subsequently, check post Boulder also came under attack and all communication was lost with both check posts. But before communication was lost, company commander Major Mujahid headed for Volcano and Boulder to investigate and was killed as the helicopters re-engaged. Amongst the 24 men killed that night was also Captain Usman who leaves behind a widow and a 3-month-old baby daughter.
The DGMO said the two posts were located at a place from where there has been no cross-border infiltration, though militant attacks from the other side had been continuing. Settled villages were two-three kilometres away from the posts and the posts themselves were about 300-400 metres inside Pakistan borders.
The two check posts, he maintained, could not be mistaken for militant sanctuaries because the other side had been provided all available information about the number of Pakistani posts and their locations. The men at the posts were uniformed and the posts were well-defined. The DGMO further said the Pakistan Army believed that Nato was monitoring the transmissions that night and knew they had hit Volcano checkpost.
The posts were being manned by the experienced and battle-hardened 7-AK battalion which was equipped with both line and wireless communications equipment, but armed for dealing only with militant activity but not repelling an aerial assault. “The troops are geared for fighting terrorists and not border security,” he said.
The Pakistan Army maintains an 8,200 man presence in Mohmand Agency following military operations to clear the region of militants, with 29 border checkposts in along the border while there are only 14 on the Afghan side, manned predominantly by Afghan police. A total of 820 check posts are maintained in the tribal belt along the border.
By 1 a.m. all channels of communications with the other side were activated and the helicopters were pulled back. But as Pakistani troops moved from one post to the other to assess the damage and aid the injured, the helicopters reappeared and pinned them down. Some 26 artillery airbursts were fired by the Pakistani side and the engagement lasted until 0215.
Answering a question, he said the civil authorities including the president, the prime minister and the foreign and defence ministers were informed in the “morning” about the incident which began around midnight and lasted for two hours.
The reason for the implied delay in informing the civil authorities, he said, was because a complete picture had not emerged until daybreak.
It was clear from General Nadeem’s briefing that there was misleading information being provided to the Pakistan military from the start. Just before the attack, a Pakistani officer at the regional tactical center was informed by an American sergeant that their special forces had received indirect fire from Gora Pai, located some 15 kilometres away from Volcano post. And after 7 minutes, a woman officer informed him that the fire had, in fact, come from Volcano, which had been hit in retaliation.
The DGMO was dismissive of previous joint inquiries conducted into three earlier incidents. “There have been joint inquiries and they all came to naught. They give a version not based on facts as we know them,” he said, adding that Pakistan did not initiate firing at any point that night.
The DGMO listed the standard operating procedures that exists in the border coordination mechanism that entails sharing information on impending operations in advance, particularly if these operations come within two kilometers of the border; to immediately communicate if one side comes under fire with the responsibility to take action from the country from where the attack originated; and cessation of fire when communication established. “All SOPs were violated that night,” said General Nadeem.
He further elaborated that while the helicopters intruded into Pakistani airspace on an intermittent basis, supporting jets did not enter Pakistani airspace.
The central question remains why the Pakistan Air Force did not respond immediately to the attack. General Nadeem said there was “a haze” at the time, adding Pakistan Air Force interceptors did not scramble when the two helicopters from the other side violated the border, because initially it seemed the violation was only marginal.
Furthermore, according to him, the two helicopters had pulled back midway through giving the impression the attack had ended, but returned for another attack.
AVM (retd) Shahzad Chaudhry told Express Tribune that “the air force could have scrambled but you have to decide if you want a shooting war with America. With only 200-300 meters between the border, our jets would have entered Afghanistan. It is the consequences you have to live with.”
‘Unprovoked’: DGMO gives details of aerial assault – The Express Tribune
ISLAMABAD: The Nato attack on two military check posts in the Mohmand Agency early Saturday morning was an “unprovoked act of blatant aggression,” said the Director General of Military Operations (DGMO) Major General Ishfaq Nadeem on Tuesday, adding that all options remained open to the government and the military. “The final decision rests with the prime minister. We are considering a range of options,” he told journalists at a briefing, adding that the military will have its input into the decisions taken. A review of the incident is under way at the GHQ, he said.
The DGMO said he was not authorised to comment on what specific counter measures were being considered to cope with such situations in the future and added these would be finalised after the completion of the continuing investigation into the incident.
He went into comprehensive detail about the sequence of events known so far, explaining that a check post code-named Volcano first came under attack at around 15 to 30 minutes after midnight. A nearby check post, code-named Boulder, responded with 12.7 mm anti-aircraft weapons and mortars after the Volcano check post came under attack from gunship helicopters.
Subsequently, check post Boulder also came under attack and all communication was lost with both check posts. But before communication was lost, company commander Major Mujahid headed for Volcano and Boulder to investigate and was killed as the helicopters re-engaged. Amongst the 24 men killed that night was also Captain Usman who leaves behind a widow and a 3-month-old baby daughter.
The DGMO said the two posts were located at a place from where there has been no cross-border infiltration, though militant attacks from the other side had been continuing. Settled villages were two-three kilometres away from the posts and the posts themselves were about 300-400 metres inside Pakistan borders.
The two check posts, he maintained, could not be mistaken for militant sanctuaries because the other side had been provided all available information about the number of Pakistani posts and their locations. The men at the posts were uniformed and the posts were well-defined. The DGMO further said the Pakistan Army believed that Nato was monitoring the transmissions that night and knew they had hit Volcano checkpost.
The posts were being manned by the experienced and battle-hardened 7-AK battalion which was equipped with both line and wireless communications equipment, but armed for dealing only with militant activity but not repelling an aerial assault. “The troops are geared for fighting terrorists and not border security,” he said.
The Pakistan Army maintains an 8,200 man presence in Mohmand Agency following military operations to clear the region of militants, with 29 border checkposts in along the border while there are only 14 on the Afghan side, manned predominantly by Afghan police. A total of 820 check posts are maintained in the tribal belt along the border.
By 1 a.m. all channels of communications with the other side were activated and the helicopters were pulled back. But as Pakistani troops moved from one post to the other to assess the damage and aid the injured, the helicopters reappeared and pinned them down. Some 26 artillery airbursts were fired by the Pakistani side and the engagement lasted until 0215.
Answering a question, he said the civil authorities including the president, the prime minister and the foreign and defence ministers were informed in the “morning” about the incident which began around midnight and lasted for two hours.
The reason for the implied delay in informing the civil authorities, he said, was because a complete picture had not emerged until daybreak.
It was clear from General Nadeem’s briefing that there was misleading information being provided to the Pakistan military from the start. Just before the attack, a Pakistani officer at the regional tactical center was informed by an American sergeant that their special forces had received indirect fire from Gora Pai, located some 15 kilometres away from Volcano post. And after 7 minutes, a woman officer informed him that the fire had, in fact, come from Volcano, which had been hit in retaliation.
The DGMO was dismissive of previous joint inquiries conducted into three earlier incidents. “There have been joint inquiries and they all came to naught. They give a version not based on facts as we know them,” he said, adding that Pakistan did not initiate firing at any point that night.
The DGMO listed the standard operating procedures that exists in the border coordination mechanism that entails sharing information on impending operations in advance, particularly if these operations come within two kilometers of the border; to immediately communicate if one side comes under fire with the responsibility to take action from the country from where the attack originated; and cessation of fire when communication established. “All SOPs were violated that night,” said General Nadeem.
He further elaborated that while the helicopters intruded into Pakistani airspace on an intermittent basis, supporting jets did not enter Pakistani airspace.
The central question remains why the Pakistan Air Force did not respond immediately to the attack. General Nadeem said there was “a haze” at the time, adding Pakistan Air Force interceptors did not scramble when the two helicopters from the other side violated the border, because initially it seemed the violation was only marginal.
Furthermore, according to him, the two helicopters had pulled back midway through giving the impression the attack had ended, but returned for another attack.
AVM (retd) Shahzad Chaudhry told Express Tribune that “the air force could have scrambled but you have to decide if you want a shooting war with America. With only 200-300 meters between the border, our jets would have entered Afghanistan. It is the consequences you have to live with.”
‘Unprovoked’: DGMO gives details of aerial assault – The Express Tribune
maverick1977
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i am afraid there will be escalations after this incident. PA will issue MANPADS this time. the only logic i see PA not issuing MANPADs was the logic that talibans dont have any helis or airforce and to avoid accidental hitting of helis in afghan side. The equation has changed and i forsee a bigger problem in the region. Stay tuned
DANGER-ZONE
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something is common among them YOUR SOVEREIGNTY, is it a different case.
so what if someone rob your house, burn it down, kill a few etc .... are all these cases different for you to be treated differently, when you have guards for protection.
truth is, pak army are not going to take a PUNGA with the US.
all you arm chair generals who wanted pak to shoot nato choppers down are delusional, everything has a cost/benefit calculation, and its a pretty easy one
there is no shame in tactical retreat.
nope, Pakistan should've taken care of the NATO helis during the attack. Feelings of reveng among soldiers is not a good thing to be have. These guys are bound by brotherhood and take care of each other. Pakistani inaction has left them hurt and itching for a payback. Not following through with proper diplomatic action will hurt even further.
MAN Portable SAMs should be made mandatory in these outer posts. So they can take care of this nuisence on their own. Remeber anything goes when you are attacked.
OrionHunter
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It's intriguing that in spite of 12.7 mm anti-aircraft weapons and mortars fired by the AK Battalion as well as artillery air bursts in the area where the choppers were flying, there was not a single NATO casualty? I understand that the op took place at night. But mortars and artillery can fire flares too, which could have been used to locate and light up the choppers after which the anti aircraft guns could have taken them on.
Just my two bits as I have no clue what the SOPs are and whether this was done or not. (Requires a lot of coordination though).
Just my two bits as I have no clue what the SOPs are and whether this was done or not. (Requires a lot of coordination though).
Safriz
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so the claims by Pakistani Officials that it was a well marked and well mapped check post which was there for quite some time holds no credibility?
and wouldn't NATO know of such a large and obvious stone structure perched on top of mountain?
Wouldn't NATO expect to receive fire from a Border security check post when they intrude Pakistani territory unannounced and unauthorized?
Even if Pakistani troops fired at them , they only exercised their right of defending their borders,and that if happened is well justified....
If NATO went off the hook on this and like a raging bull killed every living thing in vicinity,it cannot be justified...
I am at loss here,how can you sensibly call this an error? What would be the scenario of this error in your opinion?
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