American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[sreekimpact]

I appreciate what you are saying and I also understand your concerns. you need to be careful what you say over the web in the country of dreams and freedom.

its noble to think independently and with out prejudice and people who do that make their name, the ones that do within the army are called soldiers of conscience and whistle blowers that’s what enabled to show the real war stories that NATO/ US tried to hide that included the gruesome incidents of collecting body parts of civilians by the American kill teams, what they did in jail and how they giggled while killing civilians and school children from helicopters in Iraq.

Do you recall the story of “saving” a female American soldier from Iraqi Hospital? It was dubbed as “saving private jane” and was later it was found out that there was no resistance and the only Iraqis the rescue team encountered were Iraqi medics and doctors that were attending the American female soldier.

The killing of a British hostage Linda Norgrove while trying to free her from Taliban was another story that was blamed on Taliban but was later on found out that it was the ruthless and careless use of grenades by the Americans that lead to her death, further revelations were hushed up.

Moving on, a young aspiring American football champion Pat Tillman decided to joined the army when 9/11 was fresh and became the face of the proud American saving its freedom, he died from the hail of bullets of his own comrades but his death was dubbed by the Pentagon and its propaganda machinery together with the “like minded” news media as a brave son who valiantly led his forces and died from Taliban fire. There are many stories and the might not be any more since the only organised whistle blowing organisation is going to loose its founder Julian once he is extradited to America.

Coming to our own incident, we already have so much bad press about us that the western media that whatever story or explanation will come out from NATO’s “investigation” will be readily accepted anyone else will be blamed for this attack bar the NATO or US. Who does it leave you with? The phantom Taliban or the dead Pakistanis.

I am sorry that you are having to read all this which might get you into trouble but since you showed a sign of someone who can comment beyond our (Indo-Pak) rivalry so I thought to share few things with you.

I will once again like to link my post if someone or you have missed it where I have picked up few scenarios and also have guessed the possible outcome of the NATO “investigation”.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-unprovoked-night-attack-168.html#post2340361

Nice pOst ..well written

 

[indushek]

I appreciate what you are saying and I also understand your concerns. you need to be careful what you say over the web in the country of dreams and freedom.

its noble to think independently and with out prejudice and people who do that make their name, the ones that do within the army are called soldiers of conscience and whistle blowers that’s what enabled to show the real war stories that NATO/ US tried to hide that included the gruesome incidents of collecting body parts of civilians by the American kill teams, what they did in jail and how they giggled while killing civilians and school children from helicopters in Iraq.

Do you recall the story of “saving” a female American soldier from Iraqi Hospital? It was dubbed as “saving private jane” and was later it was found out that there was no resistance and the only Iraqis the rescue team encountered were Iraqi medics and doctors that were attending the American female soldier.

The killing of a British hostage Linda Norgrove while trying to free her from Taliban was another story that was blamed on Taliban but was later on found out that it was the ruthless and careless use of grenades by the Americans that lead to her death, further revelations were hushed up.

Moving on, a young aspiring American football champion Pat Tillman decided to joined the army when 9/11 was fresh and became the face of the proud American saving its freedom, he died from the hail of bullets of his own comrades but his death was dubbed by the Pentagon and its propaganda machinery together with the “like minded” news media as a brave son who valiantly led his forces and died from Taliban fire. There are many stories and the might not be any more since the only organised whistle blowing organisation is going to loose its founder Julian once he is extradited to America.

Coming to our own incident, we already have so much bad press about us that the western media that whatever story or explanation will come out from NATO’s “investigation” will be readily accepted anyone else will be blamed for this attack bar the NAT or US. Who does it leave you with? The phantom Taliban or the dead Pakistanis.

I am sorry that you are having to read all this which might get you into trouble but since you showed a sign of someone who can comment beyond our (Indo-Pak) rivalry so I thought to share few things with you.

I will once again like my post if someone or you have missed it where I have picked up few scenarios and also have guessed the possible outcome of the NATO “investigation”.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-unprovoked-night-attack-168.html#post2340361

I have read that post of yours pointing out Russians and some others being involved. OF all the Russians part is some what stretched at first but seems ok after a bit. So the result of "investigation" is a foregone conclusion, if so Americans are in a quandry aren't they?? Will Pakistan fall back or the NATO relent and get in line?? what will be the outcome of this current face off. I know Pakistan taken all the diplomatic measures right now, what further??

 

[patna_ke_presley]

The famous drug addict cum journalist cum satirist cum story writer cum idiot.

Nadeem F. Paracha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I heard of other F. Paracha of Jamat e Islami. He spit too much venom against Hindus.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I have read that post of yours pointing out Russians and some others being involved. OF all the Russians part is some what stretched at first but seems ok after a bit. So the result of "investigation" is a foregone conclusion, if so Americans are in a quandry aren't they?? Will Pakistan fall back or the NATO relent and get in line?? what will be the outcome of this current face off. I know Pakistan taken all the diplomatic measures right now, what further??

that will be the end of it. nothing further

why?


because Pakistan has to coexist with Afghanistan, and a peaceful and stable Afghanistan means Pakistan is safe and stable too.
the terrorists that are using the buffer between the two at their discretion at the time of this turmoil will have less space to exist and will perish.
Re NATO, I don’t really know what their actual aims are. Their actions are anything but friendly and if this a way to convince Pakistan to start Operation in North Waziristan then this approach will fail badly whether Pakistan does it not doesn’t. because it wont have anything to spare where its currently deployed, with its military “aid” cut off for few years now there is not enough resource to commit on NATO’s will.

NATO has scored an own goal regarding its own war efforts but out of sheer arrogance and military might its reluctant to admit it. The irony is that the ones that will be spelling out the findings of the “investigations” are the ones who would have given a go ahead to the attack and are the ones who actually ignored the “blue on blue” calls from the Pakistanis. That makes the pretty much mockery of the investigation or any peace move hence joining any investigation or future peace conferences is a waste of time.

If India and Pakistan also sit down on the table after wars so will NATO and Pakistan after a while and as the universal law dictates “Might is right” you don’t need to think who will back down and who will triumph and will be proven on the right. United nations, international court of justice and all that are just for window dressing, they mean toss all. The jungle law still prevails when the men used to go out for “clubbing” (look it up if you are not sure what I am talking about)

 

[ufone]

A/A
Dear friends i dont think we are going to do anything extraordinary, closing the airbases and supply routes is actually a matter of time till mercury dips. This is because we have always worked for the intrests of others and tried everyway to deceive our nation both at military and political levels. The presence of drone on our airbase yr repeatedly denied by our officials and who knows about other airbases. This is deceat. what message r we giving to our nation? infact we should have been more drastic. We should have expelled them from every nook and corner of our motherland, give a strong signal to our neighbour whose land is used against pak. By freezing the diplomatic channels, calling back our ambassidor and shunt theirs because this is not so simple as one may think , imagine another india, israel on ur western border.

 

[indushek]

that will be the end of it. nothing further

why?


because Pakistan has to coexist with Afghanistan, and a peaceful and stable Afghanistan means Pakistan is safe and stable too.
the terrorists that are using the buffer between the two at their discretion at the time of this turmoil will have less space to exist and will perish.
Re NATO, I don’t really know what their actual aims are. Their actions are anything but friendly and if this a way to convince Pakistan to start Operation in North Waziristan then this approach will fail badly whether Pakistan does it not doesn’t. because it wont have anything to spare where its currently deployed, with its military “aid” cut off for few years now there is not enough resource to commit on NATO’s will.

NATO has scored an own goal regarding its own war efforts but out of sheer arrogance and military might its reluctant to admit it. The irony is that the ones that will be spelling out the findings of the “investigations” are the ones who would have given a go ahead to the attack and are the ones who actually ignored the “blue on blue” calls from the Pakistanis. That makes the pretty much mockery of the investigation or any peace move hence joining any investigation or future peace conferences is a waste of time.

If India and Pakistan also sit down on the table after wars so will NATO and Pakistan after a while and as the universal law dictates “Might is right” you don’t need to think who will back down and who will triumph and will be proven on the right. United nations, international court of justice and all that are just for window dressing, they mean toss all. The jungle law still prevails when the men used to go out for “clubbing” (look it up if you are not sure what I am talking about)

You don't think Pakistan will get back to normal with NATO then? Your post pretty much say this is the end of Pakistan's role in WOT then. My question was never about who will triumph, i am just trying to gauge the future which in itself is impossible. My question is about WOT and Pakistan's role in it. NATO can't just forget Pakistan saying "oh we bungled it and they are angry" so forget them. Pakistan cannot think well we almost cut off our diplomatic relations so let us forget what is happening in the neighborhood can they?

In this context can u please answer again what will happen next?

 

[MilSpec]

y so I thought to share few things with you.

I will once again like to link my post if someone or you have missed it where I have picked up few scenarios and also have guessed the possible outcome of the NATO “investigation”.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-unprovoked-night-attack-168.html#post2340361

So... are you suggesting Pakistani establishment should investigate????

 

[Irfan Baloch]

You don't think Pakistan will get back to normal with NATO then? Your post pretty much say this is the end of Pakistan's role in WOT then. My question was never about who will triumph, i am just trying to gauge the future which in itself is impossible. My question is about WOT and Pakistan's role in it. NATO can't just forget Pakistan saying "oh we bungled it and they are angry" so forget them. Pakistan cannot think well we almost cut off our diplomatic relations so let us forget what is happening in the neighborhood can they?

In this context can u please answer again what will happen next?

pretty much answered in the first sentence of the last para, re what will happen, both will start to work together again according to the dictation and wishes of the stornger of the two.

 

[Developereo]

What if Pakistan orders NATO supply planes to stop flying over Pak airspace, but NATO continues anyway? Will we shoot down a NATO plane?

 

[patna_ke_presley]

To Afghanistan, on the slow train - CNN.com

some main points:-
1) The northern routes are safer and more reliable, but not entirely immune to disruption. Relations between the U.S. and Russia are sometimes tense (over such issues as the ballistic missile defense shield), and central Asian states have taken offense at U.S. complaints about their human rights record. Even so, Russia gains advantages from allowing its territory to be used; it doesn't want Afghanistan sliding into chaos. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said at the U.S./Russia summit 2009: "We value the efforts that are being made by the United States together with the other countries in order to prevent the terrorist threat that was emanating and still coming from the Afghan soil."

2)The NDN benefits plenty of other parties. For Uzbekistan, it helps defray the heavy cost of investment in its railway network, largely with loans from Asian banks, and increases demand for local goods. For Riga and other ports, it provides income at a time when economic growth is weak. And most of all, Afghanistan stands to benefit from the "transformational potential" (in the words of one U.S. diplomat) of a rail network that could make it an Asian transport hub.

At least rivals do co-operate for common threat.

 

[Developereo]

Putin will almost certainly be back next March. That alone will burn the midnight oil in the Oval Office!

 

[Saifullah Sani]

Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes
By ALAN CULLISON

MOSCOW—Russia said it may not let NATO use its territory to supply troops in Afghanistan if the alliance doesn't seriously consider its objections to a U.S.-led missile shield for Europe, Russia's ambassador to NATO said Monday.

Russia has stepped up its objections to the antimissile system in Europe, threatening last week to deploy its own ballistic missiles on the border of the European Union to counter the move. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization says the shield is meant to thwart an attack from a rogue state such as Iran, that it poses no threat to Russia, and that the alliance will go ahead with the plan despite Moscow's objections.

If NATO doesn't give a serious response, "we have to address matters in relations in other areas," Russian news services reported Dmitri Rogozin, ambassador to NATO, as saying. He added that Russia's cooperation on Afghanistan may be an area for review, the news services reported.

Threats to the NATO supply line through Russia come at an awkward time for the alliance. NATO has become increasingly reliant on the Russian route as problems in Pakistan—its primary supply route—have escalated. Over the weekend, Pakistan closed its border to trucks delivering supplies in response to coalition airstrikes Saturday that killed 25 Pakistani soldiers.

NATO began shipping its supplies through Russia in 2009, after the so-called reset in relations between Moscow and the U.S., allowing the alliance a safer route for supplies into Afghanistan. But U.S.-Russian relations have been strained lately by the approach of elections in both countries. In the past week, the Kremlin has sharply stepped up its anti-Western rhetoric ahead of parliamentary elections on Dec. 4.

Ivan Safranchuk, deputy director of the Moscow-based Institute of Contemporary International Studies, said Russia is unlikely to cut off the flow of NATO supplies to Afghanistan as an immediate response to missile-defense decisions. But Russia does want its objections to the missile shield to be taken more seriously, he said.

"If the U.S. is not responsive, then a cutoff could be a reality at some point," Mr. Safranchuk said. "Russia would like the U.S. to be more serious about Russian concerns."
Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes - WSJ.com

 

[patna_ke_presley]

Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes
By ALAN CULLISON

MOSCOW—Russia said it may not let NATO use its territory to supply troops in Afghanistan if the alliance doesn't seriously consider its objections to a U.S.-led missile shield for Europe, Russia's ambassador to NATO said Monday.

Russia has stepped up its objections to the antimissile system in Europe, threatening last week to deploy its own ballistic missiles on the border of the European Union to counter the move. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization says the shield is meant to thwart an attack from a rogue state such as Iran, that it poses no threat to Russia, and that the alliance will go ahead with the plan despite Moscow's objections.

If NATO doesn't give a serious response, "we have to address matters in relations in other areas," Russian news services reported Dmitri Rogozin, ambassador to NATO, as saying. He added that Russia's cooperation on Afghanistan may be an area for review, the news services reported.

Threats to the NATO supply line through Russia come at an awkward time for the alliance. NATO has become increasingly reliant on the Russian route as problems in Pakistan—its primary supply route—have escalated. Over the weekend, Pakistan closed its border to trucks delivering supplies in response to coalition airstrikes Saturday that killed 25 Pakistani soldiers.

NATO began shipping its supplies through Russia in 2009, after the so-called reset in relations between Moscow and the U.S., allowing the alliance a safer route for supplies into Afghanistan. But U.S.-Russian relations have been strained lately by the approach of elections in both countries. In the past week, the Kremlin has sharply stepped up its anti-Western rhetoric ahead of parliamentary elections on Dec. 4.

Ivan Safranchuk, deputy director of the Moscow-based Institute of Contemporary International Studies, said Russia is unlikely to cut off the flow of NATO supplies to Afghanistan as an immediate response to missile-defense decisions. But Russia does want its objections to the missile shield to be taken more seriously, he said.

"If the U.S. is not responsive, then a cutoff could be a reality at some point," Mr. Safranchuk said. "Russia would like the U.S. to be more serious about Russian concerns."
Russia Considers Blocking NATO Supply Routes - WSJ.com

You missed that point bro. Any way Americans have third supply route Georgia-Azerbaijan-Kazakhstan-Uzbekistan without going through Russia.

 

[bdslph]

Pakistan calls NATO raid 'act of aggression'
Military official says cross-border operation that killed 24 soldiers was deliberate as Clinton again voices regret.
Last Modified: 30 Nov 2011 06:44
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Pakistanis held daily protests against the NATO strike, with some calling on Islamabad to cut ties with US [AFP]

The Pakistani military has called the NATO cross-border air attack on a military checkpoint that killed 24 soldiers a deliberate act of aggression.

In a briefing to editors carried in local newspapers on Wednesday, Ishfaq Nadeem, director-general of military operations, said NATO forces were alerted they were attacking Pakistani posts, but helicopters kept firing at them.

Al Jazeera's Imtiaz Tyab, reporting from Islamabad, described Nadeem's detailed account of NATO's attack in the early hours of Saturday morning.

"[Nadeem] said two of their posts were attacked by the alliance forces for 15 minutes. They [Pakistani army] called NATO and informed their counterparts on the other side of the border that they were being attacked," he said.

"What happened next was interesting because they [NATO] stopped [attacking] and then, only 15 minutes later, these helicopters came back and attacked the [Pakistani] checkpoints again.

"The Pakistanis said they did retaliate, they fired mortars and anti-aircraft shells, but that wasn't enough to turn the helicopters around."

Conference boycott

The Pakistani general's remarks come on top of the country's announcement of a boycott of an international conference in Germany on Afghanistan's future next week.

The Bonn conference is aimed at bringing all major stakeholders together in securing a peaceful Afghanistan after NATO combat troops leave at the end of 2014.

"Pakistan has decided not to attend the Bonn conference as a protest," a government official told the Reuters news agency after a cabinet meeting chaired by Yousuf Raza Gilani, the Pakistan prime minister, in Lahore.

Hillary Clinton, the US secretary of state, voiced regret on Wednesday over Pakistan's decision and urged it to reconsider.

Speaking at South Korea, Clinton said that the US stance that the border killing of Pakistani soldiers was a "tragic incident" and pledged an investigation "as swiftly and thoroughly as possible".

"Frankly this is regrettable that Pakistan has decided not to attend the conference in Bonn because this conference has been long in the planning," she said.

"Pakistan like the United States has a profound interest in a secure, stable and increasingly democratic Afghanistan," Clinton said.

Youtube video

Pakistan says the NATO attack on two combat outposts led to 13 people being wounded in addition to the deaths.

A YouTube video - said to show the aftermath of the NATO raid - has been shown on Pakistani television. It appears to show soldiers attending to the injured and the bodies of those killed in the attack.

Al Jazeera cannot independently verify the video's authenticity.

Pakistan shut NATO's supply routes into Afghanistan and ordered the US to leave an airbase in the southwest of the country immediately after the attack.
Pakistan held funerals for the slain soldiers on Friday

Al Jazeera's Tyab says that is much public anger in Pakistan over the attack.

"All across the country we have seen protests against the US," he said.

"People in Pakistan are saying they simply don't want the US to be in the region anymore. They want Pakistan to leave the so-called war on terror and break their alliance with US."

The checkpoint that was attacked had been recently set up in the Mohmand tribal area by the Pakistan army to stop Taliban fighters holed up in Afghanistan from crossing the border and staging attacks, according to two government administrators in Mohmand.

NATO has described the killings as a "tragic, unintended incident". US officials say a NATO investigation and a separate US one will seek to determine what happened.

The US investigation will provide initial findings by December 23, military officials said.

Earlier, Pakistan's foreign minister told the US of her "deep sense of rage" after NATO said it was probably to blame for the incident.

In a telephone conversation with Clinton, Hina Rabbani Khar said the attack was "totally unacceptable".

"They demonstrate complete disregard for international law and human life, and are in stark violation of Pakistani sovereignty," she said.
Source:
Al Jazeera and agencies

Pakistan calls NATO raid 'act of aggression' - Central & South Asia - Al Jazeera English

 

[Khan_patriot]

It would be a joy to see the Pakistani admin to deny NATO its supply routes and then the Russians doing the same and this would surely weaken the western imperialist dream..........