American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[Jango]

NATO is quoting an Afghan “border policeman” who saw that the fire was coming from the Pakistani posts.
Hence air support was called in


Question: where was this border policeman standing? On the order or was part of the team that was inside Pakistan?

Question: did he see fire coming from both posts? If yes then I say he got some super vision that is able to see 2 different check posts miles apart and from few kilometres away from his position.

Question: if the fire was only coming from one psot then why the other post was attacked too? Its on the premise if the NATO excuse is bought.

The other NATO statement is that the border is poorly marked.

Question: is their equipment and training also poor that they were unable to realise that they were deep inside Pakistan?

Question: did the pilots know what they were attacking? Did the mission HQ actually sent them on purpose to destroy the posts as suggested by the DGMO of Pakistan army?

Question: if the attack was unintentional as the NATO claims and they were loured into Pakistani posts by Taliban then did they forget the gradients of the Pakistani check posts in the heat of the moment?

Question: does NATO acknowledge the communications by Pakistanis to call off the attacks since they were attacking Pakistanis? If they do, does that not negate their claim that the attack was unintentional?


Question: why did the NATO decide that attacking both posts was necessary if their intention was not to destroy Pakistani posts and their story of chasing Taliban is to be bought? isn’t it odd and a consciences that they decided to attack the places where there were Pakistani designated check posts?


My guess is by 23rd of December this will be NATO’s finding.

The ISAF/ ANA were chasing Taliban and there was fire coming from where Pakistani positions were. Since the border is poorly marked so the perusing forces didn’t know a@ss from the elbow and relied on an Afghan border policeman who (location classified and adjusted to suit the story) decided that the fire was coming from 1 or 2 posts that were 2.5 KM inside Pakistan. From his genius a tactical situation arose and on that bases the air strikes were called in and they engaged one of the check post. And then they continued with the other post too where they received some retaliatory fire but destroyed that too.


So NATO is not at fault and neither the NATO commanders not the pilots can be blamed because.

1. An Afghan border policeman said that the fire was coming from Pakistan
2. The border is poorly marked .
3. Taliban could have led the helicopters / ISAF troops to Pakistani posts.
4. When the Pakistani posts came under attack they fired back so they had to be stopped.

I think, Pakistan army should have joined the investigation so that there is less chance of a cover up, unless if Pakistan army has evidence beyond doubt that the attack was premeditated and the posts were remarked for destruction in full knowledge that they were of Pakistan army and that’s why all radio communication was ignored and the attack continued on not one but both posts.

if that is true then expose NATO to the rest of the world and prepare for any similar future attacks like this.
reduce the diplomatic ties, break-up military cooperation and officer exchange/ training program (like command & staff, Gunnies staff etc).

order the closure of all CIA offices and seek the agents and deport them. Permanently stop the NATO supplies.
reduce the cooperation to the level of Turkey or even less and become a passive supporter of Afghan peaceful settlement.
This is the best Pakistan can do. If NATO doesn’t repeat that but if it repeats the attack then it should defend itself with all its force.

And the best part is, the Afghan policeman is a figment of imagination!!!

The DGMO , in the presence of CJS has said that first, the post Volcano was attacked, and was quickly terminated, and in response, post Boulder retaliated with small arms fire, and they were terminated as well.

The Tribal leaders called in a jirga and the tribals are ready to infiltrate into Afghanistan and fight if the GoP orders them!

 

[Jango]

If these laser guided missiles hit with pinpoint accruacy then you must support the Drone attacks which are taking out those terroists in FATA?

Pakistani terrority is used by these terrorists to launch attacks in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

As for those posts. They were recently established after Pakistan conducted a military operation in the region and took the region back from Taliban terrorists.

USA didn't use drones in this operation. Afghan commandos called in air strikes saying they were being bombed from locations within Pakistan. US send in Apache Gunships which fired missiles which killed our soldiers.

So all of this needs to be determined in a through, joint and impartial investigation.

How can you that the Afghans were bombed?

 

[Omar1984]

 

[Jango]

Is this imperial/colonial hubris or what? Essentially translates into "So who cares if some 20 or so darkies are dead. They will get over it." Pretty typical!

One can just imagine if 24 American or British had perished in a similar so called "friendly fire" incident, how the Western governments and media would have reacted and what they would have expected from Pakistan.

It puzzles me that if the West celebrates the deaths of each of their fallen so meticulously, how come this unnamed rascal is missing the point that our 24 were not some unnamed souls. Their deaths have angered Pakistanis immensely and this oversimplification of their deaths won't pacify Pakistanis that easily. The above comments have not a shred of bloody remorse!

KIAs:

Sepoy Tahir Mehmood
Sepoy Najibullah
Sepoy Kiramat Ali
Sepoy Nasir Mehmood
Sepoy Tariq Mehmood
Sepoy Naeem
Sepoy Ibrahim
Sepoy Ahmed Khurshid
Sepoy Asghar Abbas
Sepoy Hafiz Manzoor
Sepoy Abdul Razzaq
Sepoy Ghulam Abbas
Sepoy Rizwan
Sepoy Imran Yusuf
Lance Naik Tariq Mehmood
Lance Naik Raza Mohammad
Havaldar Mushtaq
Havaldar Aslam
Havaldar Mumtaz
Subedar Mannan
Captain Usman
Major Mujahid Ali Mirani

Had pakistan done it, there would have been news that the PA is nothing in reality, and poor standards and all that BS.

 

[Omar1984]

Offended Pakistan skips Afghan peace talks

Pakistan plans to boycott a key international meeting in Germany to discuss Afghanistan’s future. The measure follows in response to a recent NATO air strike which killed more than 20 Pakistani soldiers near the Afghan border.

*The decision to skip the Bonn international security conference on Afghanistan's future on December 5 was agreed at a meeting of the federal cabinet at the governor’s house on Tuesday evening.

The federal cabinet, headed by Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani, strictly condemned the NATO air strikes, considering them as an attack on the “sovereignty of Pakistan”.

“This is hardly the first time Pakistani sovereignty has been infringed by the United States. This seems to be the case that the United States regards Pakistan as a free fire zone. Which it is at liberty to abuse the country’s sovereignty with no need for apology or address,” John Rees from the Stop the War Coalition told RT.


PM Yousuf Raza Gilani promised there would be no more business as usual with Washington.

Pakistan believes that the NATO attacks on border check-posts in Mohmand tribal area near the Afghan border were deliberate and were carried out in violation of coordination procedures.


"The positions of the posts were already conveyed to the ISAF through map references and it was impossible that they did not know these to be our posts,” Director General Military Operations (DG MO), Maj Gen Ishfaq Nadeem told reporters on Tuesday.


But the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the border killing of Pakistan soldiers was a "tragic incident," and pledged an investigation "as swiftly and thoroughly as possible."

However, the Pakistani government has demanded that the US vacate an airbase used for drone attacks and has closed a vital US military supply route to Afghanistan.


“One third to one half of all of supplies that go to NATO forces go through Pakistan. This is going to have a major impact. No question about it,” explained former CIA officer Philip Giraldi, talking to RT.


Previously, the prime minister has stated that Pakistan’s relations with the United States can only continue with mutual respect and mutual interest and must be based on trust, equality and mutual benefit.


Meanwhile, the US has urged Pakistan to reconsider its decision to boycott a conference on Afghanistan.


Commenting on the boycott, US State Department spokesman Mark Toner said that the United States believes “it is very much in Pakistan's interest to attend this meeting.”


“It’s in their interests, so we think it is important that they be there,” Toner told reporters. “Pakistan has a crucial role to play in supporting a secure and stable and prosperous Afghanistan.”


Afghan President Hamid Karzai has also called for the Pakistani Prime Minister to reconsider the boycott.


It was said in the official statement that Afghanistan regards “Pakistan as an important country and is “optimistic they will attend the Bonn conference.”

PM Gilani’s office issued a statement confirming that Karzai had asked the prime minister to reconsider, but said: "How could a country whose own sovereignty and territorial integrity was violated from Afghan soil play such a constructive role?"


German Chancellor Angela Merkel has also said that she was “very sorry” about Pakistan’s decision and that she would try to convince the country to send a delegation.


“We are both interested in constructive development of Afghanistan,” Merkel, who will open the Bonn meeting, she said at the joint press conference with the King Abdullah II of Jordan.


The biggest rift between the two countries came six months ago when the US violated Pakistan’s sovereignty to assassinate Osama Bin laden.


Navy SEALs raided his compound keeping Pakistani intelligence in the dark about the operation, dealing a massive blow to the already-troubled relations.


Some experts believe America’s alliance with Pakistan has become less of a benefit and more of a liability.


“There are two clear choices for America today, historically speaking. Either to expand the war and come into Pakistan to open another front. It’s not going to be a joke. Pakistan can do things, in desperation, they can not even imagine. It can trigger a third world war and I am warning you. Second is that they decide to [get] out,” former Pakistani intelligence chief Hamid Gul told RT.


Offended Pakistan skips Afghan peace talks — RT

 

[illusion8]

nato cannot indefinitely isolate pakistan.

right now nato needs to remove any ammunition for pakistan to continue this stance, this means patching up with pakistan.

americans can be pragmatic when they need to, so they will look to mend this, BUT they have also laid the groundwork to marginalize pakistan, this is their intention, pakistan cannot change that, this seems to be the path.

therefore pakistan should look to hold their ground if nato have already decided to discard and demonise pakistan, because pakistan for this brief moment has the upper ground and can gain some concessions.

It seems like Pakistan is playing into the hands of the US by not going, it is an emotional decision rather than a rational one in not going, Pakistan should take long term policy decisions rather than knee jerk ones. I may be wrong though..

 

[iPhone]

All Military supplies are shipped via air transport.

They use Pakistan to transport non-lethal supplies such as Food, Medicine, Clothes, etc.

And they use Pakistan to transport 45% of their supplies. 55% goes through Central Asia and plus they have stockpiled 7 months of surplus suppliesp so even if all supplies are completely stopped they can go on for 7 months.

And besides, they can call on their aviation assets to rush in more supplies.

Russia tried the same thing in 1948 when they cut off Berlin from supplies, the Allies responded with the Berlin Airlift which kept the city running.

Pakistan thinks it has an Ace up its sleeve. But it doesnt.

Non lethal supplies like food and medicine etc: military has to eat right? Be treated and clothed, right? Hence the term military supplies. And I disagree that all those are non combative supplies as there are many reports of small arms being transported.

Seven months of supplies readily available: At what point would you start worrying going into your reserve knowing that incoming source has been either entirely stopped or is limited? I would say right at the moment you find out.

Alternate routes: I'm all for it. They can use whatever suitable and feasibility routes they want. We shouldn't be concerned. They think they do it wihout Pak, more power to them.

But what they won't do is economically punish Pakistan for non cooperation in this manner.

 

[alimukhtar]

It seems like Pakistan is playing into the hands of the US by not going, it is an emotional decision rather than a rational one in not going, Pakistan should take long term policy decisions rather than knee jerk ones. I may be wrong though..

Yes you are wrong, BONN Conf is not about us, its about Afghanistan & America, we were juz taking part as allied, but y we now?

 

[matrix_neo]

I hate to burst the bubble but in diplomatic terms, "expressing deep shock" is a very neutral response which neither supports Pakistan nor supports NATO. If China wanted to express solidarity with Pakistan in diplomatic terms, it would have "condemned" the attacks, one step below that would "expressed outrage", one step below would be "expressed regret" - "deep shock" in diplomatic terms in a not a statement of support.

man!!! u r a diplomacy expert!!!

 

[alimukhtar]

Pakistani think tank is thinking about to close the Naval Ports also for NATO... Sources......

 

[JonAsad]

Something evil came to my mind last night. Is there "memogate 2" currently running behind the scenes?


It might be very much possible. Who knows probably this time it will be army vs civilian govt. unlike "memogate 1" or maybe the same civilian govt. vs. army or maybe ................... (other options are also available)

Well yesterday night a thoguht came in my mind aswell-
Amrika used apache attack helicopter for the attacks on Pakistani post on 26/11-
Pleasing india No?-
1. India is buying apche?- Nice way for amrika to demonstrate its destructive capabilities?-
2. 26/11 will be the day of grief for Pakistani aswell- thus India Happy?-

One Arrow Two Targets?-
Or
Maybe vid of the attack will be shown to the indians as presentation of Apache capabilities?-

 

[regular]

Although I don't agree with you...I love reading you replies....they sound very gagster

Yes! ure right cuz U can't agree with my info cuz I know why ......cuz there are some pplz watching on U so that U might not say truth somewhere or accept it by anyways......
Oh ! BTW Yea! U right about my replies cuz I gotta keep watch on worlds gangsters so that they won't mess around so much with the innocent pplz......

 

[VCheng]

The famous drug addict

Nadeem F. Paracha - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am no "Nadeem Paracha" on ANY of the "qualities" you mention.

My views are simply mine, logical and impartial.

========================

To stay on topic, the supply routes should resume within one month.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

From so far what is present in public, it appears that NATO is on wrong side, but I am unable to digest why they will attack like told. I am strong supporter of US because I work here and want to have loyalties right. But still Pakistan's story is stronger.

I appreciate what you are saying and I also understand your concerns. you need to be careful what you say over the web in the country of dreams and freedom.

its noble to think independently and with out prejudice and people who do that make their name, the ones that do within the army are called soldiers of conscience and whistle blowers that’s what enabled to show the real war stories that NATO/ US tried to hide that included the gruesome incidents of collecting body parts of civilians by the American kill teams, what they did in jail and how they giggled while killing civilians and school children from helicopters in Iraq.

Do you recall the story of “saving” a female American soldier from Iraqi Hospital? It was dubbed as “saving private jane” and was later it was found out that there was no resistance and the only Iraqis the rescue team encountered were Iraqi medics and doctors that were attending the American female soldier.

The killing of a British hostage Linda Norgrove while trying to free her from Taliban was another story that was blamed on Taliban but was later on found out that it was the ruthless and careless use of grenades by the Americans that lead to her death, further revelations were hushed up.

Moving on, a young aspiring American football champion Pat Tillman decided to joined the army when 9/11 was fresh and became the face of the proud American saving its freedom, he died from the hail of bullets of his own comrades but his death was dubbed by the Pentagon and its propaganda machinery together with the “like minded” news media as a brave son who valiantly led his forces and died from Taliban fire. There are many stories and the might not be any more since the only organised whistle blowing organisation is going to loose its founder Julian once he is extradited to America.

Coming to our own incident, we already have so much bad press about us that the western media that whatever story or explanation will come out from NATO’s “investigation” will be readily accepted anyone else will be blamed for this attack bar the NATO or US. Who does it leave you with? The phantom Taliban or the dead Pakistanis.

I am sorry that you are having to read all this which might get you into trouble but since you showed a sign of someone who can comment beyond our (Indo-Pak) rivalry so I thought to share few things with you.

I will once again like to link my post if someone or you have missed it where I have picked up few scenarios and also have guessed the possible outcome of the NATO “investigation”.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...-unprovoked-night-attack-168.html#post2340361

 

[MilSpec]

mm. coming back to the topic of pakistan closing it's airspace, their seems to be bigger problem in pakistani establishment. Every major foreign affairs/geo-political decision in pakistan for last 3-4 years seems to be "reactionary". Foresight in geo-strategic domain is completely missing, and most of the major issues like afganistan, Taliban, drones, american spies, baluchistan, etc. seems to be coming from knee jerk reactions. Did pakistani establishment not realize that hot pursuit strikes may cause military casualties. This is not the first strike, there have been 7 others before this one. It seems that the civilian leadership is so heavily entangled in domestic politics that, issue for foreign policy has been neglected by the real players who are busy trying to play vote-bank tricks.

Unless pakistan finds, a strong leadership which can dictate its terms domestically, it will be hard for them put any pressure on US. Maybe someone who has the charismatic qualities of Z A bhutto, is the need of the hour?