American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[pakdefender]

@ WILL ALL PAKISTANIS STOP FEEDING THE INDIAN TROLLS REGARDING THE SUPPLIES AND THE MONEY AND ECONOMY & WHAT %AGE GOES FROM PAKISTAN AND WHAT NOT?

its totally irrelevant and feeding these trolls to derail the topic and post garbage.

Logistics are critical for a war , they cannot be ignored so its totally relevant to talk about using the supply routes to put the squeeze on enemy forces who are attacking us

 

[American Pakistani]

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

^^^ For all those who were doubting whether there would be any joint investigation with Pakistan as an investigating party.


^^^ For all those who think it was a deliberate NATO sanctioned attack to kill a few Pakistani troops... for what? Sh!ts n giggles??? This attack is a bigger loss to NATO than it is to Pakistan. For a nation or an army, troops can be replaced, but the opportunities and strategic moments and allies cannot. They are not fools to shoot themselves in the foot after coming so long into this war.



For once, I get the feeling that Afghan intelligence too might have played a part in this.

Regardless of whether or not a 'third party played a part in this', at best this is utter incompetence by NATO - smaller scale incidents like these have happened in the past several times, and Pakistan stopped supplies the last time as well, and Pakistan has exchanged information on the location of its posts several times.

How an authorization for air strikes on not just one, but two fortified Pakistani positions housing 50+ troops, could go ahead without a realization that the areas being targeted were Pakistani bases, appears rather inexplicable.

 

[American Pakistani]

Cargo trucks, including those carrying supplies to Nato forces in Afghanistan, are seen halted along the Pakistan-Torkham border, after it was shut down to traffic November 26, 2011. – Reuters Photo

 

[American Pakistani]

Foreign Minister Hina Rabbani Khar told Clinton Sunday Nov. 27, 2011 that the attack was unacceptable, showed complete disregard for human life and sparked rage within Pakistan. – AP File Photo.

In a joint statement, US Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton offered their “deepest condolences” and said they backed “Nato’s intention to investigate immediately.” – AFP File Photo

 

[Agni5000]

Cargo trucks, including those carrying supplies to Nato forces in Afghanistan, are seen halted along the Pakistan-Torkham border, after it was shut down to traffic November 26, 2011. – Reuters Photo

How many cargo trucks go to afghanistan per DAY for NATO supply?

 

[pakdefender]

You will not be able to do much, but in return you will be sent to stonge age.
Come out of dream and realize, you are peanuts infront on them, either by weapons or by money.

you'll find that out soon enough what we can and cannot do

 

[American Pakistani]

How many cargo trucks go to afghanistan per DAY for NATO supply?

Don't know exactly but it may be huge as visible from the picture which is just few hours after massacre.

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:15 PM ----------

Some videos by indian channals.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

He's speaking some truths. It's just everyone else is blinded by nationalism and bloodlust.

The opinion of the majority of Pakistanis here, based on the arguments made and information known so far, would be that it is VC and others supporting the NATO position that are the ones' blinded by a pathological hatred of the Pakistani Military and blood lust' - certainly the commentary by users in many Western media outlets (online) indicates a very high degree of the above, as a result of years of brainwashing and propaganda fed by the Western Establishment to the populace via the Western media.

 

[President Camacho]

Regardless of whether or not a 'third party played a part in this', at best this is utter incompetence by NATO - smaller scale incidents like these have happened in the past several times, and Pakistan stopped supplies the last time as well, and Pakistan has exchanged information on the location of its posts several times.

How an authorization for air strikes on not just one, but two fortified Pakistani positions housing 50+ troops, could go ahead without a realization that the areas being targeted were Pakistani bases, appears rather inexplicable.

Both the parties have exchanged fires in the past - despite all the communication in place. Both the parties have had losses in those fires too.

Such things happen in times of war, and yes - they are accidents, they are not deliberate actions, and they are not rare either. Remember how Pat Tillman died? That's a famous case - you must know. The NATO troops had great and sophisticated modes of communication between them, yet accident happened. Sinking of Seawise Giant? In fact quite a few times Pakistani troops too have killed their own! And so have others.

AM, I am not giving out judgements here. I am not saying Pakistani troops were harboring terrorists, and I am not even saying the fire from the chopper was to cover the infiltration of terrorists into Pakistani territory (It would be stupid to not just fire, but even kill so many simply to infiltrate the terrorists). But I strongly feel you are judging a bit too quickly, with nothing but your own speculation fueled with your bias in favor of Pakistani troops.

Patriotism, yes I understand it is a very powerful emotional force, but unless you know all the outcome of the investigation reports beforehand, or unless you were there at the post as well as in the chopper at the same time to witness everything that took place, you shouldn't be throwing such accusations with the confidence you show.

 

[53fd]

Both the parties have exchanged fires in the past - despite all the communication in place. Both the parties have had losses in those fires too.

Such things happen in times of war, and yes - they are accidents, they are not deliberate actions, and they are not rare either. Remember how Pat Tillman died? That's a famous case - you must know. The NATO troops had great and sophisticated modes of communication between them, yet accident happened. Sinking of Seawise Giant? In fact quite a few times Pakistani troops too have killed their own! And so have others.

AM, I am not giving out judgements here. I am not saying Pakistani troops were harboring terrorists, and I am not even saying the fire from the chopper was to cover the infiltration of terrorists into Pakistani territory (It would be stupid to not just fire, but even kill so many simply to infiltrate the terrorists). But I strongly feel you are judging a bit too quickly, with nothing but your own speculation fueled with your bias in favor of Pakistani troops.

Patriotism, yes I understand it is a very powerful emotional force, but unless you know all the outcome of the investigation reports beforehand, or unless you were there at the post as well as in the chopper at the same time to witness everything that took place, you shouldn't be throwing such accusations with the confidence you show.

No one's coming to any conclusions here, the fact of the matter is that NATO helicopters intruded deep (2.5 kms) into Pakistan, attacked two Pakistani outposts & killed 24 soldiers.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You won't have to do it Aryan, there's already a whole team in this forum that cheers, laughs, and dances at the news of NATO troops perishing in Afghanistan. Many actually claim to throng mithai shops, so they can celebrate those deaths in the most joyous ways possible.

Now let's count how many Americans have shown any sort of satisfaction/happiness at the news of the death of these 28 Pak soldiers... what do you say?

I would advise you to check out the comments sections of the major Western media outlets, as well as blogs like LWJ, to see the 'rejoicing Westerners' when tragedy hits Pakistan - and that attitude has been present for several years now.

Schadenfreude cuts both ways here - it isn't just exclusive to the Muslim world and/or Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 07:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:33 PM ----------

Both the parties have exchanged fires in the past - despite all the communication in place. Both the parties have had losses in those fires too.

Such things happen in times of war, and yes - they are accidents, they are not deliberate actions, and they are not rare either. Remember how Pat Tillman died? That's a famous case - you must know. The NATO troops had great and sophisticated modes of communication between them, yet accident happened. Sinking of Seawise Giant? In fact quite a few times Pakistani troops too have killed their own! And so have others.

AM, I am not giving out judgements here. I am not saying Pakistani troops were harboring terrorists, and I am not even saying the fire from the chopper was to cover the infiltration of terrorists into Pakistani territory (It would be stupid to not just fire, but even kill so many simply to infiltrate the terrorists). But I strongly feel you are judging a bit too quickly, with nothing but your own speculation fueled with your bias in favor of Pakistani troops.

Patriotism, yes I understand it is a very powerful emotional force, but unless you know all the outcome of the investigation reports beforehand, or unless you were there at the post as well as in the chopper at the same time to witness everything that took place, you shouldn't be throwing such accusations with the confidence you show.

'Friendly fire' during combat while deployed in a theater is understandable - 'friendly fire' against two fortified Pakistani Army positions whose location was communicated to ISAF several times is, as I pointed out, inexplicable, especially given the fact that much smaller scale events have occurred in the past and supposedly actions were taken to prevent them.

 

[lem34]

Both the parties have exchanged fires in the past - despite all the communication in place. Both the parties have had losses in those fires too.

Such things happen in times of war, and yes - they are accidents, they are not deliberate actions, and they are not rare either. Remember how Pat Tillman died? That's a famous case - you must know. The NATO troops had great and sophisticated modes of communication between them, yet accident happened. Sinking of Seawise Giant? In fact quite a few times Pakistani troops too have killed their own! And so have others.

AM, I am not giving out judgements here. I am not saying Pakistani troops were harboring terrorists, and I am not even saying the fire from the chopper was to cover the infiltration of terrorists into Pakistani territory (It would be stupid to not just fire, but even kill so many simply to infiltrate the terrorists). But I strongly feel you are judging a bit too quickly, with nothing but your own speculation fueled with your bias in favor of Pakistani troops.

Patriotism, yes I understand it is a very powerful emotional force, but unless you know all the outcome of the investigation reports beforehand, or unless you were there at the post as well as in the chopper at the same time to witness everything that took place, you shouldn't be throwing such accusations with the confidence you show.

president mate normally have a lot of time for your excellant posts. however on this occasion I must disagree with you. Nato know of these positions, they are in pakistani territory, secondly I would be happy to accept your suggestion if it had been 1 post that was attacked but two??

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Save your breath; this is the same type of misguided crowd that celebrated the murder of Salman Taseer too.

No it isn't - you make the typical 'Pakistani elite liberal fascist' mistake of conflating support for nationalist policies with support for regressive and extreme religious and cultural interpretations.

As I said, 'schadenfreude exists in both the West and Pakistan', though the West likes to pretend that its 'shite don't stink'.

 

[VCheng]

If you had been reading the thread instead of worrying about your own status you would have seen the article in the brit press in telegraph where they had interviewed the survivors who said it was an unprovoked attack, but then of course you wont belive it becuase its from a pakistani soldier

That is only their side of the story; a balanced view can only be formed when facts from both sides are known.

The following article speaks to what I believe is a dishonest and destructive argument of 'accept ground realities' on your part VC:

Pakistan has had enough​

The assumption that it has no choice but to obey America may turn out to be a dire strategic error

Simon Tisdall
guardian.co.uk, Sunday 27 November 2011 15.35 EST
Article history

............................
The belief that weak, impoverished, divided Pakistan has no alternative but to slavishly obey its master's voice could turn out to be one of the seminal strategic miscalculations of the 21st century. Alternative alliances with China or Russia aside, Muslim Pakistan, if bullied and scorned for long enough by its western mentors, could yet morph through external trauma and internal collapse into quite a different animal. The future paradigm here is not another well-trained Indonesia or Malaysia. It is the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Pakistan has had enough | Simon Tisdall | Comment is free | The Guardian

So an outcome where Pakistan is as isolated as Iran would be acceptable to you, with the economic troubles multiplied manifold over those of Iran due to a lack of oil and increasing social pressures?

You sure about that?

Foreign Office concludes Davis is not a diplomat

From your own source: "The Foreign Ministry has concluded that Raymond Davis, the American killer of two Pakistanis, is a non-diplomatic staff member of the US Consulate, who was given a certain level of immunity but not absolute immunity, it is learnt.". The nature of those "certain immunities"" was never clarified as to whether criminal charges could proceed.

Yea your posts are not dignified. explain how is this dignified when we are in mourning:


Soldiers DIE in the line of DUTY.

Fact.

Now stop wailing like little girls and face reality

You dont say this to americans do you when their soldiers die cos they would lynch you and chase you out of america

Please mourn in a dignified, and not hysterical, manner.

So you admit your posts are not based on facts concerning this incident? Why are you posting off-topic posts unrelated to the incident on this thread then?

I have been consistent is saying that let us wait for the final investigation report.

you'll find that out soon enough what we can and cannot do

Please be careful here; false bravado will get you nowhere. The capabilities of the Pakistani military are formidable indeed, but may not be as formidable as you would believe.

The opinion of the majority of Pakistanis here, based on the arguments made and information known so far, would be that it is VC and others supporting the NATO position that are the ones' blinded by a pathological hatred of the Pakistani Military and blood lust' - certainly the commentary by users in many Western media outlets (online) indicates a very high degree of the above, as a result of years of brainwashing and propaganda fed by the Western Establishment to the populace via the Western media.

I have no hatred against anyone or any entity, pathological or otherwise. I only analyze dispassionately and express the results truthfully.

Mark my words again: The Army will be the downfall of Pakistan. Many will disagree with this opinion, and i respect that, but to call the motivation mere hatred is wrong. The roots of that opinion are factual and logically supportable. The unfolding events will only serve to reinforce that opinion, sadly.