Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

[Skull and Bones]

Please don't compare Arabs with Pakistanis.

After Arabs were humiliated in 6 Day War, they asked for Pakistan's help and fought much better in 1973 War.

And Pakistan is not stupid to leave its planes lying around like this. They are secured in a tertiary layer of missiles and anti-aircraft batteries and hardened bunkers.

What's the latest SAM systems you have lately? Don't get me wrong but both India and Pakistan is using archaic SAM systems in the world.

 

[GORKHALI]

Thank you.

If war does break out between India and Pakistan, our first attempt would be to sneak infiltrators into major Indian bases and cause havok and destroy large number of Indian Planes.

Then we will deploy our frontline missile batteries to shoot down any incoming Indian planes. Once Indian Air Force has taken a major punishment and retreated to lick its wounds, then our air force would establish an air superiority area over the battlefield and take out Indian Ground Forces which will pave the way for Pakistani Ground Forces to penetrate deep into India and sieze territory to be used in bargaining to end the conflict.

The key is to damage the Indian Air Force in a ground attack and get them to attack Pakistan in which they will run into the teeth of Pakistan SAM Batteries.

Good to see you are playing C&C too much these days.

Still Going to Put everything in place here ,just for you my friend.....

1> India is not Pakistan, where even rag tag army attack and damage planes in worth millions .What do you think IAF bases are sitting duck ??
There much more SAM cover and LR radars in western border which are suffice for PAF to think 10 times before raiding any Indian base..

2> Once raided, you going to witness lots of anti radiation and ALCM pounding your bases which are not far from Indian border.

So keep you SAM to your pants...


3> IAF even in past always maintain Air superiority,and with new induction of Su 30mki it's growing 10 folds...

 

[JonAsad]

Then you have not seen international discussion forums....

Nothing in a forum is obvious unless pointed out, it really creates a very bad impression doing that.

Ruined or not, I will point out such tactics because they degrade the whole dicussion, and if you might have noticed we were already off-topic..

Also, I did not have the info before hand, i just did a google search because in another thread he did the same and other members pointed it out..

You have time you go ahead verify every sources- and take the discussions to scoring brownie points- while other people have other obvious interests- discuss the content prove it right or wrong- if the content is fake then the source et all automatically becomes vague- we do not need to post authors name- para no. And article no in every post we make-

 

[Wickerman]

India has 29 air bases against Pakistan as compared to about 6 odd against China. Though against China, IAF infrastructure is being improved in order to accommodate new inductions, no major additional airbase(s) has been announced as yet. Which means that against China only limited number of such aircraft squadrons can be accommodated and it is Pakistan where they have sufficient available space to induct additional aircraft squadrons.

This is because of their defence strategy against a two-front war environment, wherein India plays a deterring defence against Pakistan and dissuasive defence against China, though China has been declared as their number one enemy. Such a strategy does have an inherent disadvantage with regard to Indian response against China - they can not place more than what they can accommodate against China.

China has been "declared" the number one enemy not BECAUSE they are the number one enemy, but because they are a good reason to cite in order to increase military spending. It does not actually indicate that India is worried about a Chinese attack as much as it is worried about an attack by Pakistan or by Pakistan backed insurgents/mercenaries.

India' strategy for defence has always been one of deterrence. India will never initiate an attack either against Pakistan or against China. However when it comes to China, the probability of a Chinese attack on Indian borders, is miniscule. The 1962 attack was one of retaliation in response to Nehru's forward policy, and since then China has had 3 opportunities to attack, one even backed by the United States AT A TIME WHEN INDIA WAS MOST VULNERABLE AND AT A TIME INDIA WAS INVOLVED IN A 2 FRONT WAR. The fact that they did not, and the fact that not a single shot has been fired across the borders for 45 years, eliminates any undue necessity for panic.

However, Pakistan is considered "unstable" in this regard. We can never be sure when Pakistan will initiate an attack, and we have had this experience 3 times since independence. Also as sancho said a lot of these airbases serve both purposes, to protect the west as well as the east.

You see this where your strategic thinking is at odds within the three services and with the geopolitical environment that prevail and is emerging. This also highlights the lack of strategic thought and space given therein. Whereas Indian navy talks big about being the dominant force in Indian Ocean, Indian army talks about naxalites and problems in Nepal and Sri Lanka and Maldives and Bangladesh etc etc. The thinking between the two major elements of Indian defence forces are out of sync and if these are out of sync how are they going to maintain the power projection India so vociferously talks about.

Nahin yaar, you didn't ruin it. Why should I be angry with you.

Yes, lesson learned, and moved much ahead than being perceived.

Naxalites and problems in neighboring areas HAVE to be taken up by the Indian Army. I am sure you understand that the naxalite problem cannot be tackled by the Indian navy, as it is not even their turf. The Indian Army is tasked with protecting the homeland and as such they have every right to talk about every problem that they perceive. However this doesnt even mean anything when it comes to war between nations. It doesnt undermine the coordination that exists between the 3 branches of the armed forces. Traditionally this has been Pakistan's weak point in just about every war they have fought. There has been a lack of coordination and communication, not just because of lack of infrastructure but because of the internal power politics at play in the Pakistani armed forces leadership. You say, the lessons have been learnt and that you have moved on, but how much you have moved on remains to be seen. Till about a decade back, you hadn't moved anywhere, so I dont foresee Pakistan being able to conduct a coordinated attack against India, with all 3 branches of the armed forces acting in sync. However I wouldnt underestimate Pakistan. But this isnt something India suffers from. Therefore the Indian Army talking about domestic issues in no way undermines the coordination that actually exists between the 3 branches. Its every much the Indian Army's right to talk about these things, and they should.You draw extraordinary and baseless conclusions from this, I mean your argument doesnt even follow.

As for the power projection, am not sure what you are talking about, because India rarely, if ever projects any power or even talks about it. This I think is both a blessing and a curse. On the one hand India comes across as a soft power, and on the other hand, India keeps a low profile while gaining more and more international credibility.

Yeah, the five odd bases in Indian Occupied Kashmir may be able to look after the Chinese side, but would their division of assets be able to look after both sides - a rather difficult proposition as these bases can accommodate only a specific number of aircraft.

However, it is NE India where the main Chinese interest lies, and here IAF bases in the west can not support directly.

While assessing threat, various contingencies are prepared. Within the India Pakistan China tri-lateral imbroglio, a variety of contingencies can be prepared. Some of these may be:

A war with only China.

A war with only Pakistan.

A war on both Pakistani and Chinese fronts.

There can be many other variables which could be brought in. Each of these have their own set of circumstances which can unfold and create a varied set of environments which may have different responses on offer.

A war with China, and Pakistan only mobilizes but does not interfere.

A war with Pakistan, and China only mobilizes but does not interfere.

Each of the above would require a different set of responses. Which would have a direct and indirect effect on the war.

The thing is there wont be a 2 front war. There is negligible probability that China will attack at a time when its economy is booming and its political credibility in the world is just starting to increase. In case of a war between Pakistan and India, a Chinese deployment on the Indian borders can very well provoke the United States to mobilize on its eastern front. Am sure China wouldnt want that, and therefore they will refrain from any sort of hostile actions. Also China historically has always only looked out for itself and its well being, and as such wont interfere, as has been proved 3 times before, as I have already stated. They will however support you through materially and morally. This is of no consequence to India as Pakistan does not have that much of purchasing power anyway. So all of those possibilities you listed, about China mobilizing or attacking India is mere conjecture and fluff at this point.

As for the nuclear option. India has a no first use policy. Given the fact that neither Pakistan nor China has the capability to actually Invade India, this option is ruled out. India on the other hand wont ever initiate an attack, either against Pakistan or China, so Pakistani or Chinese usage of such weapons is also ruled out. China will not attack, and therefore our usage of nukes against them is also ruled out. In short there wont be any nuclear war between all 3 countries for the foreseeable future. Nor will those thresholds ever be crossed.

 

[SamantK]

You have time you go ahead verify every sources- and take the discussions to scoring brownie points- while other people have other obvious interests- discuss the content prove it right or wrong- if the content is fake then the source et all automatically becomes vague- we do not need to post authors name- para no. And article no in every post we make-

While copying the article the link is not so taxing(no need for para et al. ), what computer are you using

 

[veekysingh]

Yeah, China has India centric mentality as well as in the long term other potential enemies to look at, that is why its having lot of its assets based there, plus for a long time they have been making their infrastructure strong just across the Indian border, as they fear more of a Sino-Indo conflict in the short term.

same goes with india too , cause no one know what and when PA will plan and do. and pakistan us a unstable country so india need more assets to keep it in control.

 

[JonAsad]

While copying the article the link is not so taxing(no need for para et al. ), what computer are you using

I am not using a computer- i use birds- -

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Yeah, China has India centric mentality as well as in the long term other potential enemies to look at, that is why its having lot of its assets based there, plus for a long time they have been making their infrastructure strong just across the Indian border, as they fear more of a Sino-Indo conflict in the short term.

No way . China is not India centric at all .

Their politics and public discourse shows that their main enemies and concerns still lie to their East like Japan , Taiwan , South Korea, Vietnam etc . then comes America and finally perhaps India .

The same way even though India feels a little threatened by China , the main enemy due to historical reasons will be Pakistan for the forseeable future .

The fact that India and China have hardly had any major conflict in the last 65 years of independence explains this

 

[peep]

hey.. the thread after 12 pages didnt turn into open defecation and cousins blowing their grandfathers etc.. this itself is an achievement for pdf

 

[DrSomnath999]

thank god i was not logged on earliear or else it would ruined my night

 

[sancho]

Thanks....! Sometimes emoticons make a world of difference

Another question, if I may : Aren't threat perceptions multi-layered which is to say isn't Pakistan truly a much more probable adversary for India to go to war too & yet because China too looms over she (India) cannot afford to ignore China either.

In such a scenario doesn't Sancho's assertion that the airbase under question is located thus that it is suitable to engage either China or Pakistan depending upon whence the threat arises, both a more realistic response to the threat assessment under question & a good one at that ?...

Or am I reading too much into this ?

The point is, people often only want to see what THEY belive is the truth, no matter how the reality looks like and by ignoring the facts.

- Ambala is an airbase with Mig 21 Bisons, the fighter that Rafale is meant to replace
- Ambala as shown is pretty much in the middle to Pakistani and Chinese borders
- IAF has upgraded Mig 29 UPG and MKIs closer to the Pakistani border and in that area (which actually will be the fighters PAF would have to face), while they don't have any similar fighter towards the Chinese borders in the north
- IAF is mainly replacing older fighters with new once alongside the western border at already existing air bases, while they are raising new air bases in the East and even in the South to counter "new" threats
...

All this shows, that IAF has no big interest to counter PAF with any new moves except of the natural modernisations on the western side, while the really new things happens on the other borders!
China is clearly the focus with new air bases, MKI and Rafale squads facing their borders. Another one is costal defence, which is obvious when you see that 2 x squads of LCA MK1 at least 2 x MKI squads will be raised in the south and the south east.
And again, all they did at the western costlines was, to moderinise Jaguar IM and Mig 29 with new anti ship missiles.

 

[Tumba]

India has 29 air bases against Pakistan as compared to about 6 odd against China. Though against China, IAF infrastructure is being improved in order to accommodate new inductions, no major additional airbase(s) has been announced as yet. Which means that against China only limited number of such aircraft squadrons can be accommodated and it is Pakistan where they have sufficient available space to induct additional aircraft squadrons.

This is because of their defence strategy against a two-front war environment, wherein India plays a deterring defence against Pakistan and dissuasive defence against China, though China has been declared as their number one enemy. Such a strategy does have an inherent disadvantage with regard to Indian response against China - they can not place more than what they can accommodate against China.

Its seems so , cause pakistan is crazy monkey next door holding nukes and supporting islamic terrorism in india... On the other hand chinese are much clever they will never risk full blown war with india... They will fight till the last pakistani with india... Going by this suicidal nature of ignorants pakistanese india must always be on alarm against pakistan .. I hope i cleared all ur doubts now...

 

[arbit]

Does that extend to tactical nukes ?

Our 'No First Use' Nuclear policy dictates that 'Nuke attack anywhere on any Indian target would merit a disproportionate response designed to inflict unacceptable damage on the aggressor.' Read TOTAL ANNIHILATION or at least we will go friggin ballistic with everything we got.

China will survive our humble capability. For you its game over.

Another thing. You guys misread our resolve and expected level of response in 1992 and were completely unprepared.

Are you sure once you have used a tactical nuke. you will dictate the pace of war thence and it will not escalate like in Kargil.

I read somewhere, Mr. Jinnah said now nothing can 'undo Pakistan'. How wrong. His own countrymen are willing to lose Pakistan just to save face. Priceless.

Would have been better, if you just prepared a nuclear hand grenade. what a bunch of imbeciles.

 

[Ticker]

Its seems so , cause pakistan is crazy monkey next door holding nukes and supporting islamic terrorism in india... On the other hand chinese are much clever they will never risk full blown war with india... They will fight till the last pakistani with india... Going by this suicidal nature of ignorants pakistanese india must always be on alarm against pakistan .. I hope i cleared all ur doubts now...

I am indeed impressed by the number of dots placed between various sentences.

 

[Ticker]

No way . China is not India centric at all .

Their politics and public discourse shows that their main enemies and concerns still lie to their East like Japan , Taiwan , South Korea, Vietnam etc . then comes America and finally perhaps India .

The same way even though India feels a little threatened by China , the main enemy due to historical reasons will be Pakistan for the forseeable future .

The fact that India and China have hardly had any major conflict in the last 65 years of independence explains this

However, various Indian defence ministers have repeatedly named China as India's number one enemy.

You are stating that China is not all India centric.

Is it China's magnanimity or India's inconsequentiality.