Aman Ka Tamasha

[villageidiot]

I'm not Pakistani but yes, it is very much a self harming position to take. One that deprives people on both sides of the economic benefits trade can and will provide.

Pak planners, understandably, are and will be a bit wary of any such if it ever comes to it but it'll still be the smartest thing to do.

China exports all that over 1000s of miles of sea routes, their/your CPEC land route will never be as efficient/cost effective as simply crossing the damn border. Remember, China is a civilization based overwhelmingly on its far east coast.. idhar to ghostland hai, not much industry to their west bordering Pak at all.

Here, Haryana, Punjab products can easily cross over.. even Mumbai/Gujarat to Karachi etc sea route is no problemo.

China k saath you're plagued with logistical issues which results in more expensive goods to Pakistan.

Indian auto products good.. I wish to see a future where Mahindra, TATA, Bajaj, Eicher motors (royal enfield) can set up production in Pk to serve Pk.

Sun'nay me bohut acha he. The potential is great. Made me think of this. Here's to you, indians, from a Pakistani. @Paitoo @Krptonite @Joe Shearer

 

[Krptonite]

Sun'nay me bohut acha he. The potential is great. Made me think of this. Here's to you, indians, from a Pakistani. @Paitoo @Krptonite @Joe Shearer

Khayali pulao hi chal raha hai, another life hai aesa hi samajhlo. Now think like an entrepreneur and come up with ways to sell stuff for Momin Inc. And be a Pakistani billionare living in a developed Pakistan. Theres like a billion gullible customers next to the fence and 200 million domestic ones, if one cant even think to tap this economic potential one deserves to be poor

Future generations need not inherit our problems or better yet are capable of solving them.

 

[Olympus81]

Yes but, sadly, there's not much we can do. And we had to make some kind of statement after the revocation of Kashmiri statehood., merely sending the ambassador back isn't enough.

Valid point. The changing of status of J&K hit the breaks for Pakistan and improve any improvement in relations with India during the time would have been political suicide.

I guess it is a good time to take those baby steps.

The Indians will try their best to play the game of deceit when it comes to Kashmir, and paint Pakistan as the country taking the extremist position, but Pakistan should be smart about it.

 

[Mentee]

After the Ridda wars, the Rashidun Caliphate decided to use the Arab warriors that had gathered under Islam against Sassanid and Byzantine Empire

So what was the end result of going against The Almighty ? The Persians literally infiltrated and fabricated the very essence of Al Islam and there's no one to be blamed but the people who sanctioned such military campaigns.

 

[villageidiot]

Would you and Olympus join in, when we get going seriously?

I am honored that you would consider me for a serious discussion but I'd like to state something.

Firstly, I have no qualms in admitting I am seriously under-qualified for most serious topics, let alone one of trade and economy.

Secondly, I just quit my job yesterday and am on here just shooting the proverbial shit and passing time. But, I like the topic and would love to see a serious discussion on it, although the prospects seems dim.

Thirdly, and this is related to the first one, when conversing with educated people such as yourself, I try to go by the golden adage attributed to Mark Twain:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

P.S. May I invoke the @M. Sarmad . I see his is in the thread. You can have a serious conversation with him. He's as serious as they come (a compliment. )

 

[Krptonite]

Valid point. The changing of status of J&K hit the breaks for Pakistan and improve any improvement in relations with India during the time would have been political suicide.

I guess it is a good time to take those baby steps.

The Indians will try their best to play the game of deceit when it comes to Kashmir, and paint Pakistan as the country taking the extremist position, but Pakistan should be smart about it.

A transactional relationship is by definition not bound by sentiments.

A relationship where both act in self interest witin the purview of agreed upon rules would be beneficial.

If England and France despite centuries of acrimony can do it, why cant we?

Why cant we fight with rupees and with bullets and bombs?

 

[-=virus=-]

seriously under-qualified for most serious topics, let alone one of trade and economy.

mera bhi ye hi hisaab hai

full masti kro, bas

forum pe 100% srs energy to @jamahir bhikari types hi kar skte h

what a waste lol

 

[Krptonite]

The only one who will be benefitting for next half century, between India and Pakistan is Dubai.

This is not going to change, do what you want. Not even the powers on both sides, have the balls to change this.

Time.

With what certinity can you predict the global political scenario for the next 70 years.

What is the probability that as newer generations become adult citizens, they can come up with a workable solution.

Is it for certain zero?

 

[brational]

Foreign trade is based on competitive advantage, Cost benefit analysis, Production & Consumption pattern and Supply Chain. Pakistan does not have anything that can not be sourced from other countries or not produced in India.

Not all Pakistani cotton are having the finest quality. Generally the finest quality cotton find it's way to the west including a large chunk of Indian cotton.

Australia mines rock salt too. Himachal Pradesh also has rock salt mines. We extract small quantity due to ecological/environmental issues. There are large deposits of salt in uttarakhand, Rajasthan but extracting is not the priority.

Now, trade does not happen on assumptions. It depends on Reliability, Security and Payment terms. Exchange rates are also critical. It is a viable option for Pakistan only if India imports goods from Pakistan.

So, trade with Pakistan is not in India's favor.

 

[Krptonite]

I think the main reason the Pakistan will not trade with India:

• Indian goods will flood Pakistani market, as almost every thing they produce, India too produces at lower cost(due to economy of scale).
• Army & Political parties AFAIK has lot of stake in the market/economy, so overwhelming Indian import will hamper their profit.
• Political/Psychological reasons(Kashmir)

There are policy mechanisms that are used to address exactly such a scenario. They allow for domestic industry to adjust for the abovementioned shocks and in the long term are very beneficial for a nations economic health.

When those who own businesses figure out that they can now grow at an unprecedented rate, conflict, religion, social considerations conspicuously disappear. Best to plan taking account for such a human impulse.

You're right that the current economic order in Pakistan would be threatened by free trade, but again if the numbers suggest overwhelming profit in favor of free trade the only hurdle then is time not policy.

Conversely we are an energy hungry nation. Our energy needs such as commodities like oil, fuel and gas for developing 1.5 billion people would be gigantic. Our geographic position sits cheek by jowl with energy surplus nations from the middle east and central asian states.

Given enough diplomatic potential it is not improbable that a energy line from Iran and these central asian states passing from pakistan to India could be made operational. Serves as a literal jugular artery connecting our nations.

We will always be a energy hungry nation with not enough mineral deposits to sustain them. So we would need to always produce something to pay for the things we need to buy. Energy through Pakistan is multiples cheaper than energy products through the sea. Cheaper energy means cheaper products and the cost savings trickle down to every aspect of the economy.

 

[Joe Shearer]

who were not only physically superior to local Dravidians, but more intelligent as well.

Do you even know what you are talking about?

1. The immigrants were not dealing with Dravidians, but with the mixture of local hunter-gatherers and refugees from the expiring Indus Valley Civilisation.
2. The mixture was minuscule. Judging from the example of other instances of immigrants dominating the politics (=rule) of a region, and the language spoken there, this is generally about 10%.
3. That was true of the region between the Yamuna and the Thar Desert and the Western Ghats, the Satpura hills as well. That is a territory that exceeds the present geographical extent of Pakistan.
4. These immigrants were gradually swallowed up in the autochthones, the further east they went. By the time the Ganges-Yamuna combine met the Brahmaputra, there was between 10 to 30% Tibeto-Burmese DNA, along with the hunter-gatherer stock.
5. Coming to the 'intelligence' part - most of the discoveries, interrupted science though they were, were in the Gangetic plains, in the wetlands of the Godavari, the Krishna and the Kaveri, and, most dramatically, in the Kerala region. Only the utterly ignorant would consider the intelligence of the Indus Valley inhabitants to be superior on the grounds of their intellectual achievements, because the only significant ones were the development of Sanskrit in or around Takshashila, and the development of a very polished version of Mahayana Buddhist doctrine in the Kashmir region, that being the version that the Kushana spread over central Asia and possibly into China; the other source of Buddhism in China coming from a mixture of Kerala and Bengal scholars.

[deleted with apologies to @Eskander]

That said, imagine thinking the cognitive development and intellectual potency of a nation can be reduced to material conditions ( we earn more than you ). I'm not surprised by your reasoning. We are currently living in the age of Kali Yuga where "Becoming" is prioritized over "Being" , "action" over "contemplation", "body" over "soul".

Ooh, we know about Kali Yuga!

Remember, the Rig Veda and Upanishads were written by my ancestors in ancient Pakistan. We are the people of Indus Valley civilization

The Indus Valley Civilisation had nothing to do with the immigrants. If you had read up on the Rakhigarhi DNA analysis, you might have understood this.

While the Rg Veda might have been written in the upper reaches of the Indus and the Yamuna, the Upanishads certainly had little or nothing to do with that region. They were written much later, at a time when the centre of gravity of that culture had shifted to the Gangetic Doab.

[deleted, with apologies]

But do you seriously think Pakistanis and Indians even belong to the same species, let alone the same race

Yes.

They belong to a common profile known as ANI.

Find out. Read. Stop posting before you have equipped yourself.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Only 3-5% of Indians can pass as Pakistanis

50% of Indians live in the south. Trust me, none of them, and not even the north Indians, have the slightest desire to pass as Pakistanis.

Try this test.

Check how many Indians living abroad try to pass themselves off as Pakistanis. Don't bother to check the opposite.

But do you seriously think Pakistanis and Indians even belong to the same species, let alone the same race

Only 3-5% of Indians can pass as Pakistanis

Do you ever wonder why Bollywood is dominated by Pathans and Punjabis ?

@villageidiot

I too felt like laughing, until I went through the whole sorry set of posts.

Now I feel outraged.

How can a country let such uneducated opinions go unchecked?

Having said that, I realised with a twinge that this is a mirror reflection of our own bhakts, and with the same antecedents and backgrounds - a mish-mash of religious and ethnic prejudices sloshing around within uncritical minds.

don't waste your energy on Diogenes here

he'll just piss on your shoes some more

he may even fart in your face

Yes, but look at the posts of @villageidiot and that totally engrossing post from @M. Sarmad (I wish I had written it).

There are definitely people that we can take delight, pleasure and pride in engaging in a serious conversation.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Ummayads were incredibly based. It's normal to persecute those who want you to take away your political power. That's just how it was back in the days.

I like how you ignored the Rashidun Caliphate. Offensive warfare was sanctioned by none other than Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar Farooq (ra), two of the greatest companions. The Ummayads simply carried on the imperialistic project.

After the Ridda wars, the Rashidun Caliphate decided to use the Arab warriors that had gathered under Islam against Sassanid and Byzantine Empire

The idea that Islam doesn't allow offensive warfare is the greatest lie ever told.

Notice this Salafi Sheikh says it's only not allowed when you don't have sufficient power. If you are powerful, offensive Jihad is permissible

Insha Allah, we will do this to India one day

Here we go, again.

Indo-Pak people are literate jaahil to the core . There is so much potential to uplift the standard of living on both sides but their tinny little egos coupled with superstitious mumbo jumbo always end up sabotaging the obvious .

Blunt, but accurate.

 

[arjunk]

Try this test.

 

[PDF]

Imagine thinking Pakistanis and Indians are similar or that there can be any peace between us

View attachment 928153
View attachment 928154

VS

View attachment 928155

Quaid-e-Azam once did think it was possible. But later circumstances convinced him to against being proud of the title of ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity, atleast about in geographical terms.

Ambassador of Hindu-Muslim unity: Jinnah's early politics

researchers.mq.edu.au