Alleged blasphemy: Mob burns 100 Christian homes in Lahore

[Huda]

Stupid people.

It was drama by PPP.

I heard that this drama was created because of land dispute

 

[Ayush]

This is a sad incident that is a curse on the face of humanity. The terrorists have murdered a great number of people and these men who are their moral supporters should all be punished severely. LEJ, TTP and other terrorist groups are extremely dangerous adversaries who do not believe in Pakistan (Jinnah was Shia!!!)... since they believe Shias are not Muslim.

Christians are in Pakistan because they were sure we would provide them protection and have great ties with them. Cornelius would be turning in his grave if he saw what our Christian brothers are going through. We have to defend Pakistani citizens and treat them as equal regardless of race, ethnicity and religion. We are one and in this difficult time I stand with my Christian brothers. I do not lie here. Our bond is beautiful and we stand under one flag united.

A sad little day in the history of Pakistan. I can't believe after all our family and many others like it went through in India, the persecution, the bias, the discrimination... we are doing the same to our minorities

not same havi but more. This has become a very serious issue now.

 

[Spring Onion]

I heard that this drama was created because of land dispute

no the two bastaards the Christian and the Muslim who fought with each other after being drunk. the two idiots are said to be close friend.

Whereas the entire drunkard fight was hijacked by political rats and thus the bigger damage

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Yeah i went to their mosque and most of them were jahil(illiterate)

i suppose you are talking about their women, what were women doing in a mosque?

 

[Huda]

no the two bastaards the Christian and the Muslim who fought with each other after being drunk. the two idiots are said to be close friend.

Whereas the entire drunkard fight was hijacked by political rats and thus the bigger damage

i know it yara but i heard in news that some morons used this fight for their interest

 

[Huda]

i suppose you are talking about their women, what were women doing in a mosque?

I am not objecting on wahabis as my brothers are also wahabi and the daras by their imam was very good..

But the situation at women side was too unbelievable during salah they are doing weired acts..Like we pray salah by other method and they were praying with their method and it is forbidden to break namaz but they were continuosly doing sch acts by which we were disturing like talking,etc ..And i asked my brother about it he said no their is no conception in men to act like this and i don't know why the women were doing this and so many other things i saw their ...

 

[Developereo]

Not so fast - first of all intolerance and divisiveness is not what Islam is about BUT it is what Wahabism is about

You raise a valid point about what to do if someone promotes nefarious ideas under the garb of Islam. Without getting into the specifics of whether Wahhabism is as you describe -- not because I disagree but simply because I don't know enough and my comment applies regardless -- I would again say that we should focus our message on the positive.

We should teach kids and our media should broadcast an inclusive vision of Islam and make it clear that anything and anyone (unspecified) that preaches otherwise is contrary to Islam.

I think we should give people enough credit that they will put 2+2 together, especially if we reign in the mullahs and institute strict controls over what is preached in the mosques, etc.

The whole point is to have a strategy which will future proof us against any other ideology that is thrust upon us to divide us. We don't want to create custom campaigns for every threat when a single, coherent and simple message will work just as well.

 

[muse]

We should teach kids and our media should broadcast an inclusive vision of Islam and make it clear that anything and anyone (unspecified) that preaches otherwise is contrary to Islam.

I think we should give people enough credit that they will put 2+2 together, especially if we reign in the mullahs and institute strict controls over what is preached in the mosques, etc.

The whole point is to have a strategy which will future proof us against any other ideology that is thrust upon us to divide us. We don't want to create custom campaigns for every threat when a single, coherent and simple message will work just as well.

We had that - that's not new, it's well intentioned but not new -- fact of the matter is that these "ideologies" have not entered Pakistan by accident - and will not leave us unless made to -- call me old fashioned but "Friend from Foe" is something we can all relate with.

I know where your heart is and you may be right, but for slow learners like me, it's very important to identify the enemy, I realize you are saying things along the same line but where you refuse to put a name to this objectionable ideology, I think it's necessary == either way, what both you and I are suggesting is that without the support of the state, it is going to very difficult indeed to make a dent against this Wahabi ideology

 

[Hyperion]

Mate, you are totally correct about the wider "wahabiat" problem, however, our focus at the moment can not be to fight a global-war against it (we simply don't have the capacity and can't afford it), but a regional war within Pakistan. Once we are done with that, and our country is relatively stable, we can sit down and strategize about how to get even. But all that will come later. I agree to a certain degree with @Developereo, that we have to be a bit pragmatic about it.

Not so fast - first of all intolerance and divisiveness is not what Islam is about BUT it is what Wahabism is about - It's VERY important to NAME the enemy, Very important to IDENTIFY what is objectionable and what is carryng this objectionable message.

To argue on one hand that one is no fan of Wahabism and on the other hand to suggest that to Name and Identify Wahabism as objectionable is to attack Islam, seems to me, as less than honest, we can't appear to be seen as speaking from both sides, it robs us of credibility and it insults peoples intelligence.

See, if Unity, tolerance, pluralism, an acceptance of the reality that there as many ways to get to God as there are Faithful, that love of Humanity is love of God, that Mercy, Compassion and Forgiveness are the well spring of Redemption, IS Islam, who would object?? See ideas Matter, because ideas are VALUE Laden, we accept and promote some values and MUST reject others as harmful as they are sacrilegious, misguided. Isn't this so??

Indeed, it is, and so we must not be afraid to NAME and SHAME and IDENTIFY that which we ASSERT is good and right and that which we ASSERT is Bad and Wrong - Wahabism is not the totality of Islam - and Islam is not some brittle fossil that cannot bear examination - Islam e Zinda = MussaIman e Zinda - in the present, Conscious and Decision making, responsible, not a automaton

 

[Dubious]

What i meant was this that for a person to become true fundamentalist,he/she should be trained from childhood.Most of the inclinations regarding race,religion and caste are formed within first 5-7 years .I was quoting a point which i have read.There was no reason for blowing up for that.

@anonymus quoting and questioning is part of learning in fact both in Islam as well as open minded freedom speakers SHOULD and DO ask questions...Sorry If you felt it as a explosion!!

 

[muse]

I'm not suggesting of any kind of war against another country -- our war is in our own country - and if we cannot even be masters there then we have no country

 

[laiqs@mi]

I'm not suggesting of any kind of war against another country -- our war is in our own country - and if we cannot even be masters there then we have no country

you been alway b.sing sunni shia.
here what shia say about sunni's

Sunni's are kafir's and shia cant marry a sunny.

now say that which sunni come and declare shia's kafir(infedal) shia's call us sunnis kafirs.

 

[Dillinger]

Mate, you are totally correct about the wider "wahabiat" problem, however, our focus at the moment can not be to fight a global-war against it (we simply don't have the capacity and can't afford it), but a regional war within Pakistan. Once we are done with that, and our country is relatively stable, we can sit down and strategize about how to get even. But all that will come later. I agree to a certain degree with @Developereo, that we have to be a bit pragmatic about it.

We've talked about this before too and I have to concur with @muse- without defining the opposition how can one oppose it- using the proper name to denote any such movement or ideology is of paramount importance. But, even a layman like me sitting here in India knows who underwrites the Wahabi operations (and you know it better than me). The amount of funding is mind boggling- and the underwriter has a big stick- pull the plug on them and the backlash is severe. Any strategy to counter such poisonous ideologies will have to be nuanced, SA may be cooperating under the new King to stop Wahabi funded activities that are against Pakistan's national interests, BUT- IF Pakistan attacks the very core of wahabi ideology then don't you think SA and the Gulf states will take umbrage to that one way or the other?

 

[laiqs@mi]

i could not found another place or did not wanted to open another threa. but Muse always barks against sunnis so i posted it here

 

[muse]

We've talked about this before too and I have to concur with @muse- without defining the opposition how can one oppose it- using the proper name to denote any such movement or ideology is of paramount importance. But, even a layman like me sitting here in India knows who underwrites the Wahabi operations (and you know it better than me). The amount of funding is mind boggling- and the underwriter has a big stick- pull the plug on them and the backlash is severe. Any strategy to counter such poisonous ideologies will have to be nuanced, SA may be cooperating under the new King to stop Wahabi funded activities that are against Pakistan's national interests, BUT- IF Pakistan attacks the very core of wahabi ideology then don't you think SA and the Gulf states will take umbrage to that one way or the other?

These Wahabi are too big for their own boots - to themselves they are ten feet tall, in reality they serve a master who is not interested in being served defeat - this is why most Pakistanis do not understand the importance of sustain Syria, it's not that Mr.Assad is a great guy, but rather that should the Wahabi terrorists succeed there, the next victim of the Wahabi may well be Pakistan . Develepero's point of nuance is certainly one we should be cognizant of - but in Pakistan, we still can and ought, to ensure that even if Syria ends up a success for the Wahabai terrorists, Pakistan may not be.