ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

[Brainsucker]

As you please but that doesn't mean I won't reiterate the same point of view if asked just maybe not with you

You can disagree about music with me? Your taste must be the far opposite to me then. Ok, I like jazz! Then show me Pakistani Jazz!!!

 

[Dubious]

You can disagree about music with me? Your taste must be the far opposite to me then.

I meant abt the topic...I don't know your taste in music so I can't comment on it yet

Please take this to another thread of your choice otherwise thread will derail from its title @Brainsucker

 

[Rasengan]

How is it an illusion when you have 2 Chinese members from China, who have admitted it and yet you are still in some form of denial? Just coz they havent called it a crime doesnt mean a crime wasnt committed!

You can repeat an accusation a 100 times but it still doesn't make it true if the ground reality is different. There is no religious oppression, its a figment of your imagination as a result of reading a few news articles. But if you want to believe such stories then go ahead. Like I said before, they can't admit to a mistake based upon religious oppression if it doesn't exist. Since you like mentioning Chinese members, why don't we ask @beijingwalker? Does the Chinese Govt oppress Muslim's?

I am not advocating that but the topic at hand was the Muslim issue coz unlike any other religion on the planet it is the Muslims who pray 5x a day! Now you being a Muslim (I had assumed) would have known that!

What does that have to do with the sentence you have highlighted. You don't read things in context. I was explaining how those who join the Communists party can't have any religious affiliation, and that shouldn't be rocket science to understand because the ideology itself is at odds with religion. Thus, people are given a choice, no one is forced to join the party, but if for some reason they wish to join then there is a code of conduct. I don't agree with this policy, it needs to change, however, that depends on China and not the opinion of a foreign Govt.

As for praying 5x a day, I have explained to you but you have chosen to ignore it. People can pray during the day on their two-hour break, and if their workload is too much then they can read Qaza. The same thing happens in the UK. You won't find a prayer room, in most corporate companies, the only way is to leave the office and find the nearest Mosque, and you can't do that if you have a deadline. You are bringing the conditions of a Muslim state into a non-Muslim state.

How is that a choice? To be a member you have to have no religious affiliation is a command/ order not a choice!

I have already answered this question above. Nobody is forcing you to become a member. If you go to a gentleman's club in the UK, they have a dress code for entry. You are expected to wear a tailored jacket and formal trousers together with a collared shirt and tie. Whoever wears jeans and tracksuit bottoms won't be permitted entry. Therefore, people have a choice, if you wish to join the club then follow the code of conduct.

Your colleagues were not bound to an institution known as concentration camp...And prayed in a Mosque not in the concentration camp where they are FORCED to live and lose their 5x daily prayers! How is that any different than the Jews who were sent to concentration camp and asked not to do anything that the Nazi didnt want?

This is your opinion. I don't accept such a scenario exists. The best way, I could find out the truth is by visiting China and the region itself. The Jews were sent to their deaths in concentration camps or were used as forced labour. Such widespread oppression led to many different uprising against the Nazi's of which the most famous one was the Warsaw Ghetto. Where has there been an uprising in Xinjiang? Even Gaza which is oppressed by the Israeli's saw the intifada.

Why would I debate on issues that are not problematic to a people?! And why would I would I claim Chinese are accountable for these which are not an issue? - Your command of the English language is equal to that of a Chinese...

Obviously people only debate/ highlight/ object to "problems" not everything ...how come you arent reading in context and trying to wiggle to other topics?


Who are her people? the >90% Han?

I don't give a damn what you believe my command of the English language is If that makes you feel happy at night then be my guess. I don't put great emphasis on the English culture or its language, this explains why most Pakistani's even in the current era have a slave mentality. Furthermore, it's your assumption of me trying to wiggle out of a topic. I have answered every question imposed in my own way, whether you like the answer or not is of no interests to me.

I didnt talk about these issues so clearly you are either avoiding or putting words in my texts just like beijingwalker!

Again you don't read things into context and you were bold enough to claim my command of the English language was poor Did I refer to you in that paragraph? I was referring to the newspapers who have made some of these accusations. Did the world learn about these problems from @Dubious or western newspapers? It's your figment of imagination that I'm avoiding a topic or putting words in your text.

 

[Itachi]

Thank you for defending me bro. But you don't have to go too far. What I want is only to building bridge between Pakistani and Chinese people in general. But I have to admit too that PRC Citizens are quite an alien to international political correctness. That's why they're rude, and racist. They exercise more freedom of speech than we are in this regard. Because their talk is not limited by political correctness that embrace by international people.

@beijingwalker, I think we have to admit it, that many of your comrades are rude and racists. You're not one of them of course. But their action make you looks bad too. I hope Chinese Posters can improve their English, and understand more about international political correctness, or else, your mission to make China looks good will backfire to you. Because, like it or not; you have to respect others before others can respect you. Well, @beijingwalker, you're in tough situation here

Thanks, I like your upfront statement. I, by no means, insult others and if I have done it to you, I apologize.

We might disagree on the issue here about Uyghurs but there is something we both agree about that you wrote here.

Your first sentence doesn't make sense. Why would I like an 11-year-old? What are you smoking Admit the truth, you have an issue with Han Chinese people? No one mentions ancient history unless they have a certain grudge against a community. So you are a racists

I'm unable to edit the text now but it's supposed to be "You sound like a 11 year old" obviously it's really easy to put that single word in if you reread the whole sentence. Either way, you would also like a 11 year old cuz he/she will talk right back in your tone.

I didn't mean anything perverted if that's what you're going at.

As for "racism" there is no such thing as that which I wrote. Han Chinese are not a "race", Chinese is a race. And what is defined as "Chinese"...well that's up for debate too.

So there you go, I am not a racist if I see faults in everyone, including myself and even Pakistanis.

Correct me if I am wrong @Brainsucker that you are a Chinese Non-Muslim person living in Indonesia, so he is being loyal to his people and country @Itachi

Anyway guys, let’s get back to the thread topic and stop personally insulting each other.

Well, if he is then one of his flags are wrong...

His country & location flag are both Indonesia...country means where his origins are from.

Wow,My.. I first thought you hate current communist government but it turns out you hate everything about China, even her whole history, culture and civilizaition..many often perished building pyrimads of Egypt, Persians, Romans , Alexandra the Great and Genghis Khan killed more people than past Chinese kings and emperors.

China has one fifth of the world humanity and our culture runs for thousands of years, so bad you can't wipe out our people and the culture you hate so much, there's nothing you can do about it, you must be a very unhppy person unable to do anything for the people and culture you hate so much. I pity you, live your whole life in hate.

@Rasengan I would like to clarify a thing here......I don't hate anyone.....not the Chinese, not the Martians, not the Jews or whatever....all I dislike are "policies & way of doing things" of the past & the present governments and people.

I just gave an example of Chinese brutality of disregarding the individual and thinking of the state. Millions of Chinese have died for it and you can't falsify it.

I was giving out examples to expand and justify my points. You guys are painting me for a racist and a hate monger....which I am not.

And we have a winner!!

I call it progress after 14 pages of this thread.

The liberty is reaching their minds!

Itachi has an American view...

Not even that, I see everything from both sides of the coin.....one side hides the fact that the other side has a ugly past by showing how it has reached economic prosperity in such a short time.

I'm very much a Pakistani but I am also a American citizen too. It doesn't make me a "American" but a Pakistani-American .

BTW, @Rasengan why are you masking your IP? Defence.pk is neither blocked in UK nor in Pakistan....

Something is not right in the cooker if he's hiding his IP. I'm sure he's using a VPN like NordVPN but still....

I mean, I don't hide my IP....you can clearly tell I'm from Alpha Centauri.

1) I never said they are evil - oppressive to a certain group - yes!

oh boy...not even a "certain" group...they don't even leave their "own" people alone lol...as you have seen in my previous posts...

to sum it up:

1) Civil wars for the past 3000 years

2) Taiwan and Tiananmen square (Taiwan because of the C. Wars)

3) CCP/CPC's policies over the past decades under Mao and others have killed an estimated 20-40 Million more than Hitler, almost the same as Stalin

4) Stuff under the carpet & closet which I have still to find or/& can't find and is classified/buried too deep I can't find it

As for "all weather friend" - these are politics...Everyone knows that even China knows it! We are its doorway to the West! So it is a 2 way benefits very little to do with accessing any humanity left in either!

Correct, we're the "doorway". But to talk about CPEC, I don't think we're getting paid enough lol.....look at Saudi Arabia and the US....they had a 400B (might be a 100B more/less) deal.....whereas CPEC is less than 100B lol.....will discuss another time

You should be asking "where are the videos made by our fellow Muslim countries...whether they show good or bad...where are they...why am I watching a BBC video instead of 50 videos made by our media...why are they so silent if nothing is amiss.."

Right, we both know the answer sadly.

I haven't bothered to change it. I have said it many times on this forum that I am currently living in the UK. I like the Pakistani flag.

You should change one of your flags then...

Plus, hiding your IP does ring some alarm bells.

@Dubious pinging you just in case you didn't forget about this.

 

[Goku]

@Pakhtoon yum @Itachi @Dubious
@damm1t @Nein
This is secret filming in Xinjiang by Vice and its shit scary

 

[vi-va]

There has never been a communists state in this world because it's a utopia system which all socialists state endeavour to achieve. Its why people like Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and Mao used the words "We must continue the revolution."

China under no circumstances can be defined as a pure socialists state because capitalism exists. Capitalism in some shape or form will always be at odds with workers right. The Chinese were themselves confused hence why they came up with a new name "Socialism with Chinese characteristics."

They burned all books from religion to Chinese ancient philosophy. One of the things I find fascinating, Chairman Mao didn't stop the cultural revolution but he had an extensive collection of books. Chinese people won't admit this openly, but they regard these events as shameful. But today, in most Chinese formal settings, at least in SOEs, the number one topic is Confucianism even though it's not practised in Govt. Ancient Chinese traditions are emerging across China. Falong Gong was prosecuted because the founder was running a scheme. Naturally, people complained and the Govt had to take action. We don't have to believe the Chinese system and vice versa. We have a common goal, which stems into economics, geo-strategic interests and exchange of ideas. Pakistan will be China's gateway to the Muslim world, just like how Hong Kong is the gateway for western business into mainland China.

Once again I found you have deep insight on China topic. Confucianism is emerging, true. Kissinger predicted that many many years ago. Kissinger maybe the man who knew China more than any westerners.

Btw, we don't have any problem with any religions. But Chinese have different view on the relationship between religions and state. It's nothing new. In China, state first for thousands year, and we are proud of it. If you compare China history with South Asia, Middle East and West, China is unique on this perspective.

In my opinion, communism is a religion as well, so is liberalism or any other ideologies.

Now the west call us State Capitalism and I think the west has a point. Hilarious.

 

[Rasengan]

Once again I found you have deep insight on China topic. Confucianism is emerging, true. Kissinger predicted that many many years ago. Kissinger maybe the man who knew China more than any westerners.

Btw, we don't have any problem with any religions. But Chinese have different view on the relationship between religions and state. It's nothing new. In China, state first for thousands year, and we are proud of it. If you compare China history with South Asia, Middle East and West, China is unique on this perspective.

In my opinion, communism is a religion as well, so is liberalism or any other ideologies.

Now the west call us State Capitalism and I think the west has a point. Hilarious.

Kissinger is a crafty old bugger but the man knew how geopolitics runs from the back of his hand. I agree no one knew the significant potential of China more than Kissinger, he wanted them to go mainstream and be included in the global community. We have to remember China in some shape of form has controlled more than 60% of the world's GDP from an historical standpoint. I think the only time this was different was during the Mughal era where India was more wealthy.

I agree the Chinese view on religion and state is quite unique and its been ongoing for more than 3000 years. I believe it started from Emperor Qin Shi Huang but I can be wrong. I guess you can call all political ideologies as a different form of religion. America is a prime example, you have people supporting a party for decades without even reading the party policy. I think State Capitalism is the correct word, and personally it works beautiful if you have the right people involved and political framework. If someone with a character like Heshen from the Qing dynasty was involved then you will have a problem.

I'm unable to edit the text now but it's supposed to be "You sound like a 11 year old" obviously it's really easy to put that single word in if you reread the whole sentence. Either way, you would also like a 11 year old cuz he/she will talk right back in your tone.

You should control your emotions You might be a fortune teller, but don't presume other people can read your message if you don't write your sentence correctly How can you tell which tone I am speaking? Have you listened to my voice? Of course, I am fond of 11 year olds they are children who bring joy into this bleak world. I guess you don't like 11 years olds...bad history?

As for "racism" there is no such thing as that which I wrote. Han Chinese are not a "race", Chinese is a race. And what is defined as "Chinese"...well that's up for debate too.

So there you go, I am not a racist if I see faults in everyone, including myself and even Pakistanis.

You can still be racists towards an ethnic group. There are 56 ethnic groups in China of which 10 are Muslim and the Han being the majority. If you studied Chinese history, then you will know the Han people were not always in power and the decision makers came from different ethnic groups. Liao dynasty, Jin dynasty, Yuan dynasty and Qing dynasty were not Han. I don't mind if people find faults in everyone, but when you bring up ancient history to attack a certain ethnic group then you are a bigot.

Something is not right in the cooker if he's hiding his IP. I'm sure he's using a VPN like NordVPN but still....

I mean, I don't hide my IP....you can clearly tell I'm from Alpha Centauri.

I thought you were a great fortune teller? I guess it was a myth. I'm not hiding my IP address or using any software. I have more important things to do. Like I explained to @Dubious I prefer both my flags to be Pakistani because I love Pakistan, but his the moderator so he can do whatever floats his boat.

 

[vi-va]

Kissinger is a crafty old bugger but the man knew how geopolitics runs from the back of his hand. I agree no one knew the significant potential of China more than Kissinger, he wanted them to go mainstream and be included in the global community. We have to remember China in some shape of form has controlled more than 60% of the world's GDP from an historical standpoint. I think the only time this was different was during the Mughal era where India was more wealthy.

I agree the Chinese view on religion and state is quite unique and its been ongoing for more than 3000 years. I believe it started from Emperor Qin Shi Huang but I can be wrong. I guess you can call all political ideologies as a different form of religion. American is a prime example, you have people supporting a party for decades without even reading the party policy. I think State Capitalism is the correct word, and personally it works beautiful if you have the right people involved and political framework. If someone with a character like Heshen from the Qing dynasty was involved then you will have a problem.



You should control your emotions You might be a fortune teller, but don't presume other people can read your message if you don't write your sentence correctly How can you tell which tone I am speaking? Have you listened to my voice? Of course, I am fond of 11 year olds they are children who bring joy into this bleak world. I guess you don't like 11 years olds...bad history?

The fundamental philosophy of communism is A Critique of Political Economy published in 1885 and 1894, respectively. The capitalism in early stage (18th -19th century) is extremely brutal. The Great Bengal famine of 1770 shows how brutal British East India Company could be, much worse than fascists.

Communism definitely has a very good will, a utopia to create a better world, no exploitation, equal human rights, gender equality, pacifism, racial discrimination and so on. Many Socialists such as August Bebel were pioneers on progressive movement.

Demonizing China and communism is the core of Cold War strategy. Just like Islamophobia, demonizing Islam nowadays serves some political agendas and countries.

My Pakistan friends, mutual understanding benefits both sides since we are all victims of Demonization.

China's political and economical approaches were inspired by Singapore to a certain extent. My views can be found here:

Pakistan industrialization, foreign policy and political system
China foreign policy
Stable gov and huge saving are the key for rapid economy growth

 

[beijingwalker]

@Pakhtoon yum @Itachi @Dubious
@damm1t @Nein
This is secret filming in Xinjiang by Vice and its shit scary

Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?

By the way, what language is the title?

 

[Rasengan]

Vanishing? So if I go to Xinjiang or Ningxia now I will see no Muslims? How come recently foreign Vlogs show there are so many of them?

By the way, what language is the title?

Wonderful response Oh, my, days, the men are wearing caps, the woman are wearing scarves and the city is full of Muslim's.

 

[Brainsucker]

By the way, what language is the title?

The title means "Uyghur live in Kasghar City, Xinjiang 2019." It's Indonesian. But well, his / her Indonesian is rather rigid. More like an Indonesian that come from English Translation. Well, there are people in Indonesia who write like that. Like me, for example. As I read more of English writings than Indonesian one.

The more flexible write is : Kehidupan suku Uyghur di kota Kashgar, Xinjiang 2019.

 

[Dubious]

You can repeat an accusation a 100 times but it still doesn't make it true if the ground reality is different. There is no religious oppression, its a figment of your imagination as a result of reading a few news articles.

What you have mentioned about you not agreeing with China's laws...is oppression in other countries! You denying it wont make it a myth!

2 Chinese members here have agreed China does EXACTLY what deems as oppression, so who are you to deny it?

 

[Dubious]

I haven't bothered to change it. I have said it many times on this forum that I am currently living in the UK. I like the Pakistani flag.

Defence.pk is not banned in the UK nor do any members from UK hide their IP!

I thought you were a great fortune teller? I guess it was a myth. I'm not hiding my IP address or using any software. I have more important things to do. Like I explained to @Dubious I prefer both my flags to be Pakistani because I love Pakistan, but his the moderator so he can do whatever floats his boat.

As you wish! We are ok with whatever the member is ok with...However I am not talking about your flags but even your IP has been masked!

 

[beijingwalker]

What you have mentioned about you not agreeing with China's laws...is oppression in other countries! You denying it wont make it a myth!

2 Chinese members here have agreed China does EXACTLY what deems as oppression, so who are you to deny it?

Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.

 

[Dubious]

As for praying 5x a day, I have explained to you but you have chosen to ignore it. People can pray during the day on their two-hour break, and if their workload is too much then they can read Qaza. The same thing happens in the UK. You won't find a prayer room, in most corporate companies, the only way is to leave the office and find the nearest Mosque, and you can't do that if you have a deadline. You are bringing the conditions of a Muslim state into a non-Muslim state.

Again repeating things not in context isnt getting you any brownie points!

My point is about the concentration camp:

Now in view of the Chinese law where religious practice is not allowed in public buildings and concentration camp is a public building! And people are forced to LIVE in it...meaning they have to stay 24 hrs x whatever number of days, weeks, mths ....and THIS means no prayers for the whole period! They are not working there that they get 2 hr breaks...Their break from "learning skills" is still retiring in the building...where they live! It is not going back home to pray and then come back...So, their break time is spent in the building! Just listen to any of the videos, it will tell you exactly the same! What it doesnt tell you is that Muslims pray 5x a day! So if they are living in the building, their break is spent in the building, they are not allowed to pray nor read Quran while there! That could be weeks to months to years!

Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.

You are 1 of them who agreed that prayers (or any religious related thing) is not allowed in public building..You also agreed concentration camp is a public building. You also agreed these people live there!

So add that up = these "prisoners" are not allowed to pray for the number of weeks/ months/ years they are to be "trained" in these camps!

The same goes for the forced boarding schools which are again public buildings..

You see we Muslims pray 5x in ONE DAY (it is the base of our religion) and you not allowing them to do so coz of the rule of no prayers in public buildings...is equal to religious oppression ..in this regard of Islam!

Learn the basics before accusing another!

Learn to read in context! Context is
XINJIANG
UYGHUR people
ISLAM
CONCENTRATION CAMPS!

I am not talking about whole of China. I am not talking about other cases..I am also not talking about other people who can walk/ go home or to a mosque to pray! But these specific people who CAN NOT!

You claimed you have lived in a Muslim community with Muslims and have Muslim friends...How did you manage to ignore their practices? 5x daily prayers is a must for a Muslim...stopping this is oppression to practice religion (Islam in this terms)

Which two? you twisted their words or they did say China oppress minorities? can you call them out to verify your claim? not by what you say about what they say, let them say the word "oppression" for themselves.

First learn the meaning of "oppression" then learn how a person can be oppressed and what can be termed oppression! I have explained if you still dont understand ask dont accuse!