All Parties Conference

[Jango]

If you are militarily and politically comparable to the US, then yes, you could do that justifiably.

But if not, you need to look at why the US is bombing and realign your policies to avoid it.



The APC end result was bound to be only sound and fury, signifying nothing, and very predictably so. Why be disappointed by reality?

One is disappointed only if he has expectations.

I didn't, neither should you people.

 

[Leader]

I feel disappointed, what did the PTI resolution say before the amendments?

PTI stance as presented by Dr Shereen Mazari:


1. The government must completely reassess its US policy and prevailing cooperation and evolve a comprehensive nationalist policy towards the US which allows it to extricate itself from the clutches of the US war and instead formulate its own national strategy to combat militancy and extremism. All cooperation with the US should henceforth be in written institutionalized agreements, including military and intelligence cooperation and that should be made public.


2. An end to all military operations so that peace can be given a real chance. Pakistan should help the US politically by using any influence it may have with the Haqqani network to bring them to the negotiating table for a peace settlement. If the US wants to talk to the Taliban including the Haqqani network, then why should Pakistan continue to be pushed into going for military action against this network? Instead Pakistan should assist the US towards a meaningful political solution.



3. An end to all US aid. Aid is a curse for Pakistan and prevents internal reform. The US aid, what has actually flowed to Pakistan, has come at a heavy cost to the nation and only served to bolster corruption and vested interests.



4. The government must come clean on its complicity or otherwise on the drone attacks. The government must explain the extent to which permission to operate in Pakistan has been given to US military, intelligence, private security contractors and other non-specific non-diplomats. Also, it must inform as to who has authorized this permission and under what agreements and/or understandings.



5. Finally, to ensure that all decisions taken at the APC are enforced, a committee must be formed to oversee the same.

link http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/120958-pti-imran-khans-political-desk-16.html
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All the PTI points have been accepted, however, its drafting is very careful, anyway in the end it is all down to political will to take actions according to the APC resolution...which we highly doubt.

 

[Jango]

PTI stance as presented by Dr Shereen Mazari:


1. The government must completely reassess its US policy and prevailing cooperation and evolve a comprehensive nationalist policy towards the US which allows it to extricate itself from the clutches of the US war and instead formulate its own national strategy to combat militancy and extremism. All cooperation with the US should henceforth be in written institutionalized agreements, including military and intelligence cooperation and that should be made public.


2. An end to all military operations so that peace can be given a real chance. Pakistan should help the US politically by using any influence it may have with the Haqqani network to bring them to the negotiating table for a peace settlement. If the US wants to talk to the Taliban including the Haqqani network, then why should Pakistan continue to be pushed into going for military action against this network? Instead Pakistan should assist the US towards a meaningful political solution.



3. An end to all US aid. Aid is a curse for Pakistan and prevents internal reform. The US aid, what has actually flowed to Pakistan, has come at a heavy cost to the nation and only served to bolster corruption and vested interests.



4. The government must come clean on its complicity or otherwise on the drone attacks. The government must explain the extent to which permission to operate in Pakistan has been given to US military, intelligence, private security contractors and other non-specific non-diplomats. Also, it must inform as to who has authorized this permission and under what agreements and/or understandings.



5. Finally, to ensure that all decisions taken at the APC are enforced, a committee must be formed to oversee the same.

link http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/120958-pti-imran-khans-political-desk-16.html
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the PTI points have been accepted, however, its drafting is very careful, anyway in the end it is all down to political will to take actions according to the APC resolution...which we highly doubt.

Nawaz Sharif also saod no to aid, all kind of aid and loans, but somebody from the Govt said that only US aid should be stopped, not from other sources.

 

[muse]

Asif, Leader, Nukilr, VC, have you actually read the resolution ? See post # 41


The resolution is supposed to encapsulate ideas, it is not supposed to be a declaration of war - please note items 3 to 8 and 11 to 13.

 

[Jango]

Asif, Leader, Nukilr, VC, have you actually read the resolution ? See post # 41


The resolution is supposed to encapsulate ideas, it is not supposed to be a declaration of war - please note items 3 to 8 and 11 to 13.

Point number 7 and 8, are they being followed? Just heard of a drone strike today.

The government should come clean that are they doing this or not.

 

[muse]

Point number 7 and 8, are they being followed? Just heard of a drone strike today.

The government should come clean that are they doing this or not.

Come clean with yourselves --- The Pakistan government and army do not have a problem with drones, in fact they support them, what they do have a problem with is the political fallout --

See, Nukilr, if the Pakistan state and army were not apologetic about using all means to confront and defeat extremists and their enablers, they would not find themselves in the unfortunate position of fighting extremism but being unable to take credit for it.

 

[VCheng]

Asif, Leader, Nukilr, VC, have you actually read the resolution ? See post # 41


The resolution is supposed to encapsulate ideas, it is not supposed to be a declaration of war - please note items 3 to 8 and 11 to 13.

Yes Sir, I read it, word by word. It did not have enough credibility for me to comment upon it, not being worth the paper it was printed on.

 

[Awesome]

The failure of this weak instrument is evident that they carried out a drone attack during the APC.

I hope the Biryani PM sahab served was worth it.

 

[muse]

The failure of this weak instrument is evident that they carried out a drone attack during the APC.

I hope the Biryani PM sahab served was worth it.

This response illustrates that many in Pakistan do not know WHY extremism has to be countered and instead prefer political posturing of pretenders such Imran khan.

Drones are a POLITICAL problem, one would have thought that the objection to drones was based on the lack of agreement with thePpakistan and US governments over their use - whereas the government and the army know that drones target terrorists, could the drones do a better job, sure -

 

[GOD OF WAR]

This response illustrates that many in Pakistan do not know WHY extremism has to be countered and instead prefer political posturing of pretenders such Imran khan.

Drones are a POLITICAL problem, one would have thought that the objection to drones was based on the lack of agreement with thePpakistan and US governments over their use - whereas the government and the army know that drones target terrorists, could the drones do a better job, sure -

So what are you saying muse, that drones should keeping bombing Pakistani soil (with or without the consent of the govt.)? Point is we all know that this govt is a puppet regime. And puppets don't have a spine to take individual decisions.

What do you suggest can be done? should we keep quite and let the US bomb Quetta and then Karachi as well? The aim of perpetual clamor by Imran Khan, Shirin Mazari, Zaid Hamid and others is to ultimately create enough awareness that these goons are unmasked. This is by no means the only thing that can be done to stop the drones but it certainly holds a good chance of something cataclysmic coming out of it when a good strong opportunity arrives. Other than that, nothing short of a bloody revolution can put an end to the corruption prevailing in the upper echelon of this countries ruling elite.

We must support a good thing, even if it is weak. Also could you please accentuate your statement that I have underlined? because frankly speaking if someone comes to have a word with me, then I can have a word with him, but if the same pulls out a canon, blasts my gate down and kills my brother in the process, talks are over, and there's unfinished business.

 

[Awesome]

This response illustrates that many in Pakistan do not know WHY extremism has to be countered and instead prefer political posturing of pretenders such Imran khan.

Drones are a POLITICAL problem, one would have thought that the objection to drones was based on the lack of agreement with thePpakistan and US governments over their use - whereas the government and the army know that drones target terrorists, could the drones do a better job, sure -

The fact that they had to edit the wording on the drones - drones were not even mentioned!

 

[muse]

The fact that they had to edit the wording on the drones - drones were not even mentioned!

As it should have been edited, this was not the PTI Imran khan hour - Drones are a political problem in pakistan because the Pakistani establishment is apologetic about killing islamist terrorists -- That's why we say that some do not understand "WHY" islamist terror must be confronted and defeated by all means necessary - the Pakistan army and the state agree with the use of drones, in fact they want to be able to control it's use, they want drones for themselves.

 

[Jango]

Come clean with yourselves --- The Pakistan government and army do not have a problem with drones, in fact they support them, what they do have a problem with is the political fallout --

See, Nukilr, if the Pakistan state and army were not apologetic about using all means to confront and defeat extremists and their enablers, they would not find themselves in the unfortunate position of fighting extremism but being unable to take credit for it.

Well, if we all know that these are being conducted in accordance with PA, then why not come out with it.

Just say, ok, lets make it clear, we do not have drone technology so we give coordinates to US and they do the firing. Or will the fallout be too great?

Atleast we need to comply with these resolutions. Make it clear to the nation that they are not being mastered in every field by US.

Nawaz Sharif said at the APC, ' hum ab sirf ghulam hi nhn, balkay mulzim aur mujrim bhi kehlaye ja rahay hain'.

 

[Meengla]

As it should have been edited, this was not the PTI Imran khan hour - Drones are a political problem in pakistan because the Pakistani establishment is apologetic about killing islamist terrorists -- That's why we say that some do not understand "WHY" islamist terror must be confronted and defeated by all means necessary - the Pakistan army and the state agree with the use of drones, in fact they want to be able to control it's use, they want drones for themselves.

I wouldn't say the govt. is 'apologetic' about confronting the religious fanatics. More likely there are too many fires raging and 'owning' the drones would contribute to those even more. Let the Americans target the fanatics...

 

[muse]

Nawaz Sharif said at the APC, ' hum ab sirf ghulam hi nhn, balkay mulzim aur mujrim bhi kehlaye ja rahay hain'

Boo ho - He could not resist that dig.

Yes, come clean, why be apologetic about killing Islamist enemies? Come clean, explain to people why these people are enemies, explain that anyone taking arms against the state, regardless of how they justify it, are putting their lives at risk - Explain that the use of religion to justify insurrection, terrorism will lead to the destruction of the state and society and the state will not only not allow it but will destroy those who seek such an objective