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Fieldmarshal Taimi Khan while i was away just to make sure (as it u who is disagreeing with me) i called up some one in the armoured corps and had all the things that we are discussing double checked. and this is what i found out:
- all battalions in PA (except armoured Corps. battalions) are rotated/transferred from a formation after a period of 10-12 years. without any exception.
Infantry & some artillery/engineers/armor battalions get posted after every three years, in operational areas like KPK/FATA after 2 years, siachen 1 or 1 1/2 years, while the specialized battalions either stay for a very long time or hardly move. This is what i said and your post kind of says that too.
- all armoured Corps battalions are rotated/transferred from a formation after 7-9 years of time. without exception.
Don't think the 7-9 year policy holds true in every case, as said i am seeing same armor unit guys since 2001 in Peshawar and its 2013 now, similarly the example of my cousin i quoted, his unit is at Multan since the day they got T-80UDs and today is 2013. I believe his was the first unit or 2nd one which got the T-80UDs.
-when a unit across PA is rotated out of a formation. it does not take the equipment/armament with it. the equipment stays at its place and would be taken over by the battalion replacing it. similarly the unit rotated out will take charge of the equipment/armaments of the unit its replacing.
It holds true all around the world, equipment remains there, i never contested that. Only in exceptional cases equipment moves with the formation.
-the armament/equipment belongs to the formation and will stay at its place for the duration of the life of the equipment/armament.
True, provided the doctrine doesn't changes.
-formations never leave their area of responsibility in peace time but only for exercises some times ( as most exercises are carried out in their area of operation).
By formations if you mean Divisions / Brigades / Corps, that is true, in exceptional cases formations move, like whole division / Brigade moving into tribal areas for operations & in case of war.
-battalions might be operating Al-khalid in one formation and al zarrar in the other or vise versa. (like i had said in my earlier post). their are no elite units but only crack/spearhead Corps. /Div./Brigades. All battalions in PA are equal and to keep this equality this rotation policy is followed.
I think, in our discussion, crack/spearhead formation be it a unit / brigade / division does means elite, since they have the best equipment available for the special task they are made for. Elite in our discussion doesn’t means they are given better food or better residential facilities, rather elite in our case means a unit which is holding better equipment for specific role. All battalions in PA are not equal, many battalions are equal as their role is same, some battalions are different due to the equipment they use for the specific role they are assigned in the warfare doctrine. Is a normal infantry unit & MIB unit same, don’t think so. Is a LAT & HAT battalion equal, don’t think so. Is an armor unit using Type-55s / Type-85s & the ones using AK / T-80UDs same, don’t think so. Rotation policy is not equal, its equal for some and for some due to the specific reasons of warfare its not.
-armour battalions that that are operating eg al khalid will have no problem if rotated to a formation lets say operating t-80 or al zarrar, as they had operated them earlier.
I don’t see why you are making it so easy, since all are different machines; engines may be similar or from same origin, but still other equipment and a tank’s performance to each other is different. It’s not that easy to keep changing tanks between units after such a short time period, especially since we don’t train our tank formations that much due to some factors. And we are using other origin tanks also, my cousins unit used to operate Chinese tanks and then shifted to T-80UDs, which was a major change.
- but if a battalion which eg was on al zarrar and has been transferred to a formation where it is required to operate t-80ud. will be trained for the purpose and the procedure for this is that the OC will right to GHQ with request for the provision of the requisite training. This training will initially be provided at the armour school (around 4 months) and later at the battalion, after the crews have basic-intermidate level skills/knowledge.
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this is the same across PA without any exception.
Definitely training has to happen. No question about it. When the AMR rifles were introduced, even for that training had to be imparted to the troops, here we are talking about big tanks.
- My father is from the Corps of Eng. his unit is 2 Engineer Battalion. he did several stints in it.in the 65 when he was a LT/a very young Capt. it served in the role of Combat Eng. in chumb. in the 70s when he was a Maj. in 2EB he was building the KKH. later on in the 80s when he was promoted to a LT.Col. he took command of 2EB in ormara where they were building a jetty for the navy. after that was finished he under his command moved the unit to kharia in 6 armour div. where again it would be playing the role of combat engineers in a armoured brigade and for the first time had bridges mounted on the chassis of tanks.
the point of all of the above is to explain that their is no constant in the army and all equipment is assigned according to ur deployment.
Agreed, engineering units move, but assault engineering battalions stay mostly for a longer period of time as their role is specific to stay with armored formations.
- to explain it further 1 armour Div. is considered to the spear head of PA and is suppose to play a major role in any conflict, so naturally it would get the best equipment. no just the armour battalion but all battalions in the Div. only consider a battalion that is in the formation that is part of PA armour reserve. it will not get the best equipment available (as that is not enough to go around).
I said the same thing, we have some special / elite / crack / spearhead formations which are better equipped for specific role. Of the 9 Corps, two are elite / crack / special Corps which have been better equipped for offensive role.
i hope thats makes it very clear (if u read it with a clear objective mind : ) ), clear as day light.
I am already clear in my mind as I said the same thing which you have mentioned, there is some hard and fast rule for normal infantry units, some artillery units and for some armor formations which use the same equipment, but then there are special rules for the HAT, MIB & armor formations which are raised for some specific role and that their transferring is not done after just 3 years.
ps ; sorry for any mistakes as i am too tired to edit it as its very late at night.
happy reading
Thanks for the read, much obliged.
