Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

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Is Akinci or Aksungur capable of firing WVR or BVR missiles???

Akinci. It will be equipped with a mechanical (later AESA) radar that is capable of allowing midcourse guidance to A2A missiles.

 

[Ababeel]

Akinci. It will be equipped with a mechanical (later AESA) radar that is capable of allowing midcourse guidance to A2A missiles.
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Are other UCAV like those of US, Israel or China etc. A2A capable?

 

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Are other UCAV like those of US, Israel or China etc. A2A capable?

They are capable of developing such a UAV, but I have not read of any being developed to the same extent as Akinci.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Are other UCAV like those of US, Israel or China etc. A2A capable?

Usa uavs generally use a stinger aa version atas with eo flir. Sidewinder type missiles not logical for uavs also you need a strong radar for bvr aa missiles.

Reaper and predator only have sar based radars, same for gray eagle. But General Atomics Avenger will use Aesa radar. I'm waiting to see on him a aa bvr capability.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Are other UCAV like those of US, Israel or China etc. A2A capable?

Turkey is first but just last year USA made a test too

 

[Ababeel]

With A2A capability it's a marvelous achievement by Turkey. But what about the maneuverability and Speed when Akinci face a fighter jet equipped with WVR or BVR missile. Will it be capable of detecting it first? What about the RCS of Akinci? Or is this capability still under R&D and its initial stage and not yet practically tested anywhere in the world as no country other than Turkey really possess it.

 

[AerospaceTech]

With A2A capability it's a marvelous achievement by Turkey. But what about the maneuverability and Speed when Akinci face a fighter jet equipped with WVR or BVR missile. Will it be capable of detecting it first? What about the RCS of Akinci? Or is this capability still under R&D and its initial stage and not yet practically tested anywhere in the world as no country other than Turkey really possess it.

There is no chance to beat a jet engine fighter with turboprop UAV due to the manoeuvrability. A2A missiles will give a strong point against the other UAVs and helicopters.

 

[azyr]

There is no chance to beat a jet engine fighter with turboprop UAV due to the manoeuvrability. A2A missiles will give a strong point against the other UAVs and helicopters.

While it would be near impossible for a face-off - it's not completely unbelievable either. The jet can be shot down by the missile fired by the drone and guided further along with the help of another plane in the area, maybe an AWACS etc.
You would essentially be arming AWACS with infinite missiles this way by giving them command of multiple cheap drones with A2A missiles.

 

[mustafa erkan]

There is no chance to beat a jet engine fighter with turboprop UAV due to the manoeuvrability. A2A missiles will give a strong point against the other UAVs and helicopters.

Monoeuvrability is ok but if flying altitude of uav with bvr missile is higher than a jet engine fighter,isnt it easy to engage with bvr missile?

 

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With A2A capability it's a marvelous achievement by Turkey. But what about the maneuverability and Speed when Akinci face a fighter jet equipped with WVR or BVR missile. Will it be capable of detecting it first? What about the RCS of Akinci? Or is this capability still under R&D and its initial stage and not yet practically tested anywhere in the world as no country other than Turkey really possess it.

We don't envisage Akinci to be placed in a role where it will have to dogfight.

We more see Akinci to be a force-multiplier. Where it would have taken 12 jet fighters to cover a certain sector of the sky. It could just be 4 Jet Fighters and 8 Akinci drones. Akinci being able to loiter for 24 hours, having a multi-role radar and WVR/BVR missiles, gives it ability to be a light airborne early warning system with the ability to engage targets.

We'll see how doctrine evolves as these types of drones capabilities grow.

 

[SİLAHDAR]

Akıncı can engage targets with help of his radar or awacs datalink.
But with stealth ucavs a-a capability more logical. Just because stealth ucavs cant be detectable in bvr aa ranges.
We have a project on it baykar mius he can be ready in 2023.

Everybody wait a delta wing x-47b like ucav but I wait a GA Avenger Like Ucav On this project. Maybe Copy of him.

Just because two of concepts share same engine air inlets design with him and also mius engine ai-25tlt and avenger engine Pratt & Whitney Canada PW545B almost same thrust . Also two of him will have close specs. only avenger is a little bit slower and heavy due his high payload capability but in unstealth operations with beast mode mius can be same payload and speed level.

I think selçuk bayraktar can be targeted make a avenger equivelant. Engine choise is show us to this.

Actually if we make avenger like ucav it will be very great stage for us. Just because ;

1- He will have 900 km/h speed 12000+ (big probaply 15000m altitude), 1 tonnes+ weapon capacity, close to f-117 level stealth capacity, integrated eo sensor capability, integrated ew module capacity, long,short range and sead and anti ship attack capability and of course he will have bvr air to air capability.

Many Attack Scenarios of Mius and Akıncı ;

1- Air to Air ;

Two of him will carry aesa radar, sar radar and flir and maybe irst ;

Also he can be carry gökdoğan (65 or 120 km class not clear), Amraam C-7 also meteor if we buy him for mmu.

Akıncı and also mius can be engage aerial target easily with advantage of stealth in mius it would be great game changer ;

Land Attack ;

Two of the ucavs will use all of national smart ammo family.

He can be attack with som-j from 200+ km and winged guided family of diffrent weapons from 110+km and also with guided and lazer guided ammos from 30 km . Today we can only use mam's on him but in this ucavs we can be able launch 10 or 20 times more heavy warhead from longer ranges. İt would be completly game changer.

3- Naval Attack :

Akıncı and mius will have great naval attack capability. Just because they will have aesa radar and great weapons. Two of him can be carry air launched possible atmaca and som-j againts ships but thats the side they will have 2 very effective againts ships and submarines.

+ Kuzgun Multi Muntion ;

Kuzgun have a Thrusted and İns+ terminal active radar + iir guided , 60 kg warheaded and 110+ km ranged version.

That is like mini and cheap anti ship missile. He also have multi launch and swarm attack mode. So it's very open the cheap saturation strike

Also he can be carryable 4x in just one launcher like sdb's. Also Mius internal Weapon bays big probaply will carry 4 of him or 2 of him with 1 gökdoğan etc. İn stealth mod he will deadly againts ships.

+ Another deadly weapon is Wing Guided Orka-A Torpedo ;

He will be able detect ships from long range also he can grab this weapon from 100 km far to target he will flight until last 15 km and after that release to orka to sea and orko will finish his job easily without ciws threat.

Also ;

They of course will have asuw variants. they can be realese sosnobouys to waters and detect subs and finish his jobs with this torpedos. Or maybe aksungur maritime asw ucavs will help hims to detecet subs.

Extra ;

Also avengers will have carrier based version . İf we make a mius foldable winged naval version with hook uptade he will be great game changer.

We can launch hims from ships with help of ski jump and ww2 type non-nuclear mechanical catapult systems. (they will easily launch mius class tonnaged aircrafts from short runway carriers )

Also we have a cheap ship options for him ;

Tais have a runwayed lst, we can upgrade him with front skijump and ww2 type conventional catapult and second short runway for landing with 3 stage hook cable capability. Also we can use tank and marine areas of lst for ucav hangars and we can add 2 elevator to runway like in tcg anadolu.

That kind of lst cost is not more than 500-600 with this upgrades he cant be more than 1 billion and he can easily carry 25-30 ucav . with the costs of ucavs ; 15 millon per ucav (yes avenger cost is 10-15 million , baykar famous with his cheap ucavs againts his huge performance ı hope mius will not more than 20 mil euro in serial production)

30 x15 = 450 million euro with cost of ship total aroun 1.5 billion euro.

Hms queen elizabeth unit cost is 3 billion euro + he will plan 36 f-35b = 3.6 billion total =6.6 billion.

4x+ more than cost of national ucav carrier. So we can make a 4x ucav carrier total 120 mius behalf of 1x queen elizabeth kind ship and 36 f-35.

I prefer Mius. Also Lst based carrier of course will have less operational costs than nuclear carriers like charles de gaulee on french navy.

Also that kind of lst based ucav carrier with cheap mius concept prefeable for pakistan, malaysia, indonesia,brazil and arab navies who want a aircraft carrier but they cant buy due its high costs and operate requirements.

 

[mustafa erkan]

https://www.straturka.com/baykar-small-company-great-ambition-2/

 

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Canada approves sale of drone optics to Turkey despite arms embargo

Canada has decided to approve the sales of sophisticated military drone optics to Turkey, which has been under a Canadian arms embargo since October 2019 following Ankara's military incursion into Syria, Middle East Eye can reveal.

In April, Canada extended its arms sales ban to Turkey without giving any explanations, even though other allies, such as the United States, ended similar bans against Ankara months ago.

Turkey’s main drone suppliers, Baykar and TAI, use Canadian producer Wescam’s electro-optical (EO) and infrared (IR) cameras in their armed and unarmed drones.

The decision to extend the embargo has worried the Turkish officials who actively deploy these aircraft in campaigns in Syria and Libya, where Ankara is supporting the UN-recognised government in its fight against eastern-based general Khalifa Haftar.

Several reports suggested that Turkey has also suffered losses of drones in these two battlefields and their rapid replacement is essential.

Following the decision, Turkey's top officials, including President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, Defence Minister Hulusi Akar and Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu, made a flurry of phone calls to their Canadian counterparts to resolve the problem.

“Canada has decided to issue an exemption for these military level cameras after the diplomatic exchanges,” one Turkish official, speaking on condition of anonymity due to government protocol, told MEE.

The Turkish official expects that the optics shipments will be arriving this month.

Canada’s Department of Foreign Affairs said in a statement to MEE that Canada may issue export permits for military items depending on the circumstances.

“In April 2020, Canada significantly narrowed the scope of its policy regarding the export of controlled items to Turkey,” said a spokesperson for Global Affairs Canada.

“While restrictions will continue to apply to military exports to Turkey, Canada will consider on a case-by-case basis whether there are exceptional circumstances, including but not limited to Nato cooperation programs that might justify issuing an export permit for military items.”

The spokesperson said exporters who were issued permits for similar items for Turkey prior to 11 October 2010 may continue to export during their period of validity.

Third largest buyer
Turkish officials still do not know why Canada extended its ban on arms sales to Turkey in April while removing a similar ban on Saudi Arabia - which intends to sign a multibillion-dollar arms deal with Ottowa. Canadian officials declined to provide a reason to MEE.

However, officials continue to be concerned about the other Canadian military items and training needed by the Turkish military that have also been suspended.

Last year, Turkey purchased two Canadian Bombardier Global 600 type business aircraft to use as part of locally developed Remote Electronic Support/ Electronic Attack Ability in Air Platform (HAVA SOJ).

“The aircraft are in Turkey but Canadians will not provide the required training and transfer of know-how because of these bans,” said the Turkish official. “One Canadian firm has also stopped supplying a helicopter platform needed for the national warship programme MILGEM.”

According to 2018 military export data released by the Canadian government, Turkey had purchased $115m worth of Canadian military goods, making it the third-largest buyer.

Saudi Arabia takes its place at the top of the list with more than $1bn in military purchases.

 

[Timur]

Turkish officials still do not know why Canada extended its ban on arms sales to Turkey in April while removing a similar ban on Saudi Arabia

 

[Bismarck]

What about your own optics from Aselsan?