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Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

With its sea skimming capability, is SOM being sub-sonic that big a deal?
Atmaca is also subsonic , sea-skimming and certainly cheaper.And yes i doubt the effectiveness of a subsonic missiles vs modern CIWS and counter missiles(ESSM).Not the mention pretty soon laser CIWS gonna be a thing.We need accelerate supersonic anti-ship program.I believe since relationship with Russia good nowadays we need buy some Bastion missiles for both actual use and reverse engineer purposes.
 
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As far as I know only the romans have ever conquered everything around Mediterranean Sea thus they could call it “our sea”
 
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wouldnt it be a great thing to have something little bit bigger than kargu with the ability to carry 1 or two rpg rockets

I think than it would be 3 times of the size of kargu 2.. but still it could be send out from tank, Tir or any other vessel even in swarms
 
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Atmaca is also subsonic , sea-skimming and certainly cheaper.And yes i doubt the effectiveness of a subsonic missiles vs modern CIWS and counter missiles(ESSM).Not the mention pretty soon laser CIWS gonna be a thing.We need accelerate supersonic anti-ship program.I believe since relationship with Russia good nowadays we need buy some Bastion missiles for both actual use and reverse engineer purposes.
We should work with Russia for Zircon and other hypersonic cruise, anti-ship and ballistic missiles if possible both for actual use and to reverse engineer. India also has Brahmos 2 but I don't know if either country would sell them.
 
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Indonesian Male UAV consortium is lead by BPPT (Government Research Agency). After I dig a bit more it turn out that BPPT and TAI have long relationship in developing Anka UAV. It means our defense industry relationship is not started in 2015 when we made medium tank together but long before that. BPPT and LAPAN (Space Agency) so far is the most experience institution in Indonesia in developing UAV and it is why this institution is appointed to lead Indonesian MALE UAV consortium. BPPT also has experience testing PTDI aircraft development.

Google translate

TAI strengthens cooperation for UAV Testing with BPPT

The collaboration began during the development of ANKA's unmanned aircraft vehicle (UAV) in 2008
İqbal Musyaffa | 12.10.2018

Turkish aerospace company, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) paid a visit to the Technology Assessment and Application Agency (BPPT) in Serpong, South Tangerang on Thursday, to strengthen cooperation.

The visit marked the 10th year of cooperation between the companies and institutions of the two countries.

TAI Vice President Corporate Marketing and Communication Tamer Ozmen told Anadolu Agency that the cooperation between the two parties has been ongoing since 2008.

"The collaboration began when the ANKA unmanned aircraft vehicle (UAV) was developed," Tamer said.

At that time, TAI conducted a wind tunnel test for ANKA UAV at the Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel (ILST) owned by the Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aerospace, and Aerospace (BBTA3) BPPT.

ANKA is a medium altitude long endurance (MALE) unmanned aircraft (UAV) developed by TAI. The test is to obtain data on the aerodynamic characteristics of the UAV.

Then, Tamer explained the second test conducted by TAI at BBTA3 for other ANKA variants including SATCOM variants from April to May 2015.

This test is to obtain data related to the effects of deformation (deformation) of wings, SAR and SATCOM, cameras, winglets, and air inlet in ANKA aerodynamic characteristics.

Subsequently, in April and June 2015 a full scale test was carried out for the wings of the latest generation ANKA. And the fourth test was carried out in October 2017 for all the latest generation ANKA configurations.

"The four wind tunnel tests at ILST have contributed greatly to the development of the ANKA UAV system with superior flight performance and enhanced safety features," Tamer acknowledged.

Tamer asserted that the MALE-class UAV ANKA has a system of intelligence, reconnaissance, surveillance, and attacks for combat that has been tested for internal security in Turkey.

"In addition, ANKA has also been tested for surveillance operations used by various end users in Turkey," Tamer added.

Tamer also said that currently ANKA was ready to serve military missions with various payload configurations needed by the air forces of various countries.

"ANKA has had a mature experience and has flown in Turkey and other countries for anti-terrorism activities as well as land and sea surveillance," said Tamer.

Currently, TAI is also collaborating with BBTA3 for the fifth time in testing the UAV system's payload capacity in ILST to obtain aerodynamic characteristic data for the latest unmanned aircraft being developed by TAI

"We greatly appreciate BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 for the success of the development of our UAV product lineup and this is crucial to maintaining a useful collaboration for years to come," said Tamer.

https://www.aa.com.tr/id/dunia/tai-perkuat-kerja-sama-pengujian-uav-dengan-bppt/1279558
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From BPPT website (Google Translate)

2008-2018, A Decade of Cooperation between Indonesia and Turkey in Testing Wind Tunnels for the Development of Nir Awak Aircraft (UAVs, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles)

BBTA3.jpg

Turkish Aerospace Vice President for Corporate Marketing and Communication, Tamer Özmen, and Executive Vice President for Unmanned Air Systems, Omer Yildiz, along with other management teams visited the Center for Aerodynamics, Aerolastics and Aeroacustics (BBTA3) BPPT, in the Science Research Center area Knowledge and Technology (PUSPIPTEK), South Tangerang, 11 October 2018.

The collaboration between BBTA3 (Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aeroelastika and Aeroakustika) BPPT and Turkish Aerospace began in 2008 when the first campaign of wind tunnel testing was carried out at the ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) for ANKA, a MALE (Medium Altitude Long) Endurance) belongs to Turkish Aerospace.

During the visit Ozmen said that Turkish Aerospace gave high appreciation for BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 in the development of its Unmanned Air System. Ozmen said that since 2008 BBTA3 and Turkish Aerospace have collaborated on five wind tunnel testing campaigns for unmanned aircraft.

The collaboration between BBTA3 (Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aeroelastika and Aeroakustika) BPPT and Turkish Aerospace began in 2008 when the first campaign of wind tunnel testing was carried out at the ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) for ANKA, a MALE (Medium Altitude Long) Endurance) belongs to Turkish Aerospace.

BBTA32.jpg


The first wind tunnel testing campaign was carried out on the full configuration ANKA model and the 2D wing model. This testing campaign is aimed at obtaining aerodynamic characteristics of the first variant. This testing campaign was carried out for eight months from March to November 2008. The data collected very much during this test plays a very important role both for developing software for the autopilot control system, as well as for verifying flight performance before the first flight.

The second testing campaign was held at ILST in April-May 2015 for other ANKA variants including the SATCOM variant. Tests for the scaled model in this campaign were carried out to obtain effects of wing deformation, communication equipment installations such as SAR and SATCOM radomes, EO / IR cameras, winglets and air inlets on ANKA aerodynamic characteristics.

A third wind tunnel testing campaign at ILST was conducted on the ANKA-NG (Next Generation) wing in full scale in June 2015. Aerodynamic hinge moment data for 2D wings were obtained for various trailing edge deflections. This data is very important in the development of deicing systems or anti-contamination on the surface of the wing during the operating cycle.

The fourth wind tunnel testing campaign was carried out for ANK-NG at ILST BBTA3 in the scaled model. In this test the effects of the new wing geometry on the forces and moments of aerodynamics were examined as many as 60 polar valid data.

"The four ANKA wind tunnel testing campaigns at ILST have made a major contribution to the development of the ANKA UAV System with superior flight performance and improved safety features," said Tamer Ozmen, Vice President of Turkish Aerospace for Corporate Marketing and Communication on his visit last October 11 to BBTA3 BPPT.

Ozmen said that currently ANKA is a MALE-class UAV with proven combat for Intelligence, Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Strike Systems both for domestic security and maritime surveillance operations. ANKA is now ready for the necessary military missions with various payload configurations.

At present Turkish Aerospace is continuing its collaboration with BBTA3 for the fifth time in wind tunnel testing of the new UAV System for High Payload Capacity.

The fifth testing campaign is aimed at obtaining the aerodynamic characteristics of their new aircraft model, YFYK, which is scaled in full configuration. This testing campaign will begin in September 2018 and it is planned to obtain 233 polar aerodynamic data including for various deflection of control fields and various configuration of payloads until the end of October 2018.


Ozmen added that Turkish Aerospace is very grateful for BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 in the successful development of the Turkish Aerospace UAV product line, he hopes this collaboration will continue for the foreseeable future.

On this occasion, the Head of the Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aerospace and Aeroacustics (BBTA3), Agency for the Assessment and Application of Technology (BPPT), Fadilah Hasim acknowledged that cooperation with Turkish Aerospace in UAV aerodynamic testing was very beneficial. Fadilah said that in 2008 when BBTA3 BPPT (formerly LAGG) began cooperation in the development of ANKA UAVs with Turkish Aerospace, new unmanned aircraft technology began to develop.

"The ANKA wind tunnel testing campaign provides an opportunity to gain experience studying small UAV aircraft or aircraft with low Reynolds numbers," Fadilah said.

According to Fadilah, the aerodynamics database for low Reynolds numbers is still relatively limited compared to databases for high Reynolds numbers which are usually owned by large aircraft which are already widely available in books and various literature.

"But planes with small wings are very sensitive even though they are small disturbances, there is still not much database. We have the opportunity to study, "he added.

Fadilah explained that the aircraft model testing facility at BBTA3 BPPT namely ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) is a wind tunnel with a test section measuring 4 m × 3 m, which was built by President B.J. Habibie uses technology from Germany and the Netherlands.

"Our wind tunnels are very precise with very low turbulence intensity below 0.1 percent, very thin boundary layers below 5 percent, and very uniform flow angles," Fadilah said.

"The ILST wind tunnel is a world-class wind tunnel, and we always try our best to maintain it well," he continued. (BBTA3 BPPT / Humas / HMP)

https://www.bppt.go.id/teknologi-ha...at-udara-nir-awak-uav-unmanned-aerial-vehicle
 
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Indonesian Male UAV consortium is lead by BPPT (Government Research Agency). After I dig a bit more it turn out that BPPT and TAI have long relationship in developing Anka UAV. It means our defense industry relationship is not started in 2015 when we made medium tank together but long before that. BPPT and LAPAN (Space Agency) so far is the most experience institution in Indonesia in developing UAV and it is why this institution is appointed to lead Indonesian MALE UAV consortium. BPPT also has experience testing PTDI aircraft development.

Google translate

TAI strengthens cooperation for UAV Testing with BPPT

The collaboration began during the development of ANKA's unmanned aircraft vehicle (UAV) in 2008
İqbal Musyaffa | 12.10.2018

Turkish aerospace company, Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) paid a visit to the Technology Assessment and Application Agency (BPPT) in Serpong, South Tangerang on Thursday, to strengthen cooperation.

The visit marked the 10th year of cooperation between the companies and institutions of the two countries.

TAI Vice President Corporate Marketing and Communication Tamer Ozmen told Anadolu Agency that the cooperation between the two parties has been ongoing since 2008.

"The collaboration began when the ANKA unmanned aircraft vehicle (UAV) was developed," Tamer said.

At that time, TAI conducted a wind tunnel test for ANKA UAV at the Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel (ILST) owned by the Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aerospace, and Aerospace (BBTA3) BPPT.

ANKA is a medium altitude long endurance (MALE) unmanned aircraft (UAV) developed by TAI. The test is to obtain data on the aerodynamic characteristics of the UAV.

Then, Tamer explained the second test conducted by TAI at BBTA3 for other ANKA variants including SATCOM variants from April to May 2015.

This test is to obtain data related to the effects of deformation (deformation) of wings, SAR and SATCOM, cameras, winglets, and air inlet in ANKA aerodynamic characteristics.

Subsequently, in April and June 2015 a full scale test was carried out for the wings of the latest generation ANKA. And the fourth test was carried out in October 2017 for all the latest generation ANKA configurations.

"The four wind tunnel tests at ILST have contributed greatly to the development of the ANKA UAV system with superior flight performance and enhanced safety features," Tamer acknowledged.

Tamer asserted that the MALE-class UAV ANKA has a system of intelligence, reconnaissance, surveillance, and attacks for combat that has been tested for internal security in Turkey.

"In addition, ANKA has also been tested for surveillance operations used by various end users in Turkey," Tamer added.

Tamer also said that currently ANKA was ready to serve military missions with various payload configurations needed by the air forces of various countries.

"ANKA has had a mature experience and has flown in Turkey and other countries for anti-terrorism activities as well as land and sea surveillance," said Tamer.

Currently, TAI is also collaborating with BBTA3 for the fifth time in testing the UAV system's payload capacity in ILST to obtain aerodynamic characteristic data for the latest unmanned aircraft being developed by TAI

"We greatly appreciate BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 for the success of the development of our UAV product lineup and this is crucial to maintaining a useful collaboration for years to come," said Tamer.

https://www.aa.com.tr/id/dunia/tai-perkuat-kerja-sama-pengujian-uav-dengan-bppt/1279558
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From BPPT website (Google Translate)

2008-2018, A Decade of Cooperation between Indonesia and Turkey in Testing Wind Tunnels for the Development of Nir Awak Aircraft (UAVs, Unmanned Aerial Vehicles)

BBTA3.jpg

Turkish Aerospace Vice President for Corporate Marketing and Communication, Tamer Özmen, and Executive Vice President for Unmanned Air Systems, Omer Yildiz, along with other management teams visited the Center for Aerodynamics, Aerolastics and Aeroacustics (BBTA3) BPPT, in the Science Research Center area Knowledge and Technology (PUSPIPTEK), South Tangerang, 11 October 2018.

The collaboration between BBTA3 (Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aeroelastika and Aeroakustika) BPPT and Turkish Aerospace began in 2008 when the first campaign of wind tunnel testing was carried out at the ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) for ANKA, a MALE (Medium Altitude Long) Endurance) belongs to Turkish Aerospace.

During the visit Ozmen said that Turkish Aerospace gave high appreciation for BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 in the development of its Unmanned Air System. Ozmen said that since 2008 BBTA3 and Turkish Aerospace have collaborated on five wind tunnel testing campaigns for unmanned aircraft.

The collaboration between BBTA3 (Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aeroelastika and Aeroakustika) BPPT and Turkish Aerospace began in 2008 when the first campaign of wind tunnel testing was carried out at the ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) for ANKA, a MALE (Medium Altitude Long) Endurance) belongs to Turkish Aerospace.

BBTA32.jpg


The first wind tunnel testing campaign was carried out on the full configuration ANKA model and the 2D wing model. This testing campaign is aimed at obtaining aerodynamic characteristics of the first variant. This testing campaign was carried out for eight months from March to November 2008. The data collected very much during this test plays a very important role both for developing software for the autopilot control system, as well as for verifying flight performance before the first flight.

The second testing campaign was held at ILST in April-May 2015 for other ANKA variants including the SATCOM variant. Tests for the scaled model in this campaign were carried out to obtain effects of wing deformation, communication equipment installations such as SAR and SATCOM radomes, EO / IR cameras, winglets and air inlets on ANKA aerodynamic characteristics.

A third wind tunnel testing campaign at ILST was conducted on the ANKA-NG (Next Generation) wing in full scale in June 2015. Aerodynamic hinge moment data for 2D wings were obtained for various trailing edge deflections. This data is very important in the development of deicing systems or anti-contamination on the surface of the wing during the operating cycle.

The fourth wind tunnel testing campaign was carried out for ANK-NG at ILST BBTA3 in the scaled model. In this test the effects of the new wing geometry on the forces and moments of aerodynamics were examined as many as 60 polar valid data.

"The four ANKA wind tunnel testing campaigns at ILST have made a major contribution to the development of the ANKA UAV System with superior flight performance and improved safety features," said Tamer Ozmen, Vice President of Turkish Aerospace for Corporate Marketing and Communication on his visit last October 11 to BBTA3 BPPT.

Ozmen said that currently ANKA is a MALE-class UAV with proven combat for Intelligence, Reconnaissance, Surveillance and Strike Systems both for domestic security and maritime surveillance operations. ANKA is now ready for the necessary military missions with various payload configurations.

At present Turkish Aerospace is continuing its collaboration with BBTA3 for the fifth time in wind tunnel testing of the new UAV System for High Payload Capacity.

The fifth testing campaign is aimed at obtaining the aerodynamic characteristics of their new aircraft model, YFYK, which is scaled in full configuration. This testing campaign will begin in September 2018 and it is planned to obtain 233 polar aerodynamic data including for various deflection of control fields and various configuration of payloads until the end of October 2018.


Ozmen added that Turkish Aerospace is very grateful for BPPT's contribution through BBTA3 in the successful development of the Turkish Aerospace UAV product line, he hopes this collaboration will continue for the foreseeable future.

On this occasion, the Head of the Center for Aerodynamic Technology, Aerospace and Aeroacustics (BBTA3), Agency for the Assessment and Application of Technology (BPPT), Fadilah Hasim acknowledged that cooperation with Turkish Aerospace in UAV aerodynamic testing was very beneficial. Fadilah said that in 2008 when BBTA3 BPPT (formerly LAGG) began cooperation in the development of ANKA UAVs with Turkish Aerospace, new unmanned aircraft technology began to develop.

"The ANKA wind tunnel testing campaign provides an opportunity to gain experience studying small UAV aircraft or aircraft with low Reynolds numbers," Fadilah said.

According to Fadilah, the aerodynamics database for low Reynolds numbers is still relatively limited compared to databases for high Reynolds numbers which are usually owned by large aircraft which are already widely available in books and various literature.

"But planes with small wings are very sensitive even though they are small disturbances, there is still not much database. We have the opportunity to study, "he added.

Fadilah explained that the aircraft model testing facility at BBTA3 BPPT namely ILST (Indonesian Low Speed Tunnel) is a wind tunnel with a test section measuring 4 m × 3 m, which was built by President B.J. Habibie uses technology from Germany and the Netherlands.

"Our wind tunnels are very precise with very low turbulence intensity below 0.1 percent, very thin boundary layers below 5 percent, and very uniform flow angles," Fadilah said.

"The ILST wind tunnel is a world-class wind tunnel, and we always try our best to maintain it well," he continued. (BBTA3 BPPT / Humas / HMP)

https://www.bppt.go.id/teknologi-ha...at-udara-nir-awak-uav-unmanned-aerial-vehicle
It looks a bit exaggarated in my opinion, TAI was only cooperating with Indonesian partner for courtesy of which has been signed long ago. If indonesia was this much "contributing" to ANKA project, then they would indeed purchase some systems or would develop their own MALE UAV, instead of directly purchasing from China. I have early said that, if Indonesia was enthusiastic enough ANKA Aksungur would be a co-developed project.
Moreover, the article makes it look like Indonesia was the one who has developed aerodynamic form of the ANKA and ANKA Aksungur, But turkey has wind tunnel and test capabilities since quite long time ago. Both in TUBITAK,METU and ITU, moreover TAI has people who works on aerodynamic design who runs simulations and since awhile, like since initiation of the project, TAI was using UhEM, high performance computational center located in ITU. Recently they have decided to found their own super computer for engineering simulations.
Finally, TAI also works with subcontractors who deliver parts, like a company from Pakistan, Seems like they worked with Indonesia as in subcontractor frame rather than a " partner" , for some matter to establish a stronger partnership in the future.
People often likes to use "cooperation", in this context it was wrongly used.
 
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India also has Brahmos 2 but I don't know if either country would sell them.
BrahMos-2 is hypersonic and quite far in future. BrahMos-A is huge and requires a modified heavy fighter. BrahMos-NG is half the size and will be ideal. But we all know how far fetched this cooperation is.

Turkey's best bet is YJ12 or HD-1 from China.
 
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It looks a bit exaggarated in my opinion, TAI was only cooperating with Indonesian partner for courtesy of which has been signed long ago. If indonesia was this much "contributing" to ANKA project, then they would indeed purchase some systems or would develop their own MALE UAV, instead of directly purchasing from China. I have early said that, if Indonesia was enthusiastic enough ANKA Aksungur would be a co-developed project.

Indonesia is rather slow on developing UAV MALE is more because dont have much support from the previous government. If we have enough financial support, Indonesia even will start competing with Boeing and Airbus in passenger jet market since middle 2000 with N 2130 program that has been started since 1995 but back down due to financial crisis.

Actually Indonesia has started its own MALE UAV program in 2015 and finished prototype has been revealed recently. You can look on my recent thread to see it.

As said by those article in which the second one is more detail that the contribution is more on testing the design and since BPPT has huge experience on testing aircraft design so it is not surprise if TAI use BPPT expertise on it. For your information BPPT is responsible in testing all PT Dirgantara Indonesia aircraft development like CN 235, N 250, N 2130, N 219, N245 and even KFX/IFX. Latest testing is for R 80 aircraft that is currently going on. And those testing are very important and crucial and the first testing even takes about 8 months and TAI has tested their UAV 5 times in BPPT. Many data from the testing that is taken from that period is not something small and we are both benefited from that test.
 
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Indonesia is rather slow on developing UAV MALE is more because dont have much support from the previous government. If we have enough financial support, Indonesia even will start competing with Boeing and Airbus in passenger jet market since middle 2000 with N 2130 program that has been started since 1995 but back down due to financial crisis.

Actually Indonesia has started its own MALE UAV program in 2015 and finished prototype has been revealed recently. You can look on my recent thread to see it.

As said by those article in which the second one is more detail that the contribution is more on testing the design and since BPPT has huge experience on testing aircraft design so it is not surprise if TAI use BPPT expertise on it. For your information BPPT is responsible in testing all PT Dirgantara Indonesia aircraft development like CN 235, N 250, N 2130, N 219, N245 and even KFX/IFX. Latest testing is for R 80 aircraft that is currently going on. And those testing are very important and crucial and the first testing even takes about 8 months and TAI has tested their UAV 5 times in BPPT. Many data from the testing that is taken from that period is not something small and we are both benefited from that test.
I havent said anything regarding to indonesia's capability on testing aircraft, what i have said that the post was exaggarated and indonesia's contribution is limited and its not under " partnership" but its under a "courtesy". Which TAI has already conducted those tests with local capabilities and done some of them with indonesia for some MoU signature, or maybe even as an offset for some other things indonesia has purchased from Turkey.
So after all, indonesia hasnt actually contributed to design of the Turkish UAVs, just conducted some tests which TAI has needed, and preferred to do in indonesia. Turkey also sometimes conduct tests in Germany, or France which doesnt necessarily means they contributing to the design.
 
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ne...-military-drones-armed-with-machine-guns/amp/

Don't know if someone posted this already.

I think we should install a large machine gun to one of our big drones. I'm sure there is a way to stabilize it. Imagine an Akinci shooting down at terrorists.
You can't put a machine gun in a UAV flying out of range of Manpads. This aircraft was designed to launch cruise missiles or smart bombs. Not for machine guns or anti-aircraft guns.
 
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