Akbar's fort symbol of subjugation of Hindus,want the imposing structure to be replaced : VHP

[lavenge lavenge]

Learn some history before you speak. Both Yuan and Manchu claimed Chinese mandate of Heaven to rule as Chinese empire. They are not ethnically Han, but the imperial governing system, language and culture remained Han.

All dynasty were led by Han, except the two mentioned above.

So as long as i claim mandate of Heaven, I am free to enslave Hans, kill their menfolk, rape their womenfolk, commit genocide, and sell them like slaves.

After all this was what was done by Yuan dynasty.

Monogols wanted to kill all Chinese but changed their mind when he was convinved by a Chinese philosopher that keeping Hans as slaves was much better financial proposition than kill them.

 

[Fattyacids]

Which emperors were even part Han Chinese? Show me.

Yes, we're talking about subjugation. Where small amounts of Manchurians, who weren't Chinese to begin with took over all of China. It's still a small minority of people controlling a vast amout of people that's not them. I dont care if they took your form of government, etc.

Ancient Greeks, Central Asians, etc. came to India and converted to Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. and ruled N.W. parts of India. They were considered foreigners, until they lost their rule and mixed in with the population.

Ancestry is determined by paternal side, if father is Turki, doesn't matter mother is Bengali or Rajput. The Mughal emperor is still considered Turki. Ditto Chinese emperor.

Don't make uneducated argument, "Small amount of Manchu" allied with another Han Chinese faction to seize Ming throne. Without Han faction, of course they would't succeed. That's why governing system...the empire remained as Chinese empire. Manchu were vassal to Han to begin with. This is completely different with Timur or Mughal's case.

Sovereignty of a state is not determined by religion, they do not called themselves Hindu kingdom. These central Asians actually brought more foreign culture to Indian subcon, Islam for example.

 

[lavenge lavenge]

I am not an architect but know that architecture is not about Mensuration alone, otherwise every Tom Dick and Harry would be erecting buildings and nobody had to waste 4 long years in architecture/civil engineering degree courses. In the list, I could see several names form Mughal time? Howcome? According to you, all the Universities were ransacked and books burnt? How did the evil illiterate Mughals allowed this Hindu mathematicians to work against the will of God?

There were no Hindu mathematicians in area occupied by Islam. All medieval Hindu mathematicians were from Kerala school of mathematics which is in deep south where muslim rule never reached.

And yes, Muslims of Delhi sultanate sacked every university and burned every library that was in their dominion.

And regarding architecture, It needed very little to no mathematics in pre-newtonian period. It was simple measurement.

Civil engineering course is of four years today because of advancement since scientific revolution of last two centuries. All the complex Bending moment, Shear stress equations are on last century only.

 

[syedali73]

There were no Hindu mathematicians in area occupied by Islam. All medieval Hindu mathematicians were from Kerala school of mathematics which is in deep south where muslim rule never reached.

And yes, Muslims of Delhi sultanate sacked every university and burned every library that was in their dominion.

And regarding architecture, It needed very little to no mathematics in pre-newtonian period. It was simple measurement.

Civil engineering course is of four years today because of advancement since scientific revolution of last two centuries. All the complex Bending moment, Shear stress equations are on last century only.

Anybody can talk nonsense but its plain stupid, in-fact dwonright lunacy to assume that Muslims ruled India for 900 years without any investment in education, science and technology. There is a publication here that sheds light on that.

Science in India during the Muslim rule - Zakaria Verk

https://www.alislam.org/egazette/articles/Science-in-India-during-the-Muslim-Rule.pdf

You are an incorrigible person like many of your kind. I'll let you live with your hate, denouncing, and ignorance. Cheers.

 

[Fattyacids]

So as long as i claim mandate of Heaven, I am free to enslave Hans, kill their menfolk, rape their womenfolk, commit genocide, and sell them like slaves.

After all this was what was done by Yuan dynasty.

Monogols wanted to kill all Chinese but changed their mind when he was convinved by a CHinese philosophet that keeping Hans as slaves was much better financial proposition than kill them.

None of what you said is true. Yuan court is made up of Han chinese officials. Mongol army too.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Ancestry is determined by paternal side, if father is Turki, it doesn't matter mother is Bengali or Rajput. It's the same in Chinese society, manchu emperors.

Again, which Manchu emperors were even part Han?

Don't uneducated argument, "Small amount of Manchu" allied with another Chinese faction to seize the Ming throne. Without Chinese support, of course they would't succeed. That is why governing system, culture and remained as Chinese empire. Manchu were originally vassal to Chinese
.

In the same case with the Greeks and Central Asians. They also had Indian mercenaries and opportunists. That's always a given.

Sovereignty of a state is not determined by religion, they do not called themselves Hindu kingdom. Two, central Asian actually bought Islam into India.

No, in ancient India it's means a lot. And the Central Asians Im talking about are the ones that converted to Hinduism. Before Islam even existed.

Doesnt matter if the emperors were worshiping Hindu gods, or took Hindu forms of ruling, or took Indian script, they were still outsiders ruling Indians. No different from Manchurians to the Hans.

If the Japanese came with Chinese allies and took China today. Stripped the western Communist style one party system and declared they're rulers because they claim the mandate of heaven, stripped western skyscrapers with Chinese wooden ones, they're Chinese?

If the British came into India with Indian allies, strip western democracy for some sort of Hindu form of government, they're Indian?

Of course not.

Same thing.

 

[lavenge lavenge]

None of what you said is true. Yuan court is made up of Han chinese officials. Mongol army too.

Since you insist.

this source from ideology of your party

“On his deathbed, he ordered that Xi Xia [Hsia] be wiped from the face of the earth. Obedient as always, Khan's successors leveled whole cities and towns, killing or enslaving all their inhabitants.”

And as Fitzgerald further comments:
"According to the Chinese history not more than one hundredth part of the population survived, the countryside was covered with human bones, the cities left desolate. The north-west has never recovered from this disaster. Many of the border cities were never reoccupied, and have been invaded by the drifting sands of the [Taklimakan] desert. The irrigation works fell into decay for lack of attention, and the country reverted to steppe."
C.P Fitzgerald, "China - A Short Cultural History", Century Hutchinson, Melbourne, p 433

“A region which in T'ang times had been wealthy and cultured, as the Buddhist Scriptures and cave monasteries prove, became a semi-desert, the poorest and most backward part of the Chinese Empire."

C.P Fitzgerald, "China - A Short Cultural History", Century Hutchinson, Melbourne, p 433.

A Brief Guide To Early Chinese History: The Mongol Conquest Of China And Its Consequences | London Progressive Journal

 

[Fattyacids]

Again, which Manchu emperors were even part Han?

In the same case with the Greeks and Central Asians. They also had Indian mercenaries and opportunists. That's always a given.

Are you dumb? Didn't I say the ancestry determined by father. Even if mother side is Han, they are still consider Manchu.

Greeks and Central Asians were never vassals to any Hindu Kingdoms. Recruiting slaves as infantry is norm everywhere, it's irrelevant to the point.

Don't sidestep to making absurd argument or posting picture to help your weak reasoning.

No, in ancient India it's means a lot. And the Central Asians Im talking about are the ones that converted to Hinduism. Before Islam even existed.

Doesnt matter if the emperors were worshiping Hindu gods, or took Hindu forms of ruling, or took Indian script, they were still outsiders ruling Indians. No different from Manchurians to the Hans.

If the Japanese came with Chinese allies and took China today. Stripped the western Communist style one party system and declared they're rulers because they claim the mandate of heaven, stripped western skyscrapers with Chinese wooden ones, they're Chinese?


If the British came into India with Indian allies, strip western democracy for some sort of Hindu form of government, they're Indian?

Of course not.

Same thing.

Failed analogy again.
Manchu weren't outsider, they neighbor and vassal to Chinese for centuries. Greeks and central Asians are foreigners who came from far to conquer. Hence, they do not called theirs as Hindu empire, like Manchu called themselves Chinese. They imposed their system and the culture on you, that's what you called subjugation.

Absurd reasoning!!!!!!. Today's notion of sovereignty of state is different to that centuries ago. You cannot apply it retrospectively. Even Chinese don't use Mandate of Heaven today!

Again, British weren't vassal to Hindu. British never claimed to be Hindu, they can't, they won't. Manchu are neighbor, vassal and even the same race.

 

[Steakhouse]

Again, which Manchu emperors were even part Han?




In the same case with the Greeks and Central Asians. They also had Indian mercenaries and opportunists. That's always a given.



No, in ancient India it's means a lot. And the Central Asians Im talking about are the ones that converted to Hinduism. Before Islam even existed.

Doesnt matter if the emperors were worshiping Hindu gods, or took Hindu forms of ruling, or took Indian script, they were still outsiders ruling Indians. No different from Manchurians to the Hans.

If the Japanese came with Chinese allies and took China today. Stripped the western Communist style one party system and declared they're rulers because they claim the mandate of heaven, stripped western skyscrapers with Chinese wooden ones, they're Chinese?

If the British came into India with Indian allies, strip western democracy for some sort of Hindu form of government, they're Indian?

Of course not.

Same thing.

Not the same thing because Manchu is a minority Chinese even after Manchu king dethrone, Manchu land still remain part of China territory, Manchu expanded China territory into Mongolia and Tibet, the fall of Manchu king China still retain most of the territory except Outer Mongolia, south Tibet, part of Manchu territory border with Russia, Manchu are minority Chinese, however Briton never intend to be Indian except rule over India. British left India and no Briton remain. British didn't lose any territory or minority Briton lived in India after the independent from the British.

 

[SelfServeFive]

Manchu were not an alien civilization. They were Ming vassals. Change of ruling royal family is just like Sonia Gandhi ruling Indians. Mongols were an alien civilization. They were like Timur ruling Indians. Mongols only lasted 100 years in China. Much longer in India. Islam and Anglos subjugated Indians for 1000 years and gave you your inferiority complex.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Are you dumb? Didn't I told the ancestry determined by father. Even if mother side is Han, they are still consider Manchu.

Greeks and Central Asians were never vassals to any Hindu Kingdoms. Recruiting Hindu or slaves as infantry is not irrelevant to the point.

Don't sidestep to making absurd argument or posting picture to help your argument.

Again, did ANY of the emperors have at least a drop of Han in them after they look over China? Or did they stick to their ethnic minority?

Failed analogy again.
Manchu weren't outsider, they neighbor and vassal to Chinese for centuries. Greeks and central Asians are foreigners who came from far to conquer. Hence, they do not called theirs as Hindu empire like Manchu called their Chinese. They also do not follow the culture and language. This is exactly what you called subjugation.

Absurd reasoning. Today's notion of sovereignty of state is different to that centuries ago.

British weren't vassal to Hindu. British are of different race. Manchu are neighbor, vassal and same race

No, when the Greeks and Central Asians invaded, they were neighbors for a long period of time actually, even if they werent doesnt matter. Japanese, Koreans are your neighbors today, are you going to roll out the red carpet for them after they invade, subjugate you, but took some forms of your culture? No different from Mongol or Manchurian invasions of China/Hans.

Is India going to roll out the red carpet for Nepalis or Bangladeshis after they invade, but use Indian forms of government and other bullshit? Of course not. Dont give me that BS.

 

[Fattyacids]

Again, did ANY of the emperors have at least a drop of Han in them after they look over China? Or did they stick to their ethnic minority?

Yes, but they follow paternal blood line.

If you want to make a case based on ethnic line, then there was never an Indian. They are different ethnicities, Punjabi, Bengali, Tamil....

No, when the Greeks and Central Asians invaded, they were neighbors for a long period of time actually, even if they werent doesnt matter. Japanese, Koreans are your neighbors today, are you going to roll out the red carpet for them after they invade, subjugate you, but took some forms of your culture? No different from Mongol or Manchurian invasions of China/Hans.

Is India going to roll out the red carpet for Nepalis or Bangladeshis after they invade, but use Indian forms of government and other bullshit? Of course not. Dont give me that BS.

You can't even tell a proper lie. Greece and Ubzek don't share a border, aren't neighbor. Point 2. They were not vassal to any Hindu kingdom.

Again, don't make absurd argument, even if you're losing the debate. Historical notion of a state is not the same as today's standard, just like you can't judge history using today's morality.

To your absurd question: If japanese and Korean were vassal who revolted and claimed Chinese Mandate of Heaven in 16th century, then yes.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Yes, but they follow paternal blood line.

I'll take that as a no.

You can't even tell a proper lie. Greece and Central Asian aren't neighbor. Nor were they vassal to any Hindu kingdom.

Im not talking about Greece or Central Asia. Im talking about the Greeks and Central Asians who stayed at the borders of the Indian subcontinent, then entered NW parts of India. Long after Alexander.

To your absurd question: If japanese and Korean ARE vassal who revolted, and claimed Chinese mandate, then yes.

Oh, yeah, good lie on that part. You Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are ultra nationalist today, I cant even imagine the sentiments of the Hans, Manchurians, Mongols then.

 

[Fattyacids]

Since you insist.

this source from ideology of your party

A Brief Guide To Early Chinese History: The Mongol Conquest Of China And Its Consequences | London Progressive Journal

Who is londonprogressivejournal.com ????? Try some proper academic source instead.

You don't even know the history you're quoting. Xi Xia is just one of the smaller dynasty. The passage quoted is Genghis khan era. He didn't manage to take all China. We are talking about Yuan dynasty that came century later.

 

[Steakhouse]

I'll take that as a no.



Im not talking about Greece or Central Asia. Im talking about the Greeks and Central Asians who stayed at the borders of the Indian subcontinent, then entered NW parts of India. Long after Alexander.



Oh, yeah, good lie on that part. You Chinese, Japanese, Koreans are ultra nationalist today, I cant even imagine the sentiments of the Hans, Manchurians, Mongols then.

Can you find a Manchu country on the map? Can you find a British in the map? Chinese passport stamp Manchu as Chinese, Indian passport didn't stamp Briton as Indian. British never want to be call Indian but the ruler of India during the British India subcontinent.

Manchu are Chinese, there no Manchu national in this world.