Akbar Bugti Killed | Bughtis announce end of Sardari system

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sparten,

While one would love to believe that you are right, but then the editorials and commentaries in the Pakistani newspapers have gone hammer and tongs on the Pakistani government for this killing of Nawab Akhbar Khan.

Maybe the belief that the newspapers represent the views of the common man of Pakistan is erroneous and that of you all on the PFF is the reality.

It would be better and more convincing if you could let us know how what Lahori is stating is incorrect rather than admonishing him.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Daily Times

Saturday, September 02, 2006 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

Government buries Bugti

* No family member attends burial
* Nobody shown Bugti’s face except for DCO and prayer leader

By Malik Siraj Akbar

QUETTA: Tribal chief Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, who was killed in a military operation on August 26, was laid quietly to rest amidst tight security at 10am in Dera Bugti on Friday.

A plywood box sealed by two Chinese-made locks contained Bugti’s body. None of the late Nawab’s family was at the burial, which was attended by Dera Bugti District Coordination Officer (DCO) Abdul Samad Lasi and a few members of the recently elected Bugti tribal jirga. According to AP, journalists at the graveyard demanded that the coffin be opened for them to see Bugti’s body, but the DCO refused, saying “it is illegal to show his face”.

“The funeral prayers were attended by around 20 people, and nobody was shown Bugti’s face except for prayer leader Maulana Maluk Bugti and the DCO,” a witness told Daily Times. “The body, which government officials claimed had been damaged, was kept in a locked coffin,” he added.

Bugti was laid to rest beside his younger brother Ahmed Nawaz Bugti, a former member of the National Assembly who died last year.

The DCO showed reporters Bugti’s wristwatch and glasses, saying that the late Nawab’s wallet had also been found with Rs 15,000 in it. The Bugti family’s reaction to the quiet burial, which wanted the body handed over to it, was furious.

“Since day one, I have been arguing that the government is lying about my father’s body,” Jamil Bugti, the son of Akbar Bugti, told Daily Times. “We know that the body is in their custody and they were only fooling the whole country by excavating the cave where, we believe, there was no body. They have kept the body in their custody in an attempt to reach a compromise with us. Isn’t it strange that in the beginning, they offered us to go with them to get the body? It means that the body was with them. When we refused, they said that the body was buried under the rubble of the cave. Had we agreed to go with them, they would have handed the body to us,” he said.

“How could we go with the murderers of my father? All that we had been demanding was that the body should have been given to us in Quetta,” he added.

He said that Bugti’s death had orphaned the Baloch nation. “We wanted everybody to catch a glimpse of the late Nawab’s face, but the government deprived us of this honour.”

Nawab Talal Bugti, another son of the late Nawab, said the family had been “hurt by the way in which the government had treated his father”.

Talal Bugti said the body buried on Friday was “most probably not his father’s”. “If it was my father’s body, why didn’t they give it to us? The government is playing a game,” he added. Agha Shahid Bugti, secretary general of the Jamhoori Watan Party and Bugti’s son-in-law, said it was un-Islamic to refuse handing a dead man’s body to his family. “Why was the body given to the jirga when everybody knows that the members of the jirga were opponents of the late Nawab,” he said.

DCO Abdul Samad Lasi said the government had offered the Bugti family a helicopter ride to Dera Bugti to enable them to attend the burial, but they refused. “The body had to be buried immediately because it was badly damaged,” he said. “Where else should the government have taken Bugti’s body except for his own town?” he said.

Meanwhile, opposition leaders in Balochistan criticised the government for not giving Bugti’s body to his family.

What was the problem to show the face of the dead person?

Is there a possibility that the person inthe coffin is not Bugti as is being claimed?

 

[Lahori paa jee]

It will be Bugti in that grave but i feel government is trying to hide the reason of his death

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Then, was it very mutilated and so it would have been a shock to the family and that is why they did not want to show the body?

Indeed, a very nice gesture.

 

[Sid]

Its not about a mutilated body. Suggestions are he was killed intentionally after capturing him alive which is why his glasses and watch shown to the press seemed almost unscratched. Showing the body to the family would've revealed something other than the government's claim of him dying due to a cave-in.

 

[Sid]

Why would a man who does not have roots in Pakistan care for this country. He is from Dehli. He is ruling us and when the time comes he will be on the first flight to New York.

And I wonder why is it that every Punjabi I meet around the world (whether from Pakistan or India) identifies himself first as a Punjabi and not Pakistani or Indian? Some technical problems in upbringing?

When you make silly remarks, be prepared to get some flack for it.

In all this episode its only Punjab which has suffered the most. We have yet again been distance from the small provinces. Bugtis killing will only be seen as another move to establish the writ of Punjab in Baluchistan.

Adding fuel to fire, S.O.B. Chaudhry Pervaiz Elahi has assured Pervaiz Musharraf of full support from Punjab for all his actions. He said this during the inauguration of gas supply to Murree the same gas which is being pumped from Dera Bugti

On the other hand, Our Interior Minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao has not even said a word in favour of Mushy. He is a sensible man and knows what could be the out come. I wish he put some sense in Pervaiz Elahi and Pervaiz Musharraf too

Unfortunately, that has been Punjab's curse. Therefore, I for one totally support to idea of carving out more provinces according to a plan presented by some analysts a couple of months back.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

And I wonder why is it that every Punjabi I meet around the world (whether from Pakistan or India) identifies himself first as a Punjabi and not Pakistani or Indian? Some technical problems in upbringing?

When you make silly remarks, be prepared to get some flack for it.

Unfortunately, that has been Punjab's curse. Therefore, I for one totally support to idea of carving out more provinces according to a plan presented by some analysts a couple of months back.

Read the whole thread first and then make ur suggestions

And im more than ready to take on criticism provided it has some sense in it

 

[Srirangan]

"why is it that every Punjabi I meet around the world (whether from Pakistan or India) identifies himself first as a Punjabi and not Pakistani or Indian"

Again, I beg to differ.

 

[Srirangan]

Bugti operation ill-conceived, badly-handled: ex-generals
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\03\story_3-9-2006_pg1_1


* Say army shouldn’t have been used to capture Bugti
* Regime must end practice of unilateral action

By Zulfiqar Ghuman

ISLAMABAD: Pressure is mounting on President General Pervez Musharraf. Not only have an increasing number of politicians already slammed the August 26 military action that resulted in the death of Nawab Akbar Bugti – several former top military generals and erstwhile Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chiefs have also joined the chorus.

According to former chief of army staff, General (r) Mirza Aslam Beg: “It was an ill-conceived idea and badly-handled operation to capture an 80-year-old man (already) disowned by his own tribe and hiding in a cave. The second mistake was that the task to capture Nawab Bugti was given to (the) Pakistan Army, instead of other law-enforcement agencies, despite the knowledge that he would die fighting instead of surrendering to military force.”

General Beg identified Islamabad’s third and most serious mistake as failing to hand over Bugti’s body to his relatives for last burial rites. “It was not in consonance with our culture. This has become our sarkari culture – to do the things contrary to cultural norms and national laws.”

He predicted that Bugti’s death would give new impetus to both nationalist parties and the political opposition, which, he said, had so far failed to create any real challenge to the military-led regime.

Former ISI chief Lt Gen (r) Hamid Gul went one step further and called for Supreme Court intervention.

“I think the Supreme Court of Pakistan should take suo moto notice of the incident and investigate whether the military operation and excessive use of force was the only way of capturing Bugti. Responsibility should be fixed and the nation, which has to pay the price for this action, must know the facts.”

As for Lt Gen (r) Talat Masood, he believed that Bugti’s killing would lead to the army facing an increased insurgency in Balochistan, thereby necessitating greater military deployment in the province. This, he said, would bleed both the army and its resources dry.

“The situation will become vulnerable in Balochistan, with army troops already deployed at the eastern and western borders. This would further increase defence force expenditure, resulting in an increase in the defence budget. Foreign elements will also take advantage of the situation.”

Another former ISI chief, Lt Gen (r) Assad Durrani, criticised the military operation, stressing that internal problems should be resolved politically. “The use of military (force) is always the last option. It comes after all political options have been exhausted. And even then, (the) military should remain at the back of law enforcement agencies and not be directly involved against its own people.”

He said that the army should not have been deployed for this particular operation. “As far as the issue of Balochistan is concerned, the military should have not been used and if it was necessary, its participation should have been kept to a minimum.”

 

[Awesome]

Meeh, they'd get over it. Opposition's just creating a lot of Hoo haa to take advantage of the situation while the issue is still hot. Izamam and Hair were a big just a week ago lol the opposition even raised that in the parliament. This would be replaced by the next big thing too.

 

[sparten]

Sparten do u read Pakistani dailies, the editorials, letters to the editors and views of analysts. Your views wont have been the same if u did

Any my dear you have said



If taken together do u know how many of the Pakistan's population these MMA, PML-N, PPP, Karachiites, People of Quetta and Makranis are

Yes I read them. And I also read the Urdu press. And I also have travelled extensivly through Balochistan last year.

The newpapers all want to sell themselves. "pakistan breaking up", "Balochistan is ruins" makes for a good story. "Old rebel popped" dose not.

Lets take a look at Balochistan shall we. The North of the province is Pashtun.The South makarani african. Together they are 65% of the population. 65 % of the population of Balochistan is not even Baloch. Of the baloch, there are 63 tribes and we hagve problems with 3. Of which the in the Bugti tribe, only Akbars Bugtis immediet family is pissed, the rest his tribe hates him with a passion, he could not even go back to Dera Bugti. What do you think the real reason his family did not attend the burial, they were worried they would be ripped to pieces. So scratch one.

The next tribe is the Marris, who are busy surrendering as we speak, while the third are the menghals, who are divided anyhow.

Now these three are not even the biggest tribes in that place, or even close to. Those are the Mazaris, the Legharis and the Jamalis.They would support us in any theoretical Bugti,Marri, Menghal insurgency and would infact gladly do it themselves, if it means that they could destroy their rivals. And infact that is what happened in the 70's.

The opposition has used this as a tool in their anti government crusade.

My advice, research for yourself and don't depend on those drunken scribblers.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Sparten

I made those comments in response to your msg where you said ganja league, MMA and Makranis are trying to cash in on this opportunity.

I just wanted to say if ex-armed forces personnels, journalists, newscasters, analysts, writers, almost all the politicians (except for the bunch of tatoos supporting Mushy) and the public opinion expressed in readers response sections, everyone has condemned this incident and termed it as a dark day in Pakistan's history. If everyone is saying this it must have some weightage

Keeping aside all those i have mentioned, Mush has only a handful of supporters.

 

[sparten]

It is a dark day no doubt, but because of the fact that its the blood of Pakistanis, however traitorous being spilit. It is not another East pakistan, hell its not even another karachi or the 1970's either.

Cheers
Afan

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Yes I read them. And I also read the Urdu press. And I also have travelled extensivly through Balochistan last year.

Travelling does give one an insight, but only very perfunctory. Of course, it is better than if one does not even travel.

The newpapers all want to sell themselves. "pakistan breaking up", "Balochistan is ruins" makes for a good story. "Old rebel popped" dose not.

Indeed that would be true. However, when Army men, who benefit most when there is a General as the President also grumble, and that too if he is one of the heads of the Strategic Institutes, it does make one wonder.

Lets take a look at Balochistan shall we. The North of the province is Pashtun.The South makarani african. Together they are 65% of the population. 65 % of the population of Balochistan is not even Baloch. Of the baloch, there are 63 tribes and we hagve problems with 3. Of which the in the Bugti tribe, only Akbars Bugtis immediet family is pissed, the rest his tribe hates him with a passion, he could not even go back to Dera Bugti. What do you think the real reason his family did not attend the burial, they were worried they would be ripped to pieces. So scratch one.

It does not matter what is the composition. What matters is who calls the tune. In Pakistan, which is a democracy, the Army calls the tune and so one cannot ignore the Army, can one? Likewise, the large part of Balochistan is with the Balochis, even if very sparsely populated. So, it would not be wrong to believe that they call the tune.

Of course, the Bugti family would be ripped to pieces. If Bugti can be taken care of, then why not the others?

The next tribe is the Marris, who are busy surrendering as we speak, while the third are the menghals, who are divided anyhow.

Your analysis. Not the Brigadier's, who is the No 2 of the Strategic Institute.

Now these three are not even the biggest tribes in that place, or even close to. Those are the Mazaris, the Legharis and the Jamalis.They would support us in any theoretical Bugti,Marri, Menghal insurgency and would infact gladly do it themselves, if it means that they could destroy their rivals. And infact that is what happened in the 70's.

That should be the hope of all non Balochis. But what they all as a group do see is that for six decades their resources are fattening the elite of Punjab and that is a very strong sentiment.

The opposition has used this as a tool in their anti government crusade.

That is so obvious.

My advice, research for yourself and don't depend on those drunken scribblers

.

That is what I am also trying to do and to that extent your views are equally important.

However, I disagree with your surmise that anyone who disagree is a drunken scribbler. By that yardstick, there will be too many drunks haunting the world and even this forum and each side would feel the others are drunken scribblers and then the world and the PFF and other fora would become a conglomeration of drunks.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sparten,

This may interest you.

Sunday, September 03, 2006 E-Mail this article to a friend Printer Friendly Version

Bugti operation ill-conceived, badly-handled: ex-generals

* Say army shouldn’t have been used to capture Bugti
* Regime must end practice of unilateral action

By Zulfiqar Ghuman

ISLAMABAD: Pressure is mounting on President General Pervez Musharraf. Not only have an increasing number of politicians already slammed the August 26 military action that resulted in the death of Nawab Akbar Bugti – several former top military generals and erstwhile Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chiefs have also joined the chorus.

According to former chief of army staff, General (r) Mirza Aslam Beg: “It was an ill-conceived idea and badly-handled operation to capture an 80-year-old man (already) disowned by his own tribe and hiding in a cave. The second mistake was that the task to capture Nawab Bugti was given to (the) Pakistan Army, instead of other law-enforcement agencies, despite the knowledge that he would die fighting instead of surrendering to military force.”

General Beg identified Islamabad’s third and most serious mistake as failing to hand over Bugti’s body to his relatives for last burial rites. “It was not in consonance with our culture. This has become our sarkari culture – to do the things contrary to cultural norms and national laws.”

He predicted that Bugti’s death would give new impetus to both nationalist parties and the political opposition, which, he said, had so far failed to create any real challenge to the military-led regime.

Former ISI chief Lt Gen (r) Hamid Gul went one step further and called for Supreme Court intervention.

“I think the Supreme Court of Pakistan should take suo moto notice of the incident and investigate whether the military operation and excessive use of force was the only way of capturing Bugti. Responsibility should be fixed and the nation, which has to pay the price for this action, must know the facts.”

As for Lt Gen (r) Talat Masood, he believed that Bugti’s killing would lead to the army facing an increased insurgency in Balochistan, thereby necessitating greater military deployment in the province. This, he said, would bleed both the army and its resources dry.

“The situation will become vulnerable in Balochistan, with army troops already deployed at the eastern and western borders. This would further increase defence force expenditure, resulting in an increase in the defence budget. Foreign elements will also take advantage of the situation.”

Another former ISI chief, Lt Gen (r) Assad Durrani, criticised the military operation, stressing that internal problems should be resolved politically. “The use of military (force) is always the last option. It comes after all political options have been exhausted. And even then, (the) military should remain at the back of law enforcement agencies and not be directly involved against its own people.”

He said that the army should not have been deployed for this particular operation. “As far as the issue of Balochistan is concerned, the military should have not been used and if it was necessary, its participation should have been kept to a minimum.”
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\03\story_3-9-2006_pg1_1

You will notice that the former Chief of the Army, and two former ISI heads (and by no stretch of imagination can they be called Indian agents and I statethat to offset the usual cry) aren't particularly delighted with the events and nor do they subscribe to your view.