Akbar Bugti Killed | Bughtis announce end of Sardari system

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir,

I don't want to go off-topic nor pick a flamebait. But this is our official responce to India for meddling in our internal affairs, already the second time this year concerning Balochistan.

Khaplang...isn't it a part of Nagaland with burmese minority?
Please coorect me if I'm wrong. :what1:

You are right that is the Pakistani frustration speaking. I am glad they did not include stuff that occurred during the British Raj too!

There have been insurgencies and of that there is no doubt. But the position of as of now is what is pertinent and not trot out history.

As far as Balochistan is concerned, its demand for nationalism started as back as 1948 with the Khan's son spearheading, then the 70s and so on and so forth. One doesn't require to goad them into action. They are perpetually in action!

 

[Spring Onion]

Not factual.

Though I agree, it is silly of the Indian govt to comment on the Balochistan issue.

Sir indeed that should be fair view and statement cuz outr officials or government never commented on Naga Land of Naxalites problem cuz its india's internal affair,

While India in the recent past and now did that which surely shows its frusration.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Sir indeed that should be fair view and statement cuz outr officials or government never commented on Naga Land of Naxalites problem cuz its india's internal affair,

While India in the recent past and now did that which surely shows its frusration.

I have heard the Indian spokesman and what he has said.

What he has said is not wrong.

However, the timing is most inappropriate.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Lahori paa jee again i give importance to education.but unfortuantly you were a victum of nawab bughtis policies and just stood behind him chanting sologans.
if i have to explain to you why people hate BIBI and why people hate harami ganja nawaz sherif.(buy the way if u from lahore you should no all about him and his activities ) then iam waisting my time talking to you.
READ READ READ READ READ and if u cant may i suggest hire some one that can read and explain it to u what they did and what musshy has done oh yes what ever u do dont hire .Srirangan What's the big deal with a college degree anyway)

This has nothing to do with this topic but just to refresh ur memory and to tell u a few things if u r not aware of

Are u in Pakistan these days for if you are you would know whats going on.

lemme remind you what Mushy and his team has done. read more about

PSM privatization

KSE crash

Sugar crisis

Cement crisis

Read these and you would know how loyal Mush, Aziz and their team have been to Pakistan

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Please read the following two statements by the same man and see for urself how contradictary they are. He is army's spokes man

Military spokesman Maj-Gen Shaukat Sultan told Dawn that the cave under whose rubble lay Nawab Bugti’s body had been custom-built, with heavily fortified bunkers and a lot of ammunition.

“The cave was about 100 feet long and had winding passages. There was at least one room in the cave with a ventilation opening. Since the Oct 26 military operation intensified after sundown, there is no question of firing rockets or missiles at the cave.

What probably happened was that when army men sought to enter the cave, they received heavy fire from inside.

They naturally returned fire and then something in the cave exploded. As a result, the cave collapsed, killing not only the servicemen at its mouth but also the inmates,” he said.

Maj-Gen Sultan said finding Nawab Bugti’s remains would be a long, torturous process because “there is no possibility of using heavy machinery like cranes or excavators”.

“There is no proper road to the cave. Army engineers are making manual efforts to dig the cave. The process will of necessity be time-consuming,” he said.

http://dawn.com/2006/08/29/top1.htm

And now this one

The Director General Inter-Services Public Relations Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan on Tuesday said that that the tribal leader died in a blast at a cave in Balochistan when army officials "rushed in" to "negotiate".

In his first comments to the media on the death of Bugti in a military operation at a mountain hideout on August 25, Pakistan's Defence Spokesman Shaukat Sultan said Bugti was first identified by an army guide inside the cave.

When army officials "rushed in" to "negotiate" with Bugti or "apprehend" him alive, an explosion took place leading to the cave's collapse, Sultan said.

"Those officers who went in probably went in for the purpose of talks and negotiations. But then the cave collapsed. Every effort been made to apprehend him alive. That was the purpose. Not to kill him. But then the cave collapsed and what caused the collapse is not known," he said.

He said Bugti's cave was noticed when para commandos combed the area after army helicopters came under fire in August 23 and 24. After noticing heavy gunfire from one of the many caves around, army sent a local guide who went in and came back with a confirmation that Akbar Bugti was inside.

"The guide, (who survived) has confirmed that the officers rushed in," Sultan said.

Dismissing allegations that Bugti was killed by the army as baseless and political propaganda by "wasted interests", he said "they were going inside the cave to hold talks and clear instructions were given to our (army) people... that they should apprehend the people and not kill. If they have killed in combat it is a different thing."

He said that it would take another four or five days to retrieve the body of Bugti from the rubble.

Sultan said it was not clear what caused the blast and denied that Bugti was the target of the strike.

Troops found two boxes in rubble which contained 100 million rupees (60 million dollars) and 96,000 dollars, some cheque books and a Thuraya satellite phone, Sultan said.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/updates.asp#8850

Now i would like to remind you of original story where it was said that army helicopters were fired at on 23rd and this operation was in response to firing

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The whole thing is getting confused as to who said what and what is what and what is happening to whom.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The Dawn, Daily Times, News etc are all fingers and thumbs as if the whole issue is an albatross around the neck.

It is time to move on. Que Sera Sera. Unfortunate, but one can't turn the clock back. The political parties are all mouth and trouser and all over the shop.

The painted Jezebels murky the already muddy waters with passing the buck being the name of the game.

The Vicar of Bray does however shines like a knight in shining armour.

Too many are getting their feathers in a bunch. Sad, however, that the issue has gone pear shaped!

 

[Muradk]

This has nothing to do with this topic but just to refresh ur memory and to tell u a few things if u r not aware of

Are u in Pakistan these days for if you are you would know whats going on.

lemme remind you what Mushy and his team has done. read more about

PSM privatization

KSE crash

Sugar crisis

Cement crisis

Read these and you would know how loyal Mush, Aziz and their team have been to Pakistan

Oh my God do just right without thinking or what .
who owns the sugar mills the cement factories , ok Lahori Sahib lets do this instead of me beating my head on a wall why dont you come up with an complete article that what has Mushy done to our country and what do you think is good but make sure you give us proof with your statements and I will do the same after you write your i will take your and counter it .
I am just getting tired of listen that mushy has done this he has done that , from your articles it is not difficult to tell which part you belong from we all know that by now so please tell us that what has your part has done for the country and what has army done to screw the country .
Lets just talk about it instead of every second day I see a new thread saying oh he is a bad man army is bad for the country.
Now I will wait for your complete article take as much time you want , I will start a thread ( IS ARMY is good or bad for PAKISTAN ) and we will put every thing in there. Do you except my challenge YES OR NO. I am waiting for an answere from you lahori Sahib.

 

[Cheetah786]

This has nothing to do with this topic but just to refresh ur memory and to tell u a few things if u r not aware of

Are u in Pakistan these days for if you are you would know whats going on.

lemme remind you what Mushy and his team has done. read more about

PSM privatization

KSE crash

Sugar crisis

Cement crisis

Read these and you would know how loyal Mush, Aziz and their team have been to Pakistan

hate to burst your bubble paa jee but iam a firm supporter of privitisation and i do belive private sector will provide better service then government second most governmanet workers are lazy and theives so u telling me that privite industry is bad and having crown corporation is a good idea.you are living in past .
KSE crash is government of pakistans fault HOW ?

PSM privatization HELLO THIS corporation has been losing money from day 1 .as most workers prefer to get paid but dont show up for work managers steal openly and contract out work to there friends .nawaz sherif robbed of its raw material should i go on

Sugar crisis

Cement crisis

again both of these have nothing to do with the government they were trying to cheat the public musshy responded cement and sugar prices have fallen.guess what would have happend if mr 10% was here yes prices would have kept on going up markup+10% Man paa jee you are running out of complains that u can actually put at musshy.
oh before i forget do u want me to tell ya how many of those sugar mills owners are politicians and we wont even go towards cement as investigate bud u will find the real culprit belonging to the party thats not in government

 

[Owais]

Akbar Bugti died in a cave collapse, not a target: Shaukat Sultan

Islamabad: The Director General Inter-Services Public Relations Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan on Tuesday said that that the tribal leader died in a blast at a cave in Balochistan when army officials "rushed in" to "negotiate".

In his first comments to the media on the death of Bugti in a military operation at a mountain hideout on August 25, Pakistan's Defence Spokesman Shaukat Sultan said Bugti was first identified by an army guide inside the cave.

When army officials "rushed in" to "negotiate" with Bugti or "apprehend" him alive, an explosion took place leading to the cave's collapse, Sultan said.

"Those officers who went in probably went in for the purpose of talks and negotiations. But then the cave collapsed. Every effort been made to apprehend him alive. That was the purpose. Not to kill him. But then the cave collapsed and what caused the collapse is not known," he said.

He said Bugti's cave was noticed when para commandos combed the area after army helicopters came under fire in August 23 and 24. After noticing heavy gunfire from one of the many caves around, army sent a local guide who went in and came back with a confirmation that Akbar Bugti was inside.

"The guide, (who survived) has confirmed that the officers rushed in," Sultan said.

Dismissing allegations that Bugti was killed by the army as baseless and political propaganda by "wasted interests", he said "they were going inside the cave to hold talks and clear instructions were given to our (army) people... that they should apprehend the people and not kill. If they have killed in combat it is a different thing."

He said that it would take another four or five days to retrieve the body of Bugti from the rubble.

Sultan said it was not clear what caused the blast and denied that Bugti was the target of the strike.

Troops found two boxes in rubble which contained 100 million rupees (60 million dollars) and 96,000 dollars, some cheque books and a Thuraya satellite phone, Sultan said.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

It is nice to see Athale on the PFF.

Did the Staff Course with me. The cerebral type. Done extensive touring around the world studying insurgencies.

There is no doubt that military action alone against guerillas will never bring home the bacon. It is just a mad as a badger sort of approach and will only queer the pitch. It is sailing under false colour.

A Political solution is the only way out, and the military can just take the issue to the woodshed. That would mean taking the eye off the ball.

 

[Srirangan]

Army's new theory on Bugti killing

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/beginning-of-musharrafs-troubles/20118-2.html

The Pakistan Army on Tuesday said it did not kill the popular Baluch leader, Nawab Akbar Bugti after anger and widespread protests across Baluchistan against the government and the army for killing him. Pakistan's defence spokesman Maj Gen Shaukat Sultan said Bugti was killed when a cave where he was hiding caved in.
"Bugti's death had been an outcome of the recent events which started on August 23 and ended on August 26," Maj Gen Sultan said.
Narrating the events leading to the tragic killing of Bugti, the Army spokesman said: "There was a firing on two helicopters from the area on August 23. There was one helicopter that was hit but it was able to land safely. Another helicopter was then sent to confirm what was there. That helicopter was also fired upon. This prompted the Forntier Corps to send troops on the ground and find out what was the reality."
"When the troops went to the grounds, they found about seven to eight caves, which were very strongly occupied. The insurgents put up a resistance when the troops moved in. The Frontier Corps suffered three casualties and then they were reinforced. On August 26, they started clearing the caves and finally when they reached this cave from where the fire was coming out, the fire was responded to," Maj Gen Sultan said.
He, however, denied that Bugti was killed in the Army firing.
"There were guides, who were from Bugti tribe. There were a few of them who were with the security forces. One was sent into the cave to find out who were the people inside. He was able to negotiate. When he came out and confirmed to the commander, the commander himself went in to carry out further negotiations. That was the time when the cave actually came down with a blast."
He said there was no clue as to what caused the blast. "It could have been a mine blast, it could have been the explosives that was there. The structure had in any case become weak because of the rocket firing over the past three days," he added.
Just love Pakistan: Mush
Pakistan President Parvez Musharraf visited the hill resort of Murree on Tuesday.
Addressing a gathering, he tried to soothe the Baloch sentiment outraged over the killing of Bugti. He promised financial help to the province. "Just love Pakistan," he urged the Balochis.
But that sentiment wasn't visible in Quetta. After a prayer service for Bugti, violence broke out.
His family demanded the patriarch's body to perform the final rites, but the government claimed that it was still in the cave where he was killed. The authorities promised to retrieve it. Bugti's son Talal, however, accused the government of lying.
"They have offered to provide us a helicopter to fly me to the mountains where Bugti sahib's body lies. This is an absolute lie. I doubt their intention. I think they are lying. Had I agreed to go in the helicopter, they would have transported the body in the meanwhile in another helicopter to Dehra Bugti, just like they did with Bhutto," Talal Bugti, son of Akbar Bugti, said:
Mush's days are numbered?
Balochis are convinced that the government wants to avoid a public funeral that could inflame sentiment even further. In fact, Pakistan's most famous ISI chief, Gen Hameed Gul, believes that Musharraf's troubles could be just beginning.
"On many counts, he (Musharraf) was isolated previously also. But with this event, I think now his troubles are going to increase. This is an increment to the problems that he was facing politically," says Gen Hameed Gul.
The killing could have its strongest impact on Baloch youth. Many may even join the insurgency adding fresh fuel to the Baloch fire.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

The comparison of Balochistan with Bangladesh maybe a trifle incongruous.

The reason is quite easy to fathom. East Pakistan was not contiguous to Pakistan (Main) and with that there were many governance and logistic problems and that led to the Administration and the military being on short fuse. This resulted in traumatic situations for the people of East Pakistan. Then Muji was not given his due even after winning the majority in the elections. And the rest is history.

In so far as Balochistan, it being contagious, the chances of frustration will be very marginal in comparison to East Pakistan. However, if indiscriminate military force is applied, then none can predict the outcome.

Sri,

Hameed Gul just does not like Musharraf since the latter has pushed into the dustbin of history. This has been a serious ego battering for Gul. Therefore, Gul goes hammer and tongs with anything that Musharraf does.

One need not take Gul too seriously.

 

[Lahori paa jee]

Oh my God do just right without thinking or what .
who owns the sugar mills the cement factories , ok Lahori Sahib lets do this instead of me beating my head on a wall why dont you come up with an complete article that what has Mushy done to our country and what do you think is good but make sure you give us proof with your statements and I will do the same after you write your i will take your and counter it .
I am just getting tired of listen that mushy has done this he has done that , from your articles it is not difficult to tell which part you belong from we all know that by now so please tell us that what has your part has done for the country and what has army done to screw the country .
Lets just talk about it instead of every second day I see a new thread saying oh he is a bad man army is bad for the country.
Now I will wait for your complete article take as much time you want , I will start a thread ( IS ARMY is good or bad for PAKISTAN ) and we will put every thing in there. Do you except my challenge YES OR NO. I am waiting for an answere from you lahori Sahib.

Accepted Brother. Lets get started

But when i give you the proof u should accept it and i will do the same

 

[Lahori paa jee]

hate to burst your bubble paa jee but iam a firm supporter of privitisation and i do belive private sector will provide better service then government second most governmanet workers are lazy and theives so u telling me that privite industry is bad and having crown corporation is a good idea.you are living in past .
KSE crash is government of pakistans fault HOW ?

PSM privatization HELLO THIS corporation has been losing money from day 1 .as most workers prefer to get paid but dont show up for work managers steal openly and contract out work to there friends .nawaz sherif robbed of its raw material should i go on

Sugar crisis

Cement crisis

again both of these have nothing to do with the government they were trying to cheat the public musshy responded cement and sugar prices have fallen.guess what would have happend if mr 10% was here yes prices would have kept on going up markup+10% Man paa jee you are running out of complains that u can actually put at musshy.
oh before i forget do u want me to tell ya how many of those sugar mills owners are politicians and we wont even go towards cement as investigate bud u will find the real culprit belonging to the party thats not in government

I will start separate threads on this governments corruption soon and all ur doubts will be cleared. You would come to know that truth.