Airpower Imbalance - Nuclear Pakistan's Achilles' Heel

[Tornado]

Pakistan spends almost 5 percent of its GDP on defense and is still unable to match the conventional forces of India, which outspends Pakistan 3 to 1 while allocating less than 2.5 percent of its GDP to military spendings.

 

[Patriot]

Yeah, that's because India is much bigger country and bigger GDP.We were hit hard by sanctions too which crippled our economy.I think we might be able to recover economy after 2010 if everything goes well.I blame Politicians and to some extent the military rulers.It's pretty obvious that if Pakistan lose in conventional war it will most definitely use nuclear weapons.I just hope there wont be any war between India and Pakistan (Nuclear Weapons will vaporize us!)

 

[AliFarooq]

Guys any 1 wanna help me out, with something how does air combat work if pakistan does not have any BVR's ?

 

[Tornado]

Well said Saad, Politicians are politicians after all, what matters for them is the amount in foreign banks at the end of the day, public inetraction and "common" peace has always been secondry.

 

[Patriot]

Guys any 1 wanna help me out, with something how does air combat work if pakistan does not have any BVR's ?

BVR Threat can be countered if pilot is good and have AWACS backup (Sir Murad can give you info about it..he is a pilot).

 

[AliFarooq]

BVR Threat can be countered if pilot is good and have AWACS backup (Sir Murad can give you info about it..he is a pilot).

Thanks, i kno the threat can be countered and our piolets are very skilled at that, my point was you can't be dogging BVRs all day, are there other types of AIr to Air missles that PAF has to destroy jets or they have to rely cannons?

I dnt wanna bother Sir Murad, he's a busy man.

 

[el nino]

To be Fair PAF will have a great BVR weapon with 18 f16/52 + 44 MLU to 44 of their F16.

66 BVR AMRAAM equipped F16 will double the fire power of PAF overnite. Add chinease Awacs and theres your first line of defense..

Your second line is 170 WVR F7PG with your sam systems which will provide the battle over your home land.

Thats useful deterrance but stil no way can PAF take air war to indian Skies. You don,t have the punch/ firepower in the PAF to be a offensive air force....

IAF is being built to be a offensive force multipler both in South Asia skies and the indian Ocean.

That means long range MRCA. refuling planes and AWACS.... ON IL76 LONG RANGE russian carriers.

People keep saying PAF training yet your pilots do not have any exposure to BVR combat,, refuelling over long range missions,, or training with western air forces. OR NOT TO SAME LEVEL HAS THEIR IAF counterparts

PAF doctrine until recently has been set in a 1970-80s time warp. ie WVR combat &homeland defence.

Only now is PAF awakening to BVR. AWACS and refellers playing catch up to IAF who have a much bigger $$$ budget to play with..

PAF was beter equipped and trained in my opinion in 65 & 71. prehaps even until the late 80s. But has your rel;ationship with usa cooled so did your technology and with it the modern training.

INDIA has had the edge in tech,, doctrine,, exposure to overseas training for at least 10 years...

YOU CAN SEE THIS IN THE EQUIPMENT that IAF has inducted or on order as we speak.

IAF training amd methods are not inferior in any way shape or form

 

[Patriot]

Thanks, i kno the threat can be countered and our piolets are very skilled at that, my point was you can't be dogging BVRs all day, are there other types of AIr to Air missles that PAF has to destroy jets or they have to rely cannons?

I dnt wanna bother Sir Murad, he's a busy man.

Yaar Pakistan Air Force use AIM9 Missile on F16 which is a very advanced WVR Missile which means it can be fired within visual range.F16 wont be hitting with guns All of our aircrafts are equipped with missiles (Within Visual Range Missles).AIM Series Missiles are also used by United States Air Force.
PAF will be going through major modernization program in next years.
New AWACS
Already received Air 2 Air Refuelers
F16 MLU Upgrade and Block 52 with BVR (All MLU will be BVR capable AFAIK)
J10 with BVR
JF-17 with BVR
so basically PAF is now going into another age and in next 10-15 years all jets will be BVR capable IMO.

 

[Patriot]

To be Fair PAF will have a great BVR weapon with 18 f16/52 + 44 MLU to 44 of their F16.

66 BVR AMRAAM equipped F16 will double the fire power of PAF overnite. Add chinease Awacs and theres your first line of defense..

Your second line is 170 WVR F7PG with your sam systems which will provide the battle over your home land.

Thats useful deterrance but stil no way can PAF take air war to indian Skies. You don,t have the punch/ firepower in the PAF to be a offensive air force....

IAF is being built to be a offensive force multipler both in South Asia skies and the indian Ocean.

That means long range MRCA. refuling planes and AWACS.... ON IL76 LONG RANGE russian carriers.

People keep saying PAF training yet your pilots do not have any exposure to BVR combat,, refuelling over long range missions,, or training with western air forces. OR NOT TO SAME LEVEL HAS THEIR IAF counterparts

PAF doctrine until recently has been set in a 1970-80s time warp. ie WVR combat &homeland defence.

Only now is PAF awakening to BVR. AWACS and refellers playing catch up to IAF who have a much bigger $$$ budget to play with..

PAF was beter equipped and trained in my opinion in 65 & 71. prehaps even until the late 80s. But has your rel;ationship with usa cooled so did your technology and with it the modern training.

INDIA has had the edge in tech,, doctrine,, exposure to overseas training for at least 10 years...

YOU CAN SEE THIS IN THE EQUIPMENT that IAF has inducted or on order as we speak.

IAF training amd methods are not inferior in any way shape or form

PAF has trained Saudi Royal Air Force and UAE Air Force pilots and both have very advanced planes (F15E Strike Eagle, Tornados and Eurofighter and Rafales in Future..)They also had exercises with Turkish Air Force, Royal Air Force and United States Air Force so i am pretty sure PAF will easily handle BVR capable Jets.

 

[el nino]

I did not question PAF ability to use BVR jets.

What i questioned was how can PAF pilots or its air force be better trained then IAF which has been inducting and using all force multiplers and better aircraft far longer than PAF...

iT DOES not make sense.

 

[AliFarooq]

Thank you, saad another question wts so good about BVR's??

 

[Patriot]

Thank you, saad another question wts so good about BVR's??

Yaar basically if you're equipped with Beyond Visual Range Missile then it can engage and hit enemy aircrafts at ranges beyond 20 nautical miles (37 km) so you can lock on your enemy and fire missile on him without actually seeing the enemy aircraft.Also it means you get first shot capability.

 

[Patriot]

I did not question PAF ability to use BVR jets.

What i questioned was how can PAF pilots or its air force be better trained then IAF which has been inducting and using all force multiplers and better aircraft far longer than PAF...

iT DOES not make sense.

Yaar there is no doubt that India also has some of the best pilots but PAF Pilots are equally matched....Now Look at Saudi Air Force..they have top of the line defense system, refuelers, AWACS, F15E, UAE WITH F16 60 Block and AESA Radar but our pilots are far better then UAE/SRAF Pilots.It all comes down to training.When we say we have better training it means although we don't have latest tech equipment our pilots can still match the IAF Pilots and some are even better then IAF Pilots.Anyway, i don't know much about this stuff if you want to read more about PAF then read Sir Muradk's posts.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

You're just making up scenario's... I'm sure all that can happen. At the end of the day, India realizes that it will come down to a nuclear war. Something that India cannot afford with its fragile economy. Every little bit of progress will be destroyed in a blink of an eye... India will be the biggest loser. This is the bitter reality. Besides, we're living in an era where Pakistan possesses ballistic and cruise missiles. This war will be totally different to previous wars. The air superiority advantage is just a small part of it all. India has a slight advantage. That's all...

In absolute terms India may lose more than Pakistan, although in relative terms Pakistan would lose more in a nuclear exchange. India's economy may be crippled and a lot of people killed, but it would survive to some extent while Pakistan as an organised state would be almost annihilated.

 

[Shiny Capstar]

IAF training amd methods are not inferior in any way shape or form

Unless you have had experience of both training methods then you are no authority on this matter.