Air Forces Monthly - summary of updates to JF-17

[arjunk]

1. ranges for either PL-15 or Meteor are never published officially. All the ranges quoted either 150/200/300 Km are fanboy created hype, fuelled by uncorroborated defence reports

2. Access to premium fighters like J10 or Rafale is not that easy. India has close military ties with Myanmar, and by that logic, IAF pilots can also demand joy rides in JF17
[/QUOTE
JF-17 simulator, like F-16 simulator, is public domain knowledge. The version (sim and jet) Myanmar has isn't the classified one Pakistan operates.

 

[SQ8]

2. Access to premium fighters like J10 or Rafale is not that easy. India has close military ties with Myanmar, and by that logic, IAF pilots can also demand joy rides in JF17

Lol, anything to get the answer you want to give yourself.
just download DCS - its much cheaper and easier to get a decent JF-17 Block-1.5 experience.

 

[GumNaam]

1. ranges for either PL-15 or Meteor are never published officially. All the ranges quoted either 150/200/300 Km are fanboy created hype, fuelled by uncorroborated defence reports

2. Access to premium fighters like J10 or Rafale is not that easy. India has close military ties with Myanmar, and by that logic, IAF pilots can also demand joy rides in JF17

these are the OEM provided respective data:

I don't speculate, I go off of the data provided by the original equipment manufacturer and as you can see, the PL15 out guns the meteor by nearly 50kms. whether the OEMs are hiding the true numbers or not is irrelevant at this point because it'll only lead to fan boy type speculations.

and myanmar doesn't have long running contracts with the indian air force for training, pilots and engineers while Qatar, ksA and uae do have such long running contracts with the PAF. 'nuf said.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I subscribed and have already read it. the article was probably written a couple of months earlier, but it mentions quite a few things that the fanboys have been wishing for, and then I found some inconsistencies too, probably on purpose to not give out the full details.

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View attachment 809997

 

[Saudang]

Here is an interesting tidbit - back in 2004 when the PAF was trying to get the M2k-5 and the French pushed the Rafale - the PAF team that was briefed on it was also briefed on the Meteor. At that time the JF-17 was being envisioned with the French avionics kit and the RC-400 radar coupled with Mica EMs initially. The French in trying to convince the PAF to spend excess billions which it didn’t have as India did eventually also suggested the RC-400 could interface with the meteor. So, while never as detailed as actual users the PAF knew about the Meteor and when MMRCA began was looking for contingencies.
The meteor as great of a missile it is was designed a decade before the PL-15 came in. More importantly, the Chinese are targeting the United States as their primary threat - you guys are just outgunned and outranged by them as happenstance. Pakistan deserves no “credit” for that.

Frankly, India has itself to blame for delays in getting a MMRCA. Be it any western aircraft India would have outsticked the PAF in larger numbers.

you are way off in the time line .. Full-scale development and production of Meteor began in 2003 with the signature of a £1.2 billion contract by the UK on behalf of France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Sweden and the UK. 2nd January, 2003 was the precise date, from when development of the missile started. But you are saying that French pitched a missile which was not even properly on the drawing board to PAF in 2004 ..

Metero was inducted into services in 2016, the same year PL 15 was inducted. Meteor has a ramjet engine vs a dua pulse solid fuel rocket for PL15. In all probability, Meteor would have more kinetic energy at the terminal phase than a solid fuel missile. Given the diameter of both the missile being same, probably both will have AESA radar with similar number of modules. There is no specific technology in PL15 to indicate that it can outgun a ramjet missile

 

[Rafael]

Unknown but they will both be fully connected to Pakistani Net centric system. So if a target is picked up by a Tughril class it will be able to pass that data over link-17 to either JF-17s or J-10s and vice versa. A massive integrated battle picture of air and surface(naval) targets will emerge for not just AHQ but the Air Defense HQ i Faisalabad and NHQ as well. It may be probable that even the land targets might be added on.

New AESA - but , it is possible it may be the optimum range and not the actual range of the AESA. People can buy and read to give their own interpretation.

When did that happen?

 

[Bilal.]

3. Range of PL-15 variant offerred to Pakistan exceeds range of JF-17 radar!

just read the article and couldn’t find this part. What I did find was the statement that the radar range exceeds any current or future BVRAAM to be inducted in the program. Can you please point to the page?

 

[Pak Nationalist]

just read the article and couldn’t find this part. What I did find was the statement that the radar range exceeds any current or future BVRAAM to be inducted in the program. Can you please point to the page?

:/?

 

[Bilal.]

Purported picture of Panjnad pod:

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

Good job. Everything else is the same. Except the vertical stabiliser, which seems to be moved backwards in Thunder B. ALSO WING AREA IS ALSO INCREASED IN JFT-B

defence.pk

 

[GriffinsRule]

What is also interesting is the following ... "With all Western options having been disregarded, the X-band KLJ-7A liquid-cooled, airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) became the system of choice for the Block III JF-17." The article then goes on to contradict itself by saying that it looks like KLJ-7A AESA radar will be an air-cooled system ... I think the latter is accurate as we have discussed on the forum extensively already.

The the article states that the radar range exceeds A-A missiles, not the other way around @SQ8. It states "As is already known, the modes of any AESA radar vary in operation from the predecessor Pulse-Doppler system in all roles. Among many others, one such feature is the ‘interleaf’ mode – where both airborne and surface targets are tracked at the same time, due to its inherent enhanced architecture. It is also known that the radar range exceeds any present or future BVRAAM to be inducted in the programme." Meaning it can very well guide PL-15 to its max range.

Also, JF-17 BIII HUD will be used in J-10C as well as J-20A (replacing their existing HUDs)

Finally on the engines, as mentioned before many times, the RD-93 is here to stay. "...the JF-17 Block III programme managers are deeply interested in the upgraded, DEEC-enabled RD-93MA – which provides more than 20,000lbf (wet) – probably because of the already established supply chain." I would add here that it is not the additional thrust, that will be beneficial regardless, but the DEEC pr Digital Electronic Engine Control which relates to better engine serviceability and aids in its maintenance as well. Read the following link for more generic info.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/89225main_TF-2004-03-DFRC.pdf

Lastly, "The project is still looking for a suitable infrared search-and-track (IRST) system, because it is not built in to the airframe. Some potential JF-17 operators want it to be integrated into the airframe and not mounted on an external station, as the Thunder's heat signature hinders its performance." Official decision yet to be made on carrying it on centerline or not.

 

[Bilal.]

What is also interesting is the following ... "With all Western options having been disregarded, the X-band KLJ-7A liquid-cooled, airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) became the system of choice for the Block III JF-17." The article then goes on to contradict itself by saying that it looks like KLJ-7A AESA radar will be an air-cooled system ... I think the latter is accurate as we have discussed on the forum extensively already.

The the article states that the radar range exceeds A-A missiles, not the other way around @SQ8. It states "As is already known, the modes of any AESA radar vary in operation from the predecessor Pulse-Doppler system in all roles. Among many others, one such feature is the ‘interleaf’ mode – where both airborne and surface targets are tracked at the same time, due to its inherent enhanced architecture. It is also known that the radar range exceeds any present or future BVRAAM to be inducted in the programme." Meaning it can very well guide PL-15 to its max range.

Also, JF-17 BIII HUD will be used in J-10C as well as J-20A (replacing their existing HUDs)

Finally on the engines, as mentioned before many times, the RD-93 is here to stay. "...the JF-17 Block III programme managers are deeply interested in the upgraded, DEEC-enabled RD-93MA – which provides more than 20,000lbf (wet) – probably because of the already established supply chain."

Lastly, "The project is still looking for a suitable infrared search-and-track (IRST) system, because it is not built in to the airframe. Some potential JF-17 operators want it to be integrated into the airframe and not mounted on an external station, as the Thunder's heat signature hinders its performance." Official decision yet to be made on carrying it on centerline or not.

What is also interesting and if my interpretation is correct the production radar has 65% more range than the prototype (81NM) giving a range of almost 134NM or 250km for a 5sq m target! It’s a beast!

Also I didn’t find the air cooled part. Can you point out the page?

 

[RangeMaster]

What is also interesting is the following ... "With all Western options having been disregarded, the X-band KLJ-7A liquid-cooled, airborne AESA Fire Control Radar (FCR) became the system of choice for the Block III JF-17." The article then goes on to contradict itself by saying that it looks like KLJ-7A AESA radar will be an air-cooled system ... I think the latter is accurate as we have discussed on the forum extensively already.

The the article states that the radar range exceeds A-A missiles, not the other way around @SQ8. It states "As is already known, the modes of any AESA radar vary in operation from the predecessor Pulse-Doppler system in all roles. Among many others, one such feature is the ‘interleaf’ mode – where both airborne and surface targets are tracked at the same time, due to its inherent enhanced architecture. It is also known that the radar range exceeds any present or future BVRAAM to be inducted in the programme." Meaning it can very well guide PL-15 to its max range.

Also, JF-17 BIII HUD will be used in J-10C as well as J-20A (replacing their existing HUDs)

Finally on the engines, as mentioned before many times, the RD-93 is here to stay. "...the JF-17 Block III programme managers are deeply interested in the upgraded, DEEC-enabled RD-93MA – which provides more than 20,000lbf (wet) – probably because of the already established supply chain." I would add here that it is not the additional thrust, that will be beneficial regardless, but the DEEC pr Digital Electronic Engine Control which relates to better engine serviceability and aids in its maintenance as well. Read the following link for more generic info.

https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/89225main_TF-2004-03-DFRC.pdf

Lastly, "The project is still looking for a suitable infrared search-and-track (IRST) system, because it is not built in to the airframe. Some potential JF-17 operators want it to be integrated into the airframe and not mounted on an external station, as the Thunder's heat signature hinders its performance." Official decision yet to be made on carrying it on centerline or not.

It was air cooled according to previous statements and brochures. Liquid cooled means more TRMs and more powerful radar right..?

 

[Riz]

Purported picture of Panjnad pod:

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

Good job. Everything else is the same. Except the vertical stabiliser, which seems to be moved backwards in Thunder B. ALSO WING AREA IS ALSO INCREASED IN JFT-B

defence.pk

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

Good job. Everything else is the same. Except the vertical stabiliser, which seems to be moved backwards in Thunder B. ALSO WING AREA IS ALSO INCREASED IN JFT-B

defence.pk

Credit goes to @Tipu7

 

[GriffinsRule]

What is also interesting and if my interpretation is correct the production radar has 65% more range than the prototype (81NM) giving a range of almost 134NM or 250km for a 5sq m target! It’s a beast!

Also I didn’t find the air cooled part. Can you point out the page?

It's a caption in the image of one jet under construction.

 

[Goritoes]

No one is going to talk about Ra'ad integration on JF-17 ? I mean seriously ? Ra'ad is a bloody ALCM with conventional and nuclear warhead, give it some respect.