Air Force Question Thread

[Tempest II]

Muradk,

Thanks for answering my question. I was hoping you will and nearly addressed the question directly to you. I grew up in Zimbabwe during the days of apartheid South Africa and hated the regime with a passion. Was prepared to join the freedom movements there and fight.

As you know, to set up our air force, we received a lot of help from Pakistan – in fact, I was in class with one of the instructor’s daughters in the late 80s at school. Even now, we have PAF instructors who were recruited not more than two years ago. To me, that says Zimbabwe is getting ready for the FC-1.

I was thinking and the scenario between South Africa and Zimbabwe. South Africa had the Mirage IIIs (before the upgraded Cheetah modifications) and Zimbabwe, with instruction, guidance and advice from PAF bought the F-7s. It the clicked to me that PAF operated the Mirages as well … … the light then came on, ! I would even dare venture to say while Zimbabwe was selecting an interceptor, Pakistan would have afforded them some detailed performance information on the Mirages IIIs.

 

[Munir]

Israeli were just lucky they got to fight with pilots who had no combat experience. Why was it that when ever a Pakistani pilot took off they got clean kills. Everyone of us. I will not go into details if PAF hasn't released any info who am I to open the box. My point was simple when ever we went 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2 , 3 vs 3 we won and without any fancy moves.

Murad,

Most realistic and ood reply sofar. About the Israeli... Winning the war starts with derading the opponent and making own forces look like hero's and saints. I never believed the superiority of Israelis was based on facts. The Americans and jews just copied Goebels ideas. You know, the one that turned millionbs into jew haters. Now they just copied Nazi ideas like concentration camps (westbank, Gaza) and mass manipulation...

I did hate the fact that arabs are not able to handle a badic level. Arabs even run towards Israel to sell their plane and soul... You can never win a war with soldiers like arabs.

 

[sajidkhan]

hey which fighter jet in our force will counter the indian sukhois?? n can u plz give me the list of current fighter jets in our air force! thnx in advance.

 

[araz]

OUT OF 18 IN TOTAL . ARE THEY FITTED WITH AIM 120 BVR

Mr Lahori
Could you please stop opening threads with one liners and questions. It clogs the forum and is a waste of band width. Please ask any questions that you have in the PAF Q+A section. Believe me , there is one.
WaSalam
Araz

 

[Sunny4pak]

Assalam-o-Alaikum
Sir MuradK what are your views if we compare JF 17 and LCA ........?
I mean what ur experience say about these aircrafts.....
Regards,
Sunny

 

[Munir]

I think a delta at high altitude and hih speed is a danger. But sofar there are no teeths for the delta. JF17 is more for low and agility in mind with 2-4 BVR and 2 WVR. Knowing that Pak will sooner or later get decent high altitude cover and (FC20) we can say that JF17 will do its job as expected.

 

[Manticore]

hey which fighter jet in our force will counter the indian sukhois?? n can u plz give me the list of current fighter jets in our air force! thnx in advance.

the f16s [block15 after mlu=block50]with awacs support will counter the su30 untill f16 block50 and j10s arrive.. apart from that, we have f7, mirage 3/5 with rose upgrades, a5 ground attack jets... a squadron is in the evaluation and subsequent induction phase of jf17, which would eventually take over the roles of mirages, f7 and a5
aim120c5 and sd10[pl12] bvr missiles are going to be inducted, perhaps even mica... ra'ad might be our awacs killer if we dont get ft2000
just type paf wikipedia and youll get the info..
detailed , specific info can be found here on this forum

 

[pshamim]

Biggest drawback our F-16 had was their inability to operate at night. While we will not have that problem with the Blk-50, the night capability is also being added during the MLU.

Our anti state elements were aware of this shortcoming and consistently took advantage by moving around at night while hising during the day. They will not have this luxary any more.

 

[qsaark]

Biggest drawback our F-16 had was their inability to operate at night. While we will not have that problem with the Blk-50, the night capability is also being added during the MLU.

Our anti state elements were aware of this shortcoming and consistently took advantage by moving around at night while hising during the day. They will not have this luxary any more.

I am little confused here. You are saying that our F-16 were not capable of night operation. Following are the excerpts from Air Commodore (Retd) Shahid Kamal Khan's assay "Early Warning - The Phalcon “Phallacy”".

"Join me at Thirty Thousand Feet. In pitch black darkness, in a jewel studded night sky over the North West Frontier Province at CAP Station Alpha. In an F-16 cockpit twiddling knobs, pressing buttons, listening to the ALR-69 Radar Warning Receiver, selecting threat libraries, identifying blips, monitoring radio transmissions and performing a host of other complex tasks. Working the APG-66 radar, varying tilt angles, scan modes, zooming in to targets, locking, unlocking, zooming out to distant targets, trying to identify, sort and prioritize the threat posed by each one of the blips that appear on the airborne radar display screen.

This is a particularly busy night. Some major ground action is underway, fully supported by air power. The small, square radar screen between my knees is lit up like the proverbial Christmas tree with multiple targets at various ranges, different altitudes and differing speeds. Those six slow moving blips flying low, close to the ground are obviously night attack helicopters probably targeting some Mujahideen ground concentrations. The four faster, higher targets conclusively identified as specialized ground attack aircraft in a weapon delivery pattern, dropping flares, lighting up the area for both the helicopters and themselves as they pound the earth below. Another set of four blips further back, patrolling at fifteen thousand feet. Obviously fighters, judging by their speed and other parameters that the on-board systems have analyzed. Parked high above and beyond the ground combat zone, these lethal machines providing cover and the wherewithal to assist the ponderous, heavily laden, less manoeuvrable ground attack aircraft in case they are attacked. And the lone blip, well in the distance, lumbering across the sky in a defined orbit. The Airborne Command Centre from where this major ground assault, fully supported by air assets is most probably being orchestrated. Watching me watching them. More blips dotted across the screen. Aircraft transiting back to base, having done their bit and soon, another set of blips indicating the arrival of replacements.

At CAP Station Alpha we are able to look deep inside Afghanistan while remaining safely inside our borders. Powerful sensors on board the F-16 provide us this very sobering vision. Our task is to watch and ensure that the action does not drift into our airspace. Airborne early warning packing a lethal punch.

The eastern sky starts to light up in an amazing kaleidoscope of colour, hues and radiating shafts of brilliance. Dawn comes early at this altitude. Down below, still in darkness, my replacements are preparing to come up, take over from me and continue the vigil as the new day approaches. A pair of day interceptors are getting ready to take off as soon as the day breaks at ground level. Fast, nimble, lightweight and lethal but without the radar and the other electronics that the F-16 carries. The replacements are machines optimized for clear weather, daytime combat. piloted by bright, talented. hawkeyed pilots who work closely with ground based radars and use their sharp visual acquisition skills to pick up threats in the sky. Pilots trained and skilled in “burn and turn” tactics, excelling in fighting Within Visual Range.

Soon their voices come crackling across on the radio. Sharp, fresh, confident, mutually supportive calls confirming to each other “tails clear”, a term designed to confirm the absence of any threat in their cone of vulnerability.

Here am I in my modern cockpit surrounded with technology providing me with a fairly sobering picture of what lies out there, and there they are, completely oblivious of the threat. This is not as foolhardy as it sounds; the combat ready pair is fully capable of taking on any hostile aircraft that enters its zone of lethality. They sing a different song, they dance to a different tune. They know their tactics well. Tactics based on forcing the enemy to come within their visual range if he is to hurt them. Tactics based on long range visual acquisition of anything airborne. Tactics that ensure that once an enemy is sighted, he is outmanoeuvred and overwhelmed. Brilliant, gut wrenching tactics. These pilots do not see what lies beyond their considerable visual acquisition range. Frankly, they couldn't care less. A lethal punch with negligible early warning.

Source: http://www.pakdef.info/forum/showthread.php?t=4992

I will be thankful to you if you clear up this confusion.

 

[pshamim]

I am little confused here. You are saying that our F-16 were not capable of night operation. Following are the excerpts from Air Commodore (Retd) Shahid Kamal Khan's assay "Early Warning - The Phalcon “Phallacy”".

"Join me at Thirty Thousand Feet. Working the APG-66 radar, varying tilt angles, scan modes, zooming in to targets, locking, unlocking, zooming out to distant targets, trying to identify, sort and prioritize the threat posed by each one of the blips that appear on the airborne radar display screen. The eastern sky starts to light up in an amazing kaleidoscope of colour, hues and radiating shafts of brilliance. Dawn comes early at this altitude. Down below, still in darkness, my replacements are preparing to come up, take over from me and continue the vigil as the new day approaches. A pair of day interceptors are getting ready to take off as soon as the day breaks at ground level. Fast, nimble, lightweight and lethal but without the radar and the other electronics that the F-16 carries. The replacements are machines optimized for clear weather, daytime combat. piloted by bright, talented. hawkeyed pilots who work closely with ground based radars and use their sharp visual acquisition skills to pick up threats in the sky. Pilots trained and skilled in “burn and turn” tactics, excelling in fighting Within Visual Range.

Soon their voices come crackling across on the radio. Sharp, fresh, confident, mutually supportive calls confirming to each other “tails clear”, a term designed to confirm the absence of any threat in their cone of vulnerability.

Tactics based on long range visual acquisition of anything airborne. Tactics that ensure that once an enemy is sighted, he is outmanoeuvred and overwhelmed. Brilliant, gut wrenching tactics. These pilots do not see what lies beyond their considerable visual acquisition range. Frankly, they couldn't care less. A lethal punch with negligible early warning.

Source: Early Warning - The Phalcon “Phallacy” - PakDef Forums

I will be thankful to you if you clear up this confusion.

Read the first para again. It talks about the APG-66 being used. Correct! it could scan every thing which would reflect on the radar screen. But you have no visual. How do you track people. They cannot be scanned. Ground is dark and nothing is visible. This shortcoming is being taken care of now.

 

[qsaark]

Read the first para again. It talks about the APG-66 being used. Correct! it could scan every thing which would reflect on the radar screen. But you have no visual. How do you track people. They cannot be scanned. Ground is dark and nothing is visible. This shortcoming is being taken care of now.

Got it. Thanks.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Our early F-16A/Bs could operate at night very well but for air to air missions. The problem, generally believed, was that they were not able to conduct proper night ground-attack missions.

An airborne radar has both air to air and A2G modes but it may be that those Ground-Mapping or Moving-Target Indication (MTI) or Synethic Aperture Radar (SAR) modes were not available with those early APG-66 radar sets.

But for precision strikes, in addition to A2G radar modes, you also need targeting+navigation pods that can work at night too like the LANTRIN pods.

Was the LANTRIN available to PAF F-16s in 1990s or not is a matter sometimes debated.

 

[Munir]

I think it can be explained simpler... You do get ground picture but not enough detail and certainly not fast enough to control your actions. I have seen older scans of F16 and surely you do see islands but hardly comparable what you would see during daytime. And it takes a lot more computing and scanning power to look for object you probably want to hit. Even IR binoculars are restricting your vision cause they have kind of tunnelvision and make everything that is far away look like it is very close. Maybe it works fine in Europe where there is a lot of artificial light during night. It is a whole other setting if you fly near the Afghan border hoping to hit a few man...

 

[Muradk]

A smart pilot is who knows the potential of his fighter. JF-17 vs LCA is quite an interesting match under 20,000ft Thunder will take a few sec to get it in its sights, What I have seen the LCA during display in India was at 1000ft and could not keep the plane straight, I mean the nose was alway pointed upwards atleast 20 degrees up wards, 2 things either the engine is low powered or the design is fuc---up.
Thunder pulls 9 gs at 320 knots without FB and the Falcon has to do the same with full after burners.

 

[lahori]

do PAf have Aim 7 sparrow . if yes on which aircrafts it is used.what is its range.