Air Force Question Thread

[zombie:-)]

@ zombie
arsalanaslam also said JF-17 is better then LCA, reference is here,
http://www.defence.pk/forums/308956-post227.html


I will thank u if u are with with arsalan!!

i am not here for putting the most thanks on board

but as i said in another post i think it is not WISE to compare them just as yet first they are not built to compete and next they have to be operational and i think it wil be better if we compare mk2 versions of the plane because by then both platforms will be mature enough

 

[hj786]

now you can THANK me too Mr.hj786
here is the reference

Make a decent post first Mr Clown.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Helmet Color/Paint

In the following picture, the F-7s have been given camouflage paint but the white helmets of pilots are destroying the whole camouflage.

5 - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Also in the following shot, most pilots are being seen with white helmets.

F7-MG - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Would not it be better that the helmet color match the aircraft paint? At least the helmets of each squadron can be given a specific color that matches the color/paint of the squadron aircrafts.

 

[All-Green]

Helmet Color/Paint

In the following picture, the F-7s have been given camouflage paint but the white helmets of pilots are destroying the whole camouflage.

5 - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Also in the following shot, most pilots are being seen with white helmets.

F7-MG - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Would not it be better that the helmet color match the aircraft paint? At least the helmets of each squadron can be given a specific color that matches the color/paint of the squadron aircrafts.

Salaams

Interesting question.

In my mind one of the reasons it may not be done is due to the relative size of the helmet versus the size of the whole aircraft and the speed of the aircraft.
With these factors combined the helmet color would not really make much of a visual impact compared to overall color scheme of the aircraft.
The camouflage is only effective from a distance and at that distance the helmet will not stand out.

In the snapshots even the PAF roundel is comparable/bigger than the helmet size.

My 2 cents.

 

[duhastmish]

 

[x_man]

Helmet Color/Paint

In the following picture, the F-7s have been given camouflage paint but the white helmets of pilots are destroying the whole camouflage.

5 - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Also in the following shot, most pilots are being seen with white helmets.

F7-MG - Pakistan Defence Gallery

Would not it be better that the helmet color match the aircraft paint? At least the helmets of each squadron can be given a specific color that matches the color/paint of the squadron aircrafts.

Shehbazi this is a very old pic of FT-7s..PAF doesn’t use brown camo on F-7 anymore (its all grey now). As far as the helmet’s colour is concerned, it really doesn’t matter as they aren’t visible from farther distance and high speeds. Please note that the pic has been taken from only10 feet and zero relative speed, so therefore the helmets are standing out which otherwise don’t.

Since late 50s to date, PAF has been using the white helmets and they never became an issue as far as camouflage is concerned. In late 80s, PAF also started to use the Grey helmets which can be seen in abundance in airforce. Its upto the personal preference of pilot that which helmet he/she wants to fly with.

Having flown with both the helmets , I always preferred the Grey one because its lighter in weight, comes with a chic helmet bag, the padding inside the helmet fits much better than the white one and looks better than the white ( in my own opinion)..

P.S: Duhastmish, what’s the relevance of these F-18 pictures with this thread??? Please don’t turn this into another international aircraft picture frenzy thread, until and unless you have some specific query to some particular picture…

 

[MaXimMaRz]

i am not here for putting the most thanks on board

but as i said in another post i think it is not WISE to compare them just as yet first they are not built to compete and next they have to be operational and i think it wil be better if we compare mk2 versions of the plane because by then both platforms will be mature enough

Anything operating in the same medium can be compared , LCA and Thunder have almost the same max Gs and roll rate , thunder theoretically will have better T/W ratio...it all comes down to their AI and thw weapon on board...!

 

[shehbazi2001]

Shehbazi this is a very old pic of FT-7s..PAF doesn’t use brown camo on F-7 anymore (its all grey now). As far as the helmet’s colour is concerned, it really doesn’t matter as they aren’t visible from farther distance and high speeds. Please note that the pic has been taken from only10 feet and zero relative speed, so therefore the helmets are standing out which otherwise don’t.

Since late 50s to date, PAF has been using the white helmets and they never became an issue as far as camouflage is concerned. In late 80s, PAF also started to use the Grey helmets which can be seen in abundance in airforce. Its upto the personal preference of pilot that which helmet he/she wants to fly with.

Having flown with both the helmets , I always preferred the Grey one because its lighter in weight, comes with a chic helmet bag, the padding inside the helmet fits much better than the white one and looks better than the white ( in my own opinion)..

Thanks X_man for the update. Grey helmets shall surely improve the visual camouflage. I know that in a modern battlefield, a white helmet does not matter much as compared to AEWs,various radars and IRSTs. But as we still use camouflage paint in the presence of all these detection technologies, then I thought that white helmet spoils that camouflage.

The disadvantage that I had in mind was during close air combat,where relative speeds would be low as you quoted. An interceptor flying high and trying to locate a ground-hugging aircraft may be just looking for any clue and white helmet may prove to be that clue.

In March 2009 issue of Air Forces Monthly, I read an article on the Serb ground attack aircraft called "ORAO". Orao pilots sometimes managed to escape detection even by NATO AWACS by taking terrain cover. It means that look-down radar can be defeated in certain cases. Next comes the human eye and to escape human visual detection, camouflage is still in use.

 

[MaXimMaRz]

Thanks X_man for the update. Grey helmets shall surely improve the visual camouflage. I know that in a modern battlefield, a white helmet does not matter much as compared to AEWs,various radars and IRSTs. But as we still use camouflage paint in the presence of all these detection technologies, then I thought that white helmet spoils that camouflage.

The disadvantage that I had in mind was during close air combat,where relative speeds would be low as you quoted. An interceptor flying high and trying to locate a ground-hugging aircraft may be just looking for any clue and white helmet may prove to be that clue.

In March 2009 issue of Air Forces Monthly, I read an article on the Serb ground attack aircraft called "ORAO". Orao pilots sometimes managed to escape detection even by NATO AWACS by taking terrain cover. It means that look-down radar can be defeated in certain cases. Next comes the human eye and to escape human visual detection, camouflage is still in use.

Sun can play a big role in Any combat in visual ranges. Any one against the sun will shine, specially those A/C having Air superiority Grey color. Its a proven fact ! and if a guy can locate a helmet in the heat of the moment i am sure he will be able to locate the HUGE plane under or around it !!!

 

[zombie:-)]

Anything operating in the same medium can be compared , LCA and Thunder have almost the same max Gs and roll rate , thunder theoretically will have better T/W ratio...it all comes down to their AI and thw weapon on board...!

i never said THEY SHOULD NOT BE COMPARED PLEASE GO THROUGH MY POST CAREFULLY

i think it is not WISE to compare them just as yet

 

[PAFAce]

With all the acquisitions the PAF has made / is making, don't you guys think that a recruitment thrust is imminent? the PAF will need pilots, engineers, technicians, administrators, operators etc. to operate the new systems (AEWACS, fighters, Air Defence Systems, Radars etc.) When can we expect this recruitment thrust to occur?

I believe that many posters here would be wondering the same, seeing that many want to become a part of the Air Force. I certainly wouldn't mind trying enrolling for a GD(P) Graduate Course (which they are not running currently, unfortuntely).

 

[mean_bird]

With all the acquisitions the PAF has made / is making, don't you guys think that a recruitment thrust is imminent? the PAF will need pilots, engineers, technicians, administrators, operators etc. to operate the new systems (AEWACS, fighters, Air Defence Systems, Radars etc.) When can we expect this recruitment thrust to occur?

I believe that many posters here would be wondering the same, seeing that many want to become a part of the Air Force. I certainly wouldn't mind trying enrolling for a GD(P) Graduate Course (which they are not running currently, unfortuntely).

The project Manager of the JF-17 had said that it will create some 5000 jobs here, and I believe I also saw some ads about the recruitment few months ago.

 

[araz]

The project Manager of the JF-17 had said that it will create some 5000 jobs here, and I believe I also saw some ads about the recruitment few months ago.

My understanding was that the K8 manufacturing line had been stopped and in its place Thunder would be assembled. That alone would not have required any additional manpower. However, if along with that we have (Surely) acquired newer technologies , the infrastructural setup would require new recruitment. However, Kamra must look at hte situation carefully and acquire manpower as required, otherwise it will become non viable in the long run once work dries up.
Araz

 

[mean_bird]

My understanding was that the K8 manufacturing line had been stopped and in its place Thunder would be assembled. That alone would not have required any additional manpower. However, if along with that we have (Surely) acquired newer technologies , the infrastructural setup would require new recruitment. However, Kamra must look at hte situation carefully and acquire manpower as required, otherwise it will become non viable in the long run once work dries up.
Araz

Please correct me if I am wrong here... Pakistan only manufacture few parts (including front fuselage) of K8, which is then sent to china. We do not have a K-8 assembly line in pakistan.

Also I read in a newspaper that China State engineering company was awarded the contract to build the infrastructure in pakistan and with some major machinery imported from sweden ( IIRC). I don't think the K-8 facility, or its current strength will be able to handle the JF-17. In addition to that, if PAC intends to manufacture 30 aircrafts per year, I am sure a lot of jobs will be create.

In the long run, this facility will also act as a rebuild factory and for possible export orders.

Please feel free to correct me if I missed something.

 

[hassan1]

which uav is this