Air collision at South China Sea 2001, pictures!

[Akasa]

The bell that should have rung is the one that showed you the complete inapplicability of this 'example'. The situations are completely different.

Do some research first before saying who needs better examples. The USS Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters at the time it shot down the airliner. The USS Impeccable, like the EP-3, came dangerously close within Chinese territorial waters before being "intercepted". Iran Air 655 was also an accident that happened because of the intruder entering another country's sovereign waters.

Yes. He had no authorization from higher leadership.

He had radio contact with the ground all the time. Those two J-8s didn't simply take off because two guys wanted some Maverick experience.

Never claimed to be.

Air Force components all belong in one big family that work in cooperation to carry out a mission.

The question is why did Wang Wei collided with the much larger aircraft? The ridiculous defense/argument is that he was trying to 'defend' China. Defend against what threat? And if there was a legitimate cause for 'defense', then why a collision? Why not a weapons shot? But since he was not authorized 'weapons free', that made his flying so close to the much larger aircraft foolish and possibly incompetent because he did not know of the wake turbulence larger aircrafts can create.

He was defending against the threat of American spy aircraft flying close to the Hainan submarine base. If Chinese Y-8 spy aircraft flew within 70 miles of Norfolk, Virgina, I have no doubt pilots will be scrambling. There is no "legitimate cause" related to the collision because the collision was an accident (search up "accident" if you don't still understand).

Canadian CF-18s fly alongside Tu-95s during interception all the time. Did they ever fire any weapons?

The American aircraft was already outside of China's territorial airspace.

Anything outside 70 miles from US coast is also "international airspace" but they still shoot down anything that comes within 200 miles. The EP-3 also happens to be a spyplane heading in the direction of Hainan submarine base. If you are smart enough to register the presence of a spyplane heading towards Chinese territory and a nearby submarine base, perhaps you would come to the conclusion that somehow these two are related?

Ridiculous...The Gulf Wars were legitimate combat actions. Wang Wei's flying were under peace time between two powers.

Alright, so if you claim that these were "legitimate" flying by the EP-3, then the J-8 flight was also legitimate since they were both in "international airspace".

Conflict always sprouts from peace time, in case you haven't noticed. That's why "conflict" and "peace" are two different words.

And there are foolish pilots. Accept that.

Try correctly defining one before talking about acceptance.

 

[Akasa]

you are trying to explain it logically to a country/men that was recently busted using Top Gun movie clips to pass it as its supposed great air force.

This supposed great air force happen to possess technology (which only 3 countries have) that your mighty air force won't have until 2025.

Enough said.

 

[gambit]

Do some research first before saying who needs better examples. The USS Vincennes was in Iranian territorial waters at the time it shot down the airliner. The USS Impeccable, like the EP-3, came dangerously close within Chinese territorial waters before being "intercepted". Iran Air 655 was also an accident that happened because of the intruder entering another country's sovereign waters.

Do some thinking before you talk. This is not about interceptions but about the type of flying Wang Wei did that created the collision.

He had radio contact with the ground all the time. Those two J-8s didn't simply take off because two guys wanted some Maverick experience.

That does not mean Wang Wei had authorization for any actions other than to intercept, monitor, and escort. If the American recon aircraft does anything else, he still had to request permission from ground authority to do anything.

Air Force components all belong in one big family that work in cooperation to carry out a mission.

Tell me something I do not know, conscript reject.

He was defending against the threat of American spy aircraft flying close to the Hainan submarine base. If Chinese Y-8 spy aircraft flew within 70 miles of Norfolk, Virgina, I have no doubt pilots will be scrambling. There is no "legitimate cause" related to the collision because the collision was an accident (search up "accident" if you don't still understand).

What 'threat' was that? Electromagnetic Emissions (EM) interceptions do not 'threaten' anyone or anything.

Canadian CF-18s fly alongside Tu-95s during interception all the time. Did they ever fire any weapons?

And were they reckless in their flying like Wang Wei was?

Anything outside 70 miles from US coast is also "international airspace" but they still shoot down anything that comes within 200 miles. The EP-3 also happens to be a spyplane heading in the direction of Hainan submarine base. If you are smart enough to register the presence of a spyplane heading towards Chinese territory and a nearby submarine base, perhaps you would come to the conclusion that somehow these two are related?

Show us one example of such.

Alright, so if you claim that these were "legitimate" flying by the EP-3, then the J-8 flight was also legitimate since they were both in "international airspace".

Nowhere did I say the interception was 'illegal' or 'illegitimate'. I said Wang Wei's flying was reckless and foolish. Do you have a reading comprehension problem or are you doing this deliberately to distract from the real issue?

 

[pluto]

There were no doubts on what the US was there for, which was to conduct combat operations. If you wish to discuss the legitimacy of the Gulf Wars themselves, resurrect a previous discussion to do so. But the recon flight was during peacetime and outside of China's territorial airspace, therefore that flight was legitimate. Guess it is too difficult for you to grasp the differences.

one day, we'll say no even if you are 500 miles away from china's territory. because power speaks.

 

[xhw1986]

Payback of the 1999 embassy bombing!!!

 

[SQ8]

Interesting.. whatever wangwei's intensions were..it landed the chinese a study piece..
In retrospect.. the life was invaluable.. but losing a relatively cheap J-8.. for a million dollar gadget stuffed plane was a good catch.

The Iranian airbus incident.. where the "state of the art" AEGIS equipped ship could not tell the difference between a 90 ton lumbering airliner.. and a 25 ton fighter in flight.. heck.. all the tech could not tell if the jet was climbing to cruise altitude like a normal airliner.. or a fighter diving to low level for an attack.
Or simply .. it was a case of a gung ho reckless captain deciding to go john wayne on anything coming out of Iran.

 

[gambit]

Interesting.. whatever wangwei's intensions were..it landed the chinese a study piece..
In retrospect.. the life was invaluable.. but losing a relatively cheap J-8.. for a million dollar gadget stuffed plane was a good catch.

The Iranian airbus incident.. where the "state of the art" AEGIS equipped ship could not tell the difference between a 90 ton lumbering airliner.. and a 25 ton fighter in flight.. heck.. all the tech could not tell if the jet was climbing to cruise altitude like a normal airliner.. or a fighter diving to low level for an attack.
Or simply .. it was a case of a gung ho reckless captain deciding to go john wayne on anything coming out of Iran.

From a technical perspective, me and my friends really hate those words. They implied capabilities far greater than the manufacturer claim. They give the public nothing but unintended illusions of what their tax monies bought. And quite often our pitchmen are guilty of giving the public that impression.

 

[applesauce]

Interesting.. whatever wangwei's intensions were..it landed the chinese a study piece..
In retrospect.. the life was invaluable.. but losing a relatively cheap J-8.. for a million dollar gadget stuffed plane was a good catch.

The Iranian airbus incident.. where the "state of the art" AEGIS equipped ship could not tell the difference between a 90 ton lumbering airliner.. and a 25 ton fighter in flight.. heck.. all the tech could not tell if the jet was climbing to cruise altitude like a normal airliner.. or a fighter diving to low level for an attack.
Or simply .. it was a case of a gung ho reckless captain deciding to go john wayne on anything coming out of Iran.

i think in the airliner incident, they ruled that the error was human rather than anything wrong with the aegis system, and that supposedly if the crew wasnt nervous or w/e they would have seen that the computer was indicating that it was not a f-14 coming at them

 

[ptldM3]

People need to do some research, Russian bombers or any other military aircraft will not simply get shot down for approaching within 200 miles of US territory, the TU-95 has been as close as 37 miles off of the Alaskan coast. Russian bombers have also violated Japan's airspace but nothing happened other than warnings. Collisions and shoot down result from foolishness and sometimes incompetence.

 

[S10]

People need to do some research, Russian bombers or any other military aircraft will not simply get shot down for approaching within 200 miles of US territory, the TU-95 has been as close as 37 miles off of the Alaskan coast. Russian bombers have also violated Japan's airspace but nothing happened other than warnings. Collisions and shoot down result from foolishness and sometimes incompetence.

Norweigian P-3 called, it wants its prop blade back.

Bear Hunters, Part 3: Collision with Flanker

"Around 10:56hrs, some 135nm E/SE from Vardö (Norway), and 48nm N of the Soviet border, the same Su-27 appeared for the third time, and now under the starboard (right) wing of the P-3B. The Flanker slowly moved closer and closer, Tsymbal obviously intending to once again suddenly accelerate when underneath the Orion. Finally, he did so, but while pulling up, the tip of his fin hit the prop of the Orion's outboard starboard engine, cutting an eleven centimer long piece of it and catapulting it into the fuselage of the reconnaissance aircraft, thus causing a decompression."

Oh and this guy said he'll pay your house a visit for calling him foolish/incompetent:

 

[ptldM3]

Norweigian P-3 called, it wants its prop blade back.

Bear Hunters, Part 3: Collision with Flanker

"Around 10:56hrs, some 135nm E/SE from Vardö (Norway), and 48nm N of the Soviet border, the same Su-27 appeared for the third time, and now under the starboard (right) wing of the P-3B. The Flanker slowly moved closer and closer, Tsymbal obviously intending to once again suddenly accelerate when underneath the Orion. Finally, he did so, but while pulling up, the tip of his fin hit the prop of the Orion's outboard starboard engine, cutting an eleven centimer long piece of it and catapulting it into the fuselage of the reconnaissance aircraft, thus causing a decompression."

Oh and this guy said he'll pay your house a visit for calling him foolish/incompetent:

He was foolish, is there a point you were trying to make?

 

[S10]

He was foolish, is there a point you were trying to make?

So what were you saying about Russians having nothing but warnings?

 

[gambit]

People need to do some research, Russian bombers or any other military aircraft will not simply get shot down for approaching within 200 miles of US territory, the TU-95 has been as close as 37 miles off of the Alaskan coast. Russian bombers have also violated Japan's airspace but nothing happened other than warnings. Collisions and shoot down result from foolishness and sometimes incompetence.

Especially collisions...The below is one of the stupidest arguments I have seen about this incident...

A pilot's job is to defend his country's security at all costs. Wang Wei knew the risks and yet the EP-3 was successfully brought down. As proven in a radio transcript, the other J-8 pilot asked permission to shoot down the EP-3, was denied, and forced the EP-3 from escaping into international airspace and forced it to land. A pilot that stands idly by while the enemy spied on his country is what is truly defined as a "fool".

...And still being perpetuated by the Chinese government to cover up a self-inflicted international mess.

If Wang Wei was not authorized 'weapons free' does that mean he was authorized to ram the American aircraft to bring it down? If such a general made that authorization, he rightly deserved to be shot for mental incompetency issues. Other than weapons, an aircraft cannot be 'forced' down. It can persuaded to land and that persuasion can include threats of physical harm if it does not comply with the persuasion/order. But no aircraft can be 'forced' down by another aircraft without resorting to weapons or highly likely mutual destruction from a deliberate collision. Even more ridiculous if the adversary is physically much larger because all the EP-3 has to do is maneuver as much as it can and any sane fighter pilot will quickly move out of the way to avoid a collision.

So how the hell can anyone but the most brainwashed believe that Wang Wei did the right thing in creating a situation that killed him and deprived his country of a valuable human asset?

 

[S10]

IMO, there was nothing wrong with intercepting and keeping an eye on the EP-3. Everyone knows what the Americans were there for, and it was spying. The question boils down to whether Wang Wei should have flew the way he did. For me, I think his took too much risk with the way he flew. From posting his email on the cockpit, you can tell he's not a subtle person. However, his death was not in vain. China was able to assess the latest ELINT aircraft in American inventory at the time, which came as an accident. Some may argue that this alone was worth it, but I think otherwise.

Also according to 东沟, a PLAAF pilot who posts on CD, the naval aviation did not have the proper survival equiptment for their pilots at the time. Wang Wei's parachute was seen to have been deployed, but it also killed him as it dragged him into the sea. From that point on, the parachutes automatically detach from naval aviation pilots upon landing. There was also an assortment of other improvements they've made such as signal beacons, improved flotation device and more rapid searcha n rescue response time.

 

[gambit]

IMO, there was nothing wrong with intercepting and keeping an eye on the EP-3. Everyone knows what the Americans were there for, and it was spying. The question boils down to whether Wang Wei should have flew the way he did. For me, I think his took too much risk with the way he flew. From posting his email on the cockpit, you can tell he's not a subtle person. However, his death was not in vain. China was able to assess the latest ELINT aircraft in American inventory at the time, which came as an accident. Some may argue that this alone was worth it, but I think otherwise.

And no doubt the PLAAF's leadership knew of this reckless behavior. Pilots are generally 'Type A' personality. Aggressive, competitive, and a large dose of egotism. Would he have kept quiet about his exploits? Why did they not disciplined Wang Wei? Since then, we have not stopped such recon flights but also have heard nothing else about the inevitable interceptions. China learned a valuable and harsh lesson here.