Air Cdre Azam Khan - The man who got injured defending Kamra Base

[Xeric]

And then there is another thing in the military which is known as "Generation of Combat Power" (GoCP). A very complex issue which requires an indepth understanding of military affairs.

This GoCP is related with the 1) application of correct number /amount of forces at 2) the correct time at 3) the correct place.

i.e. i may be having a Corp plus force sitting near Hyderabad which is fully capable of blunting india's assault, but of what use that Corps is to me if india attacks me near Okara and i cannot put that hefty Corps to use against india? That's to say, i may be weaker than india if we take into account the overall ratio of forces, but then i may be able to be stronger than india at the Point of Decision (PoD), how? Well if i am smart enough i can pull out forces from dormant sectors and pump in the same to a sector which by virtue of my military acumen i have sensed to be the PoD (i.e. a battle whose result would result into a decision (loss/victory) for both the countries), so i may be weak at Faislabad (doesnt matter because i have read/sensed that india would not attack me here) but i m much stronger than india at Sikarpur where i know that india would launch his main attack, and in this way when india attacks and was expecting a much smaller force defending Sikarpur would rather go in shock when it would find double the resistance that she had actually expected.

So may be the Air Cdre's decision was correct to generate his combat power right there and then, rather then waiting for outside forces (SSG) to finally reach Kamra and by time may be a few aircraft had already been damaged, a dozen of men including foreigners taken hostage and 10s of them killed.

i mean what use had it then been to kill the terrorists (who are there to be eventually killed) if they have done the requisite damage and have achieved their aim?

Didnt the same thing happen at Mehran Base?

We lost Orions, men were killed and a stand off that the terrorist knew was going to end up in their demise took place, but to what avail?

And when one has to undertake unorthodox tactics, the commander himself has to devise a method to motivate his men so that they are able to digest the drastic change in plans but setting up personal example, or else the men would probably not respond with the same zeal as they could have if things were going to what they have expected, no?

So as they say, the first casualty in any war is the Plan itself! Nothing goes as per the plan, ever in war, so leaders has to, at times take matters in their own hands so that the rigid minds of their under commands (which normally are not as dynamic as the commanders) can be molded and made ready to accept the change, believe in the new plan and put in their effort with the same force and zeal as if it had been the original plan, savvy?

Military tactics is an art, though lately people have been saying it's a science, you (and VCheng) decide

 

[gubbi]

That's what is called taking "Calculated"-risks. You open up any field manual regarding (any) offensive operations (raid, ambush, attack, room entry, advance etc etc), you would find the writer telling you to take "calculated risks", if you actually want to succeed.

And the success of this very (calculated) risk is what defines a leader, or a general.

This. This calculated risk that you speak of really depends on one's situational awareness. And that boils down to training. Thats what sets successful people apart from novices and amateurs. Luck is nothing but successfully navigating calculated risks.

As they say, a right decision is one that is taken at the right time, a delayed decision is as guud as a wrong one.

Agreed. Whatever the Air Cdre did was the right thing to do in the given situation. But it also depends on ones training and ones ability to stand up and face the situation and the Air Cdre did just that. For that Kudos and speedy recovery.

 

[Agni5000]

Pakistani officers lead from the from unlike the Indian officers who lead from the lavatory.

yeah, you are right like gen niaz in 71.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Xeric: Great post, but it begs one question:

Did the Air Cmdre follow SOPs to be carried out in case of an attack on his base, or not? (If not, why not?)

Sure he did, how else do you expect that 9 terrorists are killed within a short span without any actual damage/casualty? Try to understand that it was a terrorist attack not a war that broke out after intense negotiations between two countries had failed (and probably both the countries had already planned what would they do once the negotiations actual broke).

In a terrorist attack huge damage / causalities are bound to take place as the entire element of surprise rests with the initiator, the best one could do is stop the terrorists from reaching it's 'primary' target whatever that be at the cost of (huge) own casualties.

So, it was only after the commander has gone through the battle procedures, staff checks and delivered his orders/instruction/line of action that he had decided to join in the battle.

Bhai, noora kushti tu nahi hai jahan Air Cdre sahib tashreef laye or farmaya; 'aj mora dil bhi karay hai larnay ko, tu lao meri langothi'.

The SOPs were followed (BTW following of SOPs is mainly concerned only till the time an attack doesnt take place i.e. before an incident, SOPs are their to prevent accidents/incidents), it is the battle procedure and their timely/correct implementation that counters an attack.

So, again yes, the battle procedures were followed, decisions made, orders delivered, men told what is expected out of them and Aim/Mission (both a two very different things in military language) given and then once the counter-stroke was deliver, the Commander himself was among the soldiers. Seriously, i dont find anything odd in it.

Xeric:
I want to rephrase VCheng's question.

Do you think adequate SOPs were present to counter a situation like this ?

As a matter of principle I understand that the commander was aware of the value of the base he was defending; he was aware of the nature of the threat, he had experience to learn from, and time to prepare.

Based upon which, he must have prepared in advance a set of SOPs.

How were those SOPs defeated in less than an hour, by 10 men ?
Do you think going out in battle was always the commander's plan & SOPs ?

Do you think there will be a detailed debriefing ? and officers from across the services will share and learn irrespective of pretige points ?

 

[VCheng]

..................

So, it was only after the commander has gone through the battle procedures, staff checks and delivered his orders/instruction/line of action that he had decided to join in the battle.

Bhai, noora kushti tu nahi hai jahan Air Cdre sahib tashreef laye or farmaya; 'aj mora dil bhi karay hai larnay ko, tu lao meri langothi'.

The SOPs were followed (BTW following of SOPs is mainly concerned only till the time an attack doesnt take place i.e. before an incident, SOPs are their to prevent accidents/incidents), it is the battle procedure and their timely/correct implementation that counters an attack.

So, again yes, the battle procedures were followed, decisions made, orders delivered, men told what is expected out of them and Aim/Mission (both a two very different things in military language) given and then once the counter-stroke was deliver, the Commander himself was among the soldiers. Seriously, i dont find anything odd in it.

As long as the formal inquiry agrees with your statements above in bold, then the actions of the Base Commander will stand vindicated.

PS: I think military men look much better in uniform than langotis.

 

[VCheng]

...............

Military tactics is an art, though lately people have been saying it's a science, you (and VCheng) decide

I would submit that it is BOTH art and science.

 

[Developereo]

The SOPs were followed (BTW following of SOPs is mainly concerned only till the time an attack doesnt take place i.e. before an incident, SOPs are their to prevent accidents/incidents), it is the battle procedure and their timely/correct implementation that counters an attack.

So, again yes, the battle procedures were followed, decisions made, orders delivered, men told what is expected out of them and Aim/Mission (both a two very different things in military language) given and then once the counter-stroke was deliver, the Commander himself was among the soldiers. Seriously, i dont find anything odd in it.

Are you saying our SOPs rely on one sepoy holding back terrorists for 10 minutes?

And please don't say this was an attack by terrorists, not India. We have had bases attacked by terrorists repeatedly. Don't our bases have procedures for precisely these situations? Why was there a response vacuum for 10 minutes?

 

[lkozhi]

There is no chance of an air combat between our nations in his remaining airforce time , so its fine

 

[VCheng]

Are you saying our SOPs rely on one sepoy holding back terrorists for 10 minutes?

And please don't say this was an attack by terrorists, not India. We have had bases attacked by terrorists repeatedly. Don't our bases have procedures for precisely these situations? Why was there a response vacuum for 10 minutes?

Those are exactly the types of questions that need to be answered by the formal inquiry. I would wait for the final result of it, if it is ever made public in a suitably limited form.

 

[Xeric]

Meray aziz bhai or hum watno...i think i have said enough, now why dont you listen to experts:

These guys are a treat to listen to.

Developero and Salamn watch it @ 3:20, may be it will answer your queries:

Air Marshal (Retd) Shahid Lateef: Militants storm Kamra Air Base - YouTube

Also for your better assimilation try watching the following:

Air Marshal (Retd) Shahid Lateef: Militants attacked PAF Minhas Air Base - YouTube

Air Marshal (Retd) Shahid Lateef: PAF Minhas Air Base under attack - YouTube

Air Marshal (Retd) Masood Akhtar: PAF Minhas Air Base under attack - YouTube

 

[Xeric]

An army full of inspiration | Business Recorder

An army full of inspiration
August 25, 2012
S RAHMAN

Bravery and chivalry are not about fighting with weapons alone but it also involves courage, conviction and clarity of vision and above all, faith in one's destiny, the manifestation of which we saw the other day when anti-Pakistan elements tried to breach the security of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex, Kamra. The bold, calculated response of our valiant armed forces ended up in the terrorists' elimination.

The fact is that not even the most organised and well-equipped forces of the western states, including the United States, could act with so much of courage and quick-wittedness. This is not an imaginary theory but a hard, undeniable fact. The entire world, especially the military experts and analysts have expressed admiration of Pakistan's armed forces' quick response to an organised militant activity that was not easy to smell beforehand. The sacrifices rendered by our devoted armed forces' personnel namely Asif and Iqbal who embraced martyrdom and Commodore Muhammad Azam who got injured during the militants' attack, have not only boosted the morale of a depressed nation but also conveyed to the outside world that Pakistani armed forces are fully capable of defending their beloved homeland against external- and internal- threats whatever the degree of their surreptitiousness or stealth that is typical of guerrilla warfare or ambushes.

There had been many discussions and debates going on in the western media (some of our own media sections have been following in their footsteps) that Pakistan was maintaining a big army that lacked counter-insurgency capability and capacity. That misconception has proved to be a piece of sheer ignorance about the high degree of professional excellence and preparedness that our armed forces have achieved with extraordinary speed during the last few years. The able command of CoAS, General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani and his team of brave and brilliant commanders, as well as the Intelligence agencies, has proved that their mettle that can be judged the best.

Obviously, the inspiration in regimented forces comes from two main sources. One is the conviction of the personnel that their fight is not without a cause. Our soldiers who laid down their lives, did it for the noble cause of embracing 'Shahadat' (martyrdom). They are defending their country created in the name of Islam.

The other source of inspiration is the strong will and resolve of the commanders in general and the Chief of Army Staff in particular. One feels relieved when one comes across the news items that CoAS General Ashfaq Pervez Kayani, is always on the move and is always very eager to join the forces on the front, whether they are deployed on Siachen or in the Gayari sector or whether they are fighting the fiercest adversaries on the western border or elsewhere. This on-the-spot presence of the Army Chief, every now and then, has worked as an effective morale-booster.

The ideal thing about this entire situation is that a wide section of our mainstream political leadership and the armed forces are on one page. The Pakistan People's Party government and its allies and President Asif Ali Zardari have been very particular about deciding the vital security issues with consensus. And, in this consensus endeavour, the PPP-led government has taken all measures to facilitate and strengthen the armed forces in terms of equipment's procurement and betterment, and professional excellence.

This, in turn, has instilled greater confidence in the armed forces' top brass and their rank and file because the support extended to the armed services by a people's elected government gives the message that the armed forces enjoy the backing of the people of Pakistan.

Yet more commendable is the role of our armed forces and the political government for another important reason and that is their steadfastness in odd and difficult circumstances. Neither the government nor our armed forces have ever ceased to fight against the menace of terrorism (as well against the menace of despondency and hopelessness created by design by vested interests). It is a different thing that fighting terrorism and terrorists is an uphill task, given the fact that the majority, if not all, of them are from amongst us. As stated by the CoAS during his Independence Day address, the task of proceeding against compatriots is never a welcome exercise but if some groups or individuals question the very foundation of our beloved homeland and launch armed attacks on its installations and people, inspired by the anti-state agenda of our enemies, the armed forces and the government are left with no choice other than fighting the ill-wishers of Pakistan.

One thing must be elaborated here in this specific context and that is our misconception, usually promoted by some ill-informed media persons, of breach of security. Whenever, there is an ugly occurrence of terrorism, these media persons start clamouring about breach of security. Let it be clear to all and sundry that in Kamra in particular, there was no breach of security, although breach of security can happen even in the most scientifically advanced countries like the United States or UK. Here, in our country, personnel of the security force are embracing martyrdom to prevent the breach of security. In most occurrences, our security men preferred to lay down their lives, rather than allow the militants to penetrate into their targeted zones. This spirit, that finds no precedent in any other security force of the world, must be praised again and again and acknowledged in practical terms, by dispelling the confusion about militants, who at times are painted in the glory theory perspective as heroes, by some misled scholars, analysts and media persons. The time has now come to clear all misconceptions and conspiracy theories. We will have to draw a clear distinction between an armed forces martyr and an anti-state militant. One defends the homeland, whereas the other undermines it. We must also pay heed to the advice of the saner elements including the CoAS who is looking towards the parliament for legislating effective anti-terrorism laws, so that die-hard extremists involved in killing thousands of innocent Pakistani Muslims, men, women and children in mosques, imambargahs and during funerals and religious processions, don't go scot-free. The people are also looking towards the judiciary to fill the gap left by the legal lacunae, through case law and verdicts so that the release of 900 plus hardened criminals, desperadoes and enemies of Pakistan, is not repeated to the detriment of the peace-loving Pakistanis, as well as the forces defending them at the cost of their precious lives.

----

A bit inaccurate, but mostly the article is spot on. Still posting it with love especially for the 'hater group'

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Xeric.. Sir, plzz pardon me, for my ignorance, but what a bit inaccuracy are u pointing towards, in the above article? I, with my limited knowledge, ofcourse, couldnt find one.. So, can u plz enlighten us, with your thoughts abt it..

 

[Xeric]

@Xeric.. Sir, plzz pardon me, for my ignorance, but what a bit inaccuracy are u pointing towards, in the above article? I, with my limited knowledge, ofcourse, couldnt find one.. So, can u plz enlighten us, with your thoughts abt it..

Well i wanted to leave that to the reader. Anywaz, as you have asked it now, try concentrating on the key words like; 'Islam', 'PPP', 'measures to facilitate' etc.

 

[Farah Sohail]

@Xeric.. Thank u Sir.. Got your point now

 

[MastanKhan]

Sure he did, how else do you expect that 9 terrorists are killed within a short span without any actual damage/casualty? Try to understand that it was a terrorist attack not a war that broke out after intense negotiations between two countries had failed (and probably both the countries had already planned what would they do once the negotiations actual broke).

In a terrorist attack huge damage / causalities are bound to take place as the entire element of surprise rests with the initiator, the best one could do is stop the terrorists from reaching it's 'primary' target whatever that be at the cost of (huge) own casualties.

So, it was only after the commander has gone through the battle procedures, staff checks and delivered his orders/instruction/line of action that he had decided to join in the battle.

Bhai, noora kushti tu nahi hai jahan Air Cdre sahib tashreef laye or farmaya; 'aj mora dil bhi karay hai larnay ko, tu lao meri langothi'.

The SOPs were followed (BTW following of SOPs is mainly concerned only till the time an attack doesnt take place i.e. before an incident, SOPs are their to prevent accidents/incidents), it is the battle procedure and their timely/correct implementation that counters an attack.

So, again yes, the battle procedures were followed, decisions made, orders delivered, men told what is expected out of them and Aim/Mission (both a two very different things in military language) given and then once the counter-stroke was deliver, the Commander himself was among the soldiers. Seriously, i dont find anything odd in it.

Hi,

Absolutely incorrect and a very bad analysis----. You cannot keep protecting the blunders and safeguarding poor thinking.

The base commander is not only a commander but he is the commander in chief of the air base---he is the leader---he is the person in charge---his place is only and only in the command room---.

It is an absolutely misleading statement that he joined the action after taking all actions that he needed to----. If such was the case---he did not have to join---the actions that he would have taken would have neutralized the enemy strike force of 8 within a very short time.

Pakistani military needs to stop misleading the civilians---what if there was a strike force waiting a 3'o clock or at 6'o clock or in any other position and waiting for a full engagement at one side and then making their move from the flanks---or from behind.

The general needs to learn that he is not a foot soldier any more----that he is not a peon---he needs to learn to designate authority---give directions and then wait for them to be implemented----he is a task master---he is the MAESTRO---his job is to direct the orchestra---not to toot his own horn.

If this is the mindset of of pak military in how to operate in such a minor confilct but with monumentuous results---this military is absolutely ill trained and ill advised.

Next time the recommendation would be for the Air chief Marshall to jump in the JF17 and take out the su30---.

The truth is very simple----the participation of the general in this small conflict shows the defences were ill equipped to take on the enemy strike---if there would have been enough security personal available to take on the threat---there would have been no room for the general to get to see the action---and then being shot three time in the arm---.

As i have stated many a times here---proof is in the pudding---the statements are that Sipahi Asif gave them 10 minutes time---even if it was 3 to 5 minutes time---that time is like eons in combat when an enemy force first strikes and you are running to pickup your weapons----.

There are only 8 terrorists and with the first onslaught of aggression in the first few moments it becomes clear from the enemy firepower how many are involved.

This scenario as being shown ( meaning the reaction of the base commander ) is not believable at all---it simply defies common sense---.

There is no comparison of a brigade commander on the battlefield in the middle of a war involved in fighting to this scenarion of a fixed operations air force base being struck at from insurgents---and that even a very small number.

If such were the procedures---then they are an extremely poorly mandated procedures---. Then updated proceduresmust be constituted and implemented by the military---. A general officer cannot be seen swinging the sword into the middle of the action---it happened in medievel times----and when it did---it was of last resort---.

In this minor skirmish---there was no place for the general to pickup arms---. It shows that either the general had no trust in his troops---or the troops were ill prepared and not capable at all.

Why do you need 'gods' to come and do the fighting when the puny little angels can do the job---it only happens in case of failures---when 'god's have forgotten to take care of the issues beforehand.

Dirt cannot be hidden under the rug any more.