Air Battle: What If an F-14 (That Iran Still Flies) Battled a Stealth F-22 Raptor?

[Tokhme khar]

These are the 64 confirmed one's, just for the F-14A:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war

In addition there are the 136 others with the Aim-54A, where the results were not confirmed as the aircombat took place over enemy territory. Most Iraqi pilots didn't even know what hit them from a 100 miles away. Details in this book:

https://www.booktopia.com.au/irania...mbat-and-farzad-bishop/prod9781841767871.html

Why, in your opinion, 'that arrogance' has crept in?

And can you point out to me any legal invasion of any sovereign nation by another nation? In any instance in the recorded history?




Can you source that?
All I could find was:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Iranian_aerial_victories_during_the_Iran–Iraq_war



Who did you kill? Targets?

I have 'claims' of over 3000 in F-14 Flight Simulator over the past decade too

 

[Placemat]

Sorry bro, it a no contest unless the f22 is flown by someone like me , lol.

 

[LeGenD]

Hey if you ask me which one I'd rather fly in, the answer is obvious haha...of course the Tomcat. Age is merely a number, the spirit is eternal!

Just like I would pick a lot of WW2 planes over todays modern jet fighters. I mean even a B-grade athlete today would probably (even easily) beat Jesse Owens in most track/field disciplines (given progress of training regimen and sport science etc)....but who's name do we really remember in the end? It speaks to that aspect of it I feel.

So there is an eternal presence, deeper worth and higher "soul" of an aircraft past its absolute "numbers" power projection.

I am actually in another somewhat closed forum where a huge amount of time has been devoted by lot of experts and military vets to rank aircraft power across all time....esp for use in alternate history debates...I think they originally used the sopwith camel as the base reference 1 point heh. But no one there is going to say F-22 etc.. as their favourite (just because it has highest "power" number).

You are a man of classic tastes.

F-14 Tomcat was/is a wonderful bird. Problem for Iran is lack of spares, and options for upgrades, from American sources. If US and Iran were on great terms, then...

I would however disagree with your view of F-22A Raptor. It is the crown jewel of modern-era birds, with lot of room for advancements in the near future. Pilots of F-22A are the luckiest of them all. Ain't anything like it out there, my friend.

RwR won't get triggered when the lock is on ?

Following would be the situation up against an F-22A Raptor in a fight:-

F-22A have omnidirectional VLO characteristics across C, X, Ku, S, and L bands to negate detection from numerous types of radar systems, and signal suppression, and would undermine situational awareness of the opposing aircraft.

The AN/APG-77(v)1 radar system is integrated (electronically fused) with the ALR-94 EW suite (RWR; 30+ antennas; 463+ KM scanning range in azimuth and elevation), making it possible for F-22A to perform complex offensive and defensive EW operations in combination at any given point in time, and minimize/stop its transmissions in the process. In layman terms, the AN/APG-77(v)1 does not have to transmit its signals for long, and the ALR-94 can "passively" track an enemy aircraft’s RF signals (radar, data link, jamming, etc.), and then cue AN/APG-77(v)1 to provide a firing solution [excellent for BVR engagements]. The entire architecture is VLO-compliant in functioning (technicalities and specifics are classified in large part), and a potent EW platform on top.

Details in this post: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/f-22...ade-jet-fighters.566560/page-11#post-11003614

 

[jhungary]

Hey if you ask me which one I'd rather fly in, the answer is obvious haha...of course the Tomcat. Age is merely a number, the spirit is eternal!

Just like I would pick a lot of WW2 planes over todays modern jet fighters. I mean even a B-grade athlete today would probably (even easily) beat Jesse Owens in most track/field disciplines (given progress of training regimen and sport science etc)....but who's name do we really remember in the end? It speaks to that aspect of it I feel.

So there is an eternal presence, deeper worth and higher "soul" of an aircraft past its absolute "numbers" power projection.

I am actually in another somewhat closed forum where a huge amount of time has been devoted by lot of experts and military vets to rank aircraft power across all time....esp for use in alternate history debates...I think they originally used the sopwith camel as the base reference 1 point heh. But no one there is going to say F-22 etc.. as their favourite (just because it has highest "power" number).

@jhungary @gambit @LeGenD @Vergennes @MilSpec @AUSTERLITZ @Joe Shearer @TOPGUN @waz @Arsalan @hellfire @Oscar @Marine Rouge @Game.Invade

F-14 is the only plane I have not been able to get on, probably was still a young lad when they were popular (was 8 years old when Top Gun make a hit. I was on a 2 seater F-15 and F-18 for a demo flight, and on a F-16 when they were doing static display, I actually sat on an A-10 in Afghanistan.

While there are virtually no chance for a F-14 to fend off a F-22, but still you would want to see the underdog win. On the other hand, my favourite plane of all time is P-51D, which I have actually flown solo, when I was getting my Pilot qualification.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

Iran - used limited chemical strikes in Basrah against Iraqi Army III Corps tasked with defence there in April 1987 and mustard gas in 2nd week of October 1987, in response to Iraqi attacks.

Where the hell did you get this bullshit information from? Provide the evidence for this and put your hashish away.

That without the air force, the rest of your military is essentially impotent.

Considering how you missed what I said, yes, you are the fool.

I'm not sure what is funnier, that you made the semantic mistake in the first place or that you are still oblivious to it.

An invasion is necessary for certain military objectives, but not all. What we wanted for Iraq does not mean we want the same for Iran. So if all we want is to render the ENTIRE Iranian military impotent, US airpower will do.

That's so laughably delusional that it doesn't even merit a response.

Most of the casualties were on the ground, and due to enemy switching to asymmetric methods of warfare. The manner in which Muslims choose to fight these days, is utterly cowardly and in stark contrast to the principles of Battle of Badr.

I don't care if the casualties were in the sky or in your mother's house. The US fights with unmanned drones to bomb civilians from thousands of feet in the sky and you complain that Iraqis don't fight back the way you want? Hilarious.

Your claims are completely off the mark (and charts).

Total cost of operations, and rebuilding efforts, in Iraq = 1.1 Trillion USD mark (2003 - 2018)
Total cost of operations, and rebuilding efforts, in Afghanistan = 1.1 Trillion USD mark (2001 - 2018)

Nope:

"The United States has appropriated and is obligated to spend an estimated $5.9 trillion (in current dollars) on the war on terror through Fiscal Year 2019, including direct war and war-related spending and obligations for future spending on post 9/11 war veterans."

https://www.businessinsider.com/the...f-the-war-on-terror-will-top-6-trillion-soon/

 

[LeGenD]

I don't care if the casualties were in the sky or in your mother's house. The US fights with unmanned drones to bomb civilians from thousands of feet in the sky and you complain that Iraqis don't fight back the way you want? Hilarious.

Dude, watch your tongue. And omit this remark from your statement.

The US fights with unmanned drones to bomb civilians from thousands of feet in the sky and you complain that Iraqis don't fight back the way you want? Hilarious.

They have assassinated thousands of TERRORISTS (Al-Qaeda affiliates, and similar agencies) over the course of years, and 'precision munitions' were used.

Why these TERRORISTS take cover among civilians? Why don't they fight US forces out in the open? Their is no honor in the way these scumbags choose to fight.

Nope:

"The United States has appropriated and is obligated to spend an estimated $5.9 trillion (in current dollars) on the war on terror through Fiscal Year 2019, including direct war and war-related spending and obligations for future spending on post 9/11 war veterans."

https://www.businessinsider.com/the...f-the-war-on-terror-will-top-6-trillion-soon/

Costs are part of human activities. Every minute, a country is bearing costs of various activities.

It is important to put these costs in proper CONTEXT, and do a COST-BENEFIT assessment of any venture. I can provide you breakdown of actual costs of expeditions in Iraq and Afghanistan; not some phony statistics. I am getting "page not found" message in the link you cited by the way.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

Dude, watch your tongue. And omit this remark from your statement.

What's wrong with your mother's house?

They have assassinated thousands of TERRORISTS (Al-Qaeda affiliates, and similar agencies) over the course of years, and 'precision munitions' were used.

"Between January 2012 and February 2013,” The Intercept reported, “U.S. special operations airstrikes killed more than 200 people. Of those, only 35 were the intended targets."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...inistrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/

Most drone strikes murder civilians from thousands of feet in the sky, this is honour to you.

Costs are part of human activities. Every minute, a country is bearing costs of various activities.

So from this meaningless nonsense I guess you retract disputing my $6 trillion figure. Good.

Here is the study: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar...rd_Costs of War Estimates Through FY2019 .pdf

 

[LeGenD]

"Between January 2012 and February 2013,” The Intercept reported, “U.S. special operations airstrikes killed more than 200 people. Of those, only 35 were the intended targets."

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...inistrations-drone-strike-dissembling/473541/

https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-assassination-complex/

Most drone strikes murder civilians from thousands of feet in the sky, this is honour to you.

You skipped this part:

"Why these TERRORISTS take cover among civilians? Why don't they fight US forces out in the open? Their is no honor in the way these scumbags choose to fight."

Complete statistics in here: https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/projects/drone-war

TOTAL KILLED = 8,289 - 11,792
CIVILIANS KILLED = 758 - 1,619

You have a better idea about how to kill terrorist scumbags?

Drones offer LEAST COSTLY approach to neutralize terrorist scumbags.

So from this meaningless nonsense I guess you retract disputing my $6 trillion figure. Good.

Here is the study: https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/files/cow/imce/papers/2018/Crawford_Costs of War Estimates Through FY2019 .pdf

This report provides an overview of [indirect and direct] costs of every American military expedition across the world since 2001, but completely overlooks the BENEFITS side of equation.

[1] https://www.york.ac.uk/depts/maths/histstat/lies.htm
[2] https://www.fastcompany.com/1822354/7-ways-lie-statistics-and-get-away-it

My emphasis is on the COST - BENEFIT analysis, and not on one-sided analysis.

 

[gambit]

That's so laughably delusional that it doesn't even merit a response.

All of your 'military analyses' about US do not merit responses, but I tried any way, if at least shows the readers the ignoramus that you are.

To defeat the Iranian military, we MUST invade Iran? Please...

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

All of your 'military analyses' about US do not merit responses, but I tried any way, if at least shows the readers the ignoramus that you are.

To defeat the Iranian military, we MUST invade Iran? Please...

The US can't defeat the Iranian regime with just airstrikes and anything the US can destroy can be rebuilt.

Iran will retain its BMs stored underground and the IRGC can be weakened but nothing close to destroyed, same with Iranian proxies through the region. All airstrikes could achieve is to further weaken Iran's airforce and navy (both barely exist as it is) and its air defence (mostly domestic so can be rebuilt easy + the rest Russia will happily reinforce as in Syria). Any US ships dumb enough to be in the Persian Gulf would be destroyed and US bases across the ME would suffer huge losses.

Doesn't seem worth it to me, but with military geniuses like you who knows what is possible.

 

[Nilgiri]

You are a man of classic tastes.

F-14 Tomcat was/is a wonderful bird. Problem for Iran is lack of spares, and options for upgrades, from American sources. If US and Iran were on great terms, then...

I would however disagree with your view of F-22A Raptor. It is the crown jewel of modern-era birds, with lot of room for advancements in the near future. Pilots of F-22A are the luckiest of them all. Ain't anything like it out there, my friend.

Oh I am not taking anything away from F-22. If it was pure combat and my life is on line, I would pick it for sure over anything.

Just like you said I am talking from a more curious pleasure cruise kind of perspective. I would pick M1 abrams tank for the battle....but if I have choice in just checking something out and taking for a spin etc, it would rather be in a sherman tank (given their histories and significance etc). Its that kind of thing

 

[Avicenna]

Interesting watch. Enjoy!

 

[Hellfire]

Where the hell did you get this bullshit information from? Provide the evidence for this and put your hashish away.

No free history lessons for you now. Look it up! Am not here to do your legwork for you. My aim was to give you hints for your own use. So that you avoid assuming a position which remains untenable.

Look for it. You will find some mentions on google in open sources too Hashish, yeah right

Have fun!

 

[gambit]

The US can't defeat the Iranian regime with just airstrikes and anything the US can destroy can be rebuilt.

And can be destroyed again...And again...

Doesn't seem worth it to me, but with military geniuses like you who knows what is possible.

At least I served. Have you ?

 

[Hellfire]

At least I served. Have you ?

Majority here assume playing Call of Duty and the 'Islamized' versions as service rendered.

All the best.