Ahmadiyya Mosque under threat and Ahmadis beaten up

[Slav Defence]

Why not sane people condemn the attack on the holy place of the sect, instead of expressing their paranoia, and how Ahmaddiyya's are a threat to a version of Islam.

First of all Mr.Hellraiser,I condemn this attack on Ahmadis,second,they are declared non-muslims,because their prophet is entirely different and so their teachings,and because Miraza Ghulam Ahmed Qaiyaani has also abused the concept of God..
Now,here a question arises,that why many muslims consider them a threat?
It is because of the fact that Qadiyanis are NON-MUSLIMS,yet they are not accepting it,they try to mix themselves with us,forget theories,their basic idea is totally reciprocate to the concept of Islam,that is why they were officially declared non-muslim in 1971 constitution,and it was a proper regime,a decision of government body with specific,authentic mufties,not some illiterate,so-called mullah with lack of knowledge.

 

[Cherokee]

and this is our educated youth!!

I am more shocked at the level of pseudo Mullah-mongering on this thread . Nobody is Discussing the issue at hand but fighting , debating and bitching over naming convention of Ahmediyya place of worship . And these are people who are "Socially" and "Geo-politically" aware .

 

[anonymus]

So you mean to say Muslims in India slaughter the cow out of anger?! (because that post is a reply to the @Black Widow where the slaughtering of cow was compared to burning of Quran

Guess what!

I never posted what you are quoting.

 

[Black Widow]

Pakistan is no place for Minorities, No matter you are Muslim or not...

As per Hassan Nissar

"First we targeted Hindus and Sikhs, when they shrink to micro minority
We Targeted Ahmedi, When they shrink to micro minority
We started targeting Shias...."

Host: What will happen after Shia shrink to micro-minority?

Nissar: " We will start targeting Sunni, Wahabi, non Wahabi, we will start fighting on etheniticity and state, Punjabi will start killing Karachite and so on"

Host: When you see that time coming..

Nissar: "Soon"....

 

[Hellraiser007]

First of all Mr.Hellraiser,I condemn this attack on Ahmadis,second,they are declared non-muslims,because their prophet is entirely different and so their teachings,and because Miraza Ghulam Ahmed Qaiyaani has also abused the concept of God..
Now,here a question arises,that why many muslims consider them a threat?
It is because of the fact that Qadiyanis are NON-MUSLIMS,yet they are not accepting it,they try to mix themselves with us,forget theories,their basic idea is totally reciprocate to the concept of Islam,that is why they were officially declared non-muslim in 1971 constitution,and it was a proper regime,a decision of government body with specific,authentic mufties,not some illiterate,so-called mullah with lack of knowledge.

If they mix with you guys leave it to GOD he will take care of them.

 

[Slav Defence]

If they mix with you guys leave it to GOD he will take care of them.

No no,this is the collapsing point,we can't afford to let them mix with us,it is just like you accept the reciprocation of Quran,in this sense,you will allow them to corrupt the version of actual,authentic Islam.
However,they are free like other minorities to practice their religion,it is the right that Islam and government of Pakistan has given them and nobody has right to snatch it from them.

 

[Black Widow]

Christianity is Blasphemy to Judaism
Islam is blasphemy to Christianity (How can Muslim claim Jesus as prophet when he is part of god)
Ahmedis are Blasphemy to Islam... (How can they say Muhammad was not last prophet)


Its very complex dude..

No no,this is the collapsing point,we can't afford to let them mix with us,it is just like you accept the reciprocation of Quran,in this sense,you will allow them to corrupt the version of actual,authentic Islam.
However,they are free like other minorities to practice their religion,it is the right that Islam and government of Pakistan has given them and nobody has right to snatch it from them.

Read my post #105

 

[Ehsan]

True...IF their principles were the same as the Quran (which is the reason one is called a Muslim coz they follow the Quran) and the Quran CLEARLY states NO PROPHET after Nabi SAW!! Now if one ADDS or REMOVES something from the book he/she is supposed to follow.....what is the word used for them?

First of all Mr.Hellraiser,I condemn this attack on Ahmadis,second,they are declared non-muslims,because their prophet is entirely different and so their teachings,and because Miraza Ghulam Ahmed Qaiyaani has also abused the concept of God..
Now,here a question arises,that why many muslims consider them a threat?
It is because of the fact that Qadiyanis are NON-MUSLIMS,yet they are not accepting it,they try to mix themselves with us,forget theories,their basic idea is totally reciprocate to the concept of Islam,that is why they were officially declared non-muslim in 1971 constitution,and it was a proper regime,a decision of government body with specific,authentic mufties,not some illiterate,so-called mullah with lack of knowledge.

Here is a proof what is required to be a Muslim so PLEASEEEE...

HOLY QURAN

“Know that there is no God but Allah.” (47:19)
and

“Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.” (48:29)
The Quran also says: “Believe in Allah and His messengers.” (4:171)

As regards who is a Muslim, the Quran says:

“Say: It is revealed to me that your God is one God. Will you then be Muslims?” (21:108)
“Say: We believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to us, and in that which was revealed to Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and in that which was given to the Prophets from their Lord. We do not make any distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims.” (2:136)

“Do not say 'you are not a believer' to a person who says assalamu alaikum to you.” (4:94)

SUNNAH

“Ibn Umar reported that the messenger of Allah, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, said: Islam is based on five things — testifying that there is no god but Allah and that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, keeping up prayer, giving in charity (Zakaat), the Pilgrimage (hajj), and fasting in Ramadaan.”
(Bukhari, Book of Faith; Book 2, ch. 1; p. 90 of edition used)

In the well-known story of the conversion of Umar to Islam, given in Shibli’s famous biography of the Holy Prophet Seerat an-nabi, it is related that when Umar became convinced of the truth of the Quran, he declared his conversion to Islam by crying out: “I testify that there is no god but Allah, and I testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.”

When Abu Bakr became the first Caliph, he wrote a letter to certain apostate tribes, explaining how he became a Muslim:

“I praise the true God, besides whom there is none to be worshipped. I declare that Allah is One, without partner, and Muhammad is His servant and messenger. We affirm the message of Allah which he brought us. He who denies it, is a kafir.”

Ghazali, one of Islam’s greatest philosophers, wrote:

“He who says, ‘There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His messenger’, with the tongue but does not confirm it in his heart, there is no doubt that in the Hereafter he shall be included among the unbelievers, and shall enter hell. But there is also no doubt that, so far as affairs of this world are concerned, the religious and secular authorities shall include him among the Muslims because it is not known what is in his heart, and we are obliged to accept what is on his tongue.”

Shafi‘i, founder of one of the four schools of jurisprudence in Sunni Islam, related the following:

“It was reported to Umar, the second Caliph, regarding a certain man that he was not a believer at heart, but merely a Muslim in the outward sense. Umar asked him: ‘Is it not true that you are only outwardly a Muslim, and not really a Muslim, and your only reason for embracing Islam is to gain Islamic rights?’ He asked Umar: ‘Sir, does Islam deprive those people of their rights who follow Islam only in the outward sense, and does it leave no way for them?’ Umar said: ‘Islam has left a way for them’, and then said nothing further.”
(Kitab al-Um, vol. vi, p. 154)

 

[Slav Defence]

Christianity is Blasphemy to Judaism
Islam is blasphemy to Christianity (How can Muslim claim Jesus as prophet when he is part of god)
Ahmedis are Blasphemy to Islam... (How can they say Muhammad was not last prophet)


Its very complex dude..




Read my post #105

Off topic...
yet still I will show this to you,not on the basis of what quran speaks but what bible speaks first.

Here,
14 Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God
Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.&#8221

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation
soleil10 is offline

 

[Ehsan]

Off topic...
yet still I will show this to you,not on the basis of what quran speaks but what bible speaks first.

Here,
14 Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God
Bible Verses That Indicate Jesus Is Not God The Creator

1. Matthew 24:36
No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.
Here Jesus makes a distinction between what he knows and what the Father knows.

2. Matthew 26:39
My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me, yet not as I will, but as Thou will.
Jesus’ will is likewise autonomous from God’s Will. Jesus is seeking acquiescence to God’s will.

3. John 5:26
For as the Father has life in Himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.
Jesus received his life from God. God received his life from no one. He is eternally self-existent.

4. John 5:30
By myself, I can do nothing: I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who has sent me.
Jesus says, “by myself, I can do nothing.” This indicates that Jesus is relying upon his own relationship with God. He is not trying to “please myself” but rather is seeking to “please the one who sent me.”

5. John 5:19
The Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees the Father doing, because whatever the Father does, the Son does also.
Jesus declares that he is following a pattern laid down by God. He is expressing obedience to God.

6. Mark 10:18
Why do you call me good? No one is good, except God alone.
Here Jesus emphatically makes a distinction between himself and God.

7. John 14:28
The Father is greater than I.
This is another strong statement that makes a distinction between Jesus and God.

8. Matthew 6:9
Our Father, which art in Heaven.
He didn’t pray, Our Father, which art standing right here!”

9. Matthew 27:46
My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Inconceivable if he is God the Creator.

10. John 17:21-23
. . .that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. . ..that they may be one as we are one: I in them and you in me.
In this prayer Jesus defines the term “to be one.” It is clearly accomplished through the relationship of two autonomous beings. Christian believers are to model their relationship (to become one) after the relationship of God and Christ (as God and Christ are one). Notice that “to be one” does not mean to be “one and the same.”

11. 1 Corinthians 15:27-28
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.
Paul declares that God put everything under Christ, except God himself. Instead God rules all things through Christ. (remember: “through him all things were made.&#8221

12. Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being.
Jesus is the exact representation of his being. I send my representative to Congress. He is not me, myself. He is my representative.

13. Hebrews 4:15 (compared with James 1:13)
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet without sin.
Jesus has been tempted in every way, just as we are, yet he never sinned. See

James 1:13: When tempted, no one should say, God is tempting me. For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt.
Jesus was tempted in every way, but God cannot be tempted. This is why Jesus said, “don’t call me good, none are good, only God.”

14. Hebrews 5:7-9
During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. Although he was a son, he learned obedience from what he suffered and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him
Jesus had to walk a course of faith and obedience in order to achieve perfection. By achieving perfection, Jesus “became” the source of eternal salvation
soleil10 is offline

Ahmadis believe the founder to be the Imam Mahdi the one foretold to come in the later days for a second suppose he isnt and then you accept the one who really is the Imam Mahdi and you accept him would you become a non muslim ?

 

[Slav Defence]

1- Jesus is not all knowing:


Mark 24: 32-36:


32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only

God is all-knowing, Jesus fails this main qualification. This alone is enough to prove that Jesus is not God. Also note the verse says ONLY the Father meaning nobody else, including the divine Jesus.

2- Jesus never said I am God.

Is this a coincidence? I think not. If you make a claim on someone, then you would expect that someone to back your claim up. If I claim somebody is a king, you would expect that king to say he is a king, at least once. In the OT God says he is God several times, why not once with Jesus in the NT? Did God change his ways? I think not, since the OT says God does not change. Here are the passages from the OT where God says he is God:

Gen 35:11 And God said unto him, I [am] God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall be of thee, and kings shall come out of thy loins

Gen 46:3 And he said, I [am] God, the God of thy father: fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will there make of thee a great nation:

Exd 16:12 I have heard the murmurings of the children of Israel: speak unto them, saying, At even ye shall eat flesh, and in the morning ye shall be filled with bread; and ye shall know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Exd 20:2 I [am] the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

Psa 50:7 Hear, O my people, and I will speak; O Israel, and I will testify against thee: I [am] God, [even] thy God.

Psa 81:10 I [am] the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt: open thy mouth wide, and I will fill it.

Isa 41:10 Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Isa 45:3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call [thee] by thy name, [am] the God of Israel.

Isa 45:5 I [am] the LORD, and [there is] none else, [there is] no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of old: for I [am] God, and [there is] none else; [I am] God, and [there is] none like me,

Jer 32:27 Behold, I [am] the LORD, the God of all flesh: is there any thing too hard for me?

Eze 13:9 And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.

Eze 20:19 I [am] the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;

Eze 20:20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I [am] the LORD your God.

Eze 23:49 And they shall recompense your lewdness upon you, and ye shall bear the sins of your idols: and ye shall know that I [am] the Lord GOD.

So as we can see, God is not shy to say I am God. SO if Jesus is God, then how come he never said it once like the God of the OT? This is not a coincidence.


3- Jesus is the son of man, the OT tells us not to trust the son of man:


The New Testament makes it very clear that Jesus is the son of man:

Mat 8:20 And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air [have] nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay [his] head.

Mat 9:6 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house

Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Luk 9:44 Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.

Luk 9:22 Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

Jhn 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.


The Old Testament tells us not to put our trust in the son of man:

Psalms 146:

1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise the LORD, O my soul.
2 While I live will I praise the LORD: I will sing praises unto my God while I have any being.
3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.


So note, Jesus is the son of man, the OT tells us not to put our trust in the son of man; therefore we cannot place our trust in Jesus so he cannot be God. The OT is basically saying that you shouldn’t put your trust in men as you do with God, so hence we cannot put our trust in Jesus in the same way we do with God since Jesus is just a man, and he cannot really save us. So hence Jesus cannot be God.

1- Jesus is the son of man
2- The OT tells us not to put our trust in the son of man
3- We cannot put our trust in Jesus as we do with God
4- Jesus is not God

The OT also tells us that there is no help in the son of man, therefore this means Jesus cannot help anybody, therefore he is not God since God can help all. So we cannot place our trust in Jesus, nor can he help us, therefore he cannot be God according to the OT.


4- Jesus was GIVEN power and authority, he did not own it.

As we all know, God is all-powerful and is independent, he needs no help from anybody. However so this is not the case with Jesus, unlike God, Jesus needs help from God, unlike God, Jesus does not own any power or any authority, rather it is given to him from God.

Jhn 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

John 17:6-8: 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that ALL THINGS whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me


So as we can see, Jesus GIVEN everything he had! This all included miracle, doctrine etc. Basically Jesus did not do anything of his own, he never performed a miracle by his own power, he was given the miracle. He never taught anything of his own, rather he was taught by God and spoke what God told him to speak.

Jhn 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jhn 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him.

Jhn 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

So everything Jesus had was from God, from the Gospel to his miracles. God needs no one to give him power, God needs no one to tell him what to do, therefore Jesus is not God.

I challenge any Christian to bring me one single miracle Jesus performed on his own, just one. The Christian will never be able to meet this challenge.


5- Jesus was sent to a specific nation only, not to mankind

It is very strange that when we read the Bible, we find that Jesus was sent to preach to a specific nation only, not mankind. One would expect to find Jesus being sent to all of mankind if he was God, rather what we find is that Jesus just like all the other prophets, was sent to a specific nation only:


Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So as we see, Jesus was sent only for the lost sheep of Israel. His main duty was for them, not the gentiles or the world. Christians often like to say Jesus told his disciples to go preach to the gentiles, however so this doesn’t change anything. Jesus’ real mission as we see was for the children of Israel, not the gentiles, the verse I posted cannot be refuted. The verse is very clear, Jesus is SENT for the lost sheep of Israel, not the Gentiles, Jesus saying go preach to Gentiles does not mean he was sent for gentiles.

5- Jesus denied being good in the sense that God is good.

If Jesus is God one would expect him to admit he is good in the sense that God is good, meaning perfect. However when we read the Bible we see that Jesus denies being good in the sense that God is good which is perfect. Here are the passages:

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

So note, the man calls Jesus good, Jesus tells the man there is non good but God. Obviously Jesus referred to God as someone else, which also proves Jesus isn’t God. However the main importance of the passages is that Jesus denies being Good in the way God is good, which is to be perfect.

6- Jesus could not save anyone

The Bible also claims that Jesus cannot save anyone! Here is the passage:

Hebrews 5:1-8: 1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins: 2 Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity. 3 And by reason hereof he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins. 4 And no man taketh this honour unto himself, but he that is called of God, as was Aaron. 5 So also Christ glorified not himself to be made an high priest; but he that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; 8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered


So Jesus cried to the one who could save him from death, this means Jesus could not save himself from death, therefore this also means Jesus cannot save anyone else from death. How can Jesus be God when he cannot save anyone? This also shows that Jesus is not in control of life and death, God however is in control of everything, including life and death:

And they have taken besides Him gods, who do not create anything while they are themselves created, and they control not for themselves any harm or profit, and they control not death nor life, nor raising (the dead) to life. S. 25:3 Shakir
This verse is from the Noble Quran, I guess this sums it all up doesn’t it?

7- Jesus’ believers did NOT believe he was God neither

One of the greatest Christian myths is that Jesus’ followers believed he was God. However so, this is not true, the Bible says otherwise:

Matthew
Chapter 16

13-14

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am? 14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets

So as we can see, the believers out of the population did not take Jesus as God, they took him for a great man, such as John the Baptist, or Elias, or some others. None of them said he is God. Now let us read on and see what his own disciples took him for:

15-20

15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

So note, now Jesus asks his disciples about what they take him to be for, they respond by saying he is the SON OF GOD, Jesus agrees with them and tells them tell no man I am the Christ. So note, Jesus’ disciples do not say you are God, Jesus himself does not say he is God.

Now both the son of God and the term Christ do not mean God. They never have, and never will. The term Christ means Messiah, the definition of Messiah is not God, and the Jews who were awaiting their Messiah did not believe the Messiah would be God:

The predominant Jewish understanding of moshiach ("the messiah") is based on the writings of Maimonides, (the Rambam). His views on the messiah are discussed in his Mishneh Torah, his 14 volume compendium of Jewish law, in the section Hilkhot Melakhim Umilchamoteihem, chapter 11. Maimonides writes:
"The anointed King ("HaMelekh HaMoshiach") is destined to stand up and restore the Davidic Kingdom to its antiquity, to the first sovereignty. He will build the Temple in Jerusalem and gather the strayed ones of Israel together. All laws will return in his days as they were before: Sacrificial offerings are offered and the Sabbatical years and Jubilees are kept, according to all its precepts that are mentioned in the Torah. Whoever does not believe in him, or whoever does not wait for his coming, not only does he defy the other prophets, but also the Torah and our Rabbi Moses. For the Torah testifies about him, thus: "And the Lord Your God will return your returned ones and will show you mercy and will return and gather you... If your strayed one shall be at the edge of Heaven... And He shall bring you" etc." (Deuteronomy 30:3-5).

"These words that are explicitly stated in the Torah, encompass and include all the words spoken by all the prophets. In the section of Torah referring to Bala'am, too, it is stated, and there he prophesied about the two anointed ones: The first anointed one is David, who saved Israel from all their oppressors; and the last anointed one will stand up from among his descendants and saves Israel in the end. This is what he says (Numbers 24:17-18): "I see him but not now" - this is David; "I behold him but not near" - this is the Anointed King. "A star has shot forth from Jacob" - this is David; "And a brand will rise up from Israel" - this is the Anointed King. "And he will smash the edges of Moab" - This is David, as it states: "...And he struck Moab and measured them by rope" (II Samuel 8:2); "And he will uproot all Children of Seth" - this is the Anointed King, of whom it is stated: "And his reign shall be from sea to sea" (Zechariah 9:10). "And Edom shall be possessed" - this is David, thus: "And Edom became David's as slaves etc." (II Samuel 8:6); "And Se'ir shall be possessed by its enemy" - this is the Anointed King, thus: "And saviors shall go up Mount Zion to judge Mount Esau, and the Kingdom shall be the Lord's" (Obadiah 1:21)."

"And by the Towns of Refuge it states: "And if the Lord your God will widen up your territory... you shall add on for you another three towns" etc. (Deuteronomy 19:8-9). Now this thing never happened; and the Holy One does not command in vain. But as for the words of the prophets, this matter needs no proof, as all their books are full with this issue."

"Do not imagine that the anointed King must perform miracles and signs and create new things in the world or resurrect the dead and so on. The matter is not so: For Rabbi Akiba was a great scholar of the sages of the Mishnah, and he was the assistant-warrior of the king Ben Coziba, and claimed that he was the anointed king. He and all the Sages of his generation deemed him the anointed king, until he was killed by sins; only since he was killed, they knew that he was not. The Sages asked him neither a miracle nor a sign..."

"And if a king shall stand up from among the House of David, studying Torah and indulging in commandments like his father David, according to the written and oral Torah, and he will coerce all Israel to follow it and to strengthen its weak points, and will fight Hashem's wars, this one is to be treated as if he were the anointed one. If he succeeded {and won all nations surrounding him. Old prints and mss.} and built a Holy Temple in its proper place and gathered the strayed ones of Israel together, this is indeed the anointed one for certain, and he will mend the entire world to worship the Lord together, as it is stated: "For then I shall turn for the nations a clear tongue, to call all in the Name of the Lord and to worship Him with one shoulder" (Zephaniah 3:9)."

"But if he did not succeed until now, or if he was killed, it becomes known that he is not this one of whom the Torah had promised us, and he is indeed like all proper and wholesome kings of the House of David who died. The Holy One, Blessed Be He, only set him up to try the public by him, thus: "And from the seekers of wisdom there shall stumble, to purify among them and to clarify and to brighten until the time of the ending, for there is yet to the set time" (Daniel 11:35)."

Taken from Redirecting...

In Judaism, who is the Messiah?

The messiah is a G-d fearing, pious Jew, who is both a great Torah scholar and a great leader as well. He is a direct descendent of King David, and will be anointed as the new Jewish King. (In fact, the Hebrew word for messiah - "Moshiach" - means "anointed one.").

When the messiah comes, there will be a universal recognition of the truth of Torah and the G-d Who gave that Torah at Mount Sinai. All Jews will return to the Land of Israel, where they will throw off the yoke of their enemies and undergo a complete spiritual revival. They will embrace the faith of their forefathers and dedicate themselves to G-d's service forever.

They will re-build the Holy Temple, from where the Divine presence will shine forth, spreading the light of truth, justice, tolerance and peace throughout the world.

Taken from Judaism 101: Mashiach: The Messiah

The Moshiach
The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as "moshiach ben David" (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments. (Isaiah 11:2-5) He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15). But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.
It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the moshiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person's lifetime, then that person will be the moshiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the moshiach, then that person is not the moshiach.

For a more detailed discussion on the terms Son of God, and Christ. Visit this link:

What did the followers of Jesus take him as? A great man or God?



8- Will you worship Jesus, or the one Jesus worshiped?


One glaring problem the Christians have is that Jesus prayed, and had a God himself. This logically lets us conclude that Jesus cannot be God. The logical thing to do is worship and pray to the one Jesus prayed to. If Jesus told you that he had a God, would you honestly take Jesus as God? The logical answer is no, but Christians throw all logic out when it comes to their Bible.


Matthew 26:36-44
36. Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, "Sit here while I go over there and pray."
37. He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled.
38. Then he said to them, "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me."
39. Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will."
40. Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. "Could you men not keep watch with me for one hour?" he asked Peter.
41. "Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the body is weak."
42. He went away a second time and prayed, "My Father, if it is not possible for this cup to be taken away unless I drink it, may your will be done."
43. When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy.
44. So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, SAYING THE SAME THING.

So are you going worship the one Jesus prayed to? Or are you going to worship Jesus? Logically you worship the one Jesus prayed to.

Secondly just say you were alive at Jesus’ time and you were with him, and you knew he prayed to God and so on, would you honestly believe he is God? Off course not! It gets worse as Jesus himself claims he has a God:

John 20:16-18 :

16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the LORD, and that he had spoken these things unto her.

Now tell me, if a man came to you and told you he has a God, would you honestly believe that man is God? No, you would not. Logic tells you if a man has a God then that man is not God, however Christians through logic at the window it seems, Christians want to worship Jesus, not the one Jesus worshiped. Christians want Jesus to be their God; they do not want Jesus’ God to be their God. What a shame.

So Jesus prays and has a God, how un-Godly is that?


9- God comes out of a woman? God is a helpless baby?


The very fact that Jesus was given birth, and came out as little helpless small baby is enough to refute the claim that Jesus is God. It is utter blasphemy to claim that God came out of a women like all people, it is utter blasphemy to claim God came out crying and screaming and being helpless and weak. Such nonsense is insulting to God; this itself is enough to prove Jesus is not God. How can you claim that God came out of a woman? Are you mad? Are you insane? How can you insult God in such a manner, you Christians should be ashamed of yourselves for ascribing such rubbish to God.

 

[Ehsan]

.... it is utter blasphemy to claim God came out crying and screaming and being helpless and weak. Such nonsense is insulting to God; this itself is enough to prove Jesus is not God. How can you claim that God came out of a woman? Are you mad? Are you insane? How can you insult God in such a manner, you Christians should be ashamed of yourselves for ascribing such rubbish to God.

So is a claim that Jesus got lifted up in Heaven alive instead dying a natural death defying all natural laws while Prophet Muhammad PBUH the greatest of all Prophets died and is buried ?

 

[Slav Defence]

Ahmadis believe the founder to be the Imam Mahdi the one foretold to come in the later days for a second suppose he isnt and then you accept the one who really is the Imam Mahdi and you accept him would you become a non muslim ?

I will become non-muslim if I will deny that Rasool Allah is last prophet of Islam,and if I say that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed (s.a.w)is not last prophet of Islam (nauzubillah)
why should I go on further when the very base reciprocates and denies Islam?

 

[sur]

@hinduguy

@ WebMaster
i am reporting you....
webmaster sir your eman is at stake.....
ban this scum permanently.

Do YOU have Eemaan??? You insult other's religious figures then how can you expect them not to reciprocate...!!! You "turbo charged" should be banned permanently too.

Quran:6:108: Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance.

There are clear cut rules in Quran for who is Muslim or not. Those who believe in Muhammad as last prophet are Muslim and those who do not are not. ...

Stop lying About Quran. Show us where in Quran it says that if anyone does not believe in Prophet Muhammad as last prophet he is not a muslim??? Bring ur evidence or shut up.


Show us where in Quran it says that or repent for telling lies against ALLAH's book.



Ahmadis are misguided just like many other sects are misguided in one thing or another. But such does not give us right to declare them non-muslim.

-
-
-

1 ... 2 ...3 ... 4 ... 5

So you dont believe the return of Jesus or the coming of Imam Mahdi foretold :

He it is Who has raised among the unlettered people(Gentiles = "ٱلۡأُمِّيِّـۧنَ ") a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His Signs, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and Wisdom though before that they were in manifest error; And He will raise him among others of them who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise." Surah Al-Jumuah 62:3-4.

These verses are NOT about return of Jesus nor about Mahdi. These are about Prophet Muhammad.

Your translation is WRONG & words have been added that give wrong impression.


Correct translation is "As well as others of them, who have not already joined them: and He is Exalted in Might, Wise." / "Along with others of them who have not yet joined them"
There's NO "HE will raise among others" in the highlighted part of ur translation...




It's talking of same person sent to Arab-Gentiles & also for non-Arab-Gentiles(others who have not yet joined them)...
NOT 2 separate persons as you wrong translation implies...

.. islam believe that prophet was the last messenger .. they dont believe that .. just read the meaning of the first kalma ..u will get some idea ..

Just making a point... first kalima does not have the words "the last" in it.




Ahmadis are deviated from original but so are almost all the sects in one thing or another. Who can be more deviated than those who pray to\intercede thru saints (Shia & some Brailvis) doing exactly what idol worshippers do i.e. intercede with something that cannot hear or respond... If I were to declare(thou I don't) anyone non-Muslim I'd go for those who pray to saints in graves since ALLAH has said HE will never forgive SHIRK besides that HE'll forgive whatever HE wants...




Also Ahmadis have associated prophethood with just one guy Mirza... Shia have long claimed that 12 of their imams receive divine revelation... SHia might not use the term "prophet" but essentially their claim is similar to claim of Ahmadis...





Q:4:116:Lo! Allah pardons not shirk against Him. He pardons all save that to whom He will. Whoso does shirk unto Allah hath wandered far astray. (Also 9:113)


Q:10:18: They worship things beside GOD that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors with GOD!" (شُفَعَـٰٓؤُنَا=Shifaa'At=Waseelaa Banana=سفارشی=وسیلہ) Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Beyond is He(Pure is He) and high exalted above all that ye associate (with Him)!

... ...


Q:30:52:"...So verily, you cannot make the dead to hear..."

Q:35:22:".....you cannot make hear those who are in graves."

Q:16:20-21:Those unto whom they cry beside Allah created naught, but are themselves created. (20) (They are) dead, not living. And they know not when they will be raised.

Also Q:10:192, 194, 197, 198... Q:13:14,,, Q:46:5,,, Q:39:38:,,,
Q:2:255,,, Q:67:13-14,,, Q:35:22,,, Q:10:3 & 49,,, Q:32:4,,, Q:7:194

Sunan an-Nasa'i 4867. In-book ref:Book 45, Hadith 162. English ref:Vol.5, Book 45, Hadith 4871
"I heard Ana's say: 'The Messenger of Allah said: 'the major sins are; associating others with Allah (shirk), disobeying one's parents, killing a soul (murder) and speaking falsely.

 

[Ehsan]

I will become non-muslim if I will deny that Rasool Allah is last prophet of Islam,and if I say that there is no god but Allah and Muhammed (s.a.w)is not last prophet of Islam (nauzubillah)
why should I go on further when the very base reciprocates and denies Islam?

So you dont believe the return of Jesus or the coming of Imam Mahdi foretold :

He it is Who has raised among the unlettered people a Messenger from among themselves who recites unto them His Signs, and purifies them, and teaches them the Book and Wisdom though before that they were in manifest error; And He will raise him among others of them who have not yet joined them. He is the Mighty, the Wise." Surah Al-Jumuah 62:3-4

A companion of The Holy Prophet sa relates: One day we were sitting with The Holy Prophet sa when this chapter was revealed. I enquired from Muhammad sa. Who are the people to whom the words and among others of them who have not yet joined them refer? Salman ra, a Persian was sitting among us. The Holy Prophet sa put his hand on Salman ra and said.If faith were to go up to the Pleiades, a man from among these would surely find it. (Bukhari).