Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Abu Zolfiqar]

''hate'' is a very strong word

 

[apophenia]

@ Regular

You need to calm down. Just because they believe in a system different from yours doesn't make them traitors. You need to reread your history books because somewhere you will find a list of individuals belonging to this community made us all proud to be Pakistanis'

Except Hazrat Isa of course... or is it that he was born before Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) so it doesn't really mean that he will be coming after him. You know you don't make sense really.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:57 PM ----------

What a farce. Jesus is among those upon whom prophet hood was endowed before Muhammad. Just because the poster made a mistake literal mistaken doesn't change any facts.

No.. you are a liar because you tell lies. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I'm not forcing you to adopt anything, and no, I'd rather not PM you and get into a pointless debate.
Btw manstream Islam is what the majority follows... I wonder if you can work that out.

---------- Post added at 04:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:00 PM ----------



the un-Islamic ways of the clerics? Are you uneducated?

Grow some balls and prove your accusation. Oh wait maybe uncle M asked you not to debate that you might actually get the drift you have been punked.

Food for thought ..The 'A' is not a religion, it's a ponzi scheme..Lets rock n roll!!

 

[thegreensprite]

Somebody got stuff to troll on..

Anyway, You need a sound knowledge of Islam to understand what is the issue over here with Ahmedies and just bringing up a video to troll won't bring any fancy without even knowing what it is all about is senseless.

Sound knowledge of Islam is the key here... which you don't seem to posses but you like making wrong statements as if you were a authority when it comes to Islam.

Ahmedies as per their name consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as their last Prophet and he himself declared to be a Prophet or to be precise he called himself the awaited Prophet (Imam Mehdi, who himself is not Propeht but the 12th Imam), who will appear just before the day of judgement and will support Hazrat Essa (Jesus Christ) on his Return to fight against Dajjal (Anti-Christ). And time has proved itself that a person announced himself as Imam Mehdi and during his life time neither Christ nor Anti-Christ appeared so he is a lawyers.

Wrong, we don't call the Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad(as) the last prophet but the Imam Mehdi and that's where it stops. Now your point of what will happen and how and timescales(ie.he will appear before day of judgement and assist Hazrat Isa...etc) is a discussion about your flawed interpretations.

Ahmedies follow him as a Prophet when this itself denies the very basic definition of a Muslim and the basic concept of Islam.

That is YOUR interpretation, not the truth.

And this definition of Muslim, using which this guy in video is trying to bash Ulema's is:

A Muslim is a person who considers Allah as the one and only God and Prophet Muhammad (S.A.W) as the last prophet.

Which is 100% correct.

And here their faith denies Islam.

Again only your opinion.

Also, Islam asks Muslims to provide non-muslims with equal rights...

Ok carry on...

... but people like these who have tried to alter the very fabric of this religion are have bear consequences and a person or a group carrying such acts are not only considered as other non-muslims instead such a person/group is considered traitor of the religion.

What does this mean? You don't seem to understand Islam and should stop pretending to be a Muslim scholar. Islam forbids killing any human what so ever(apart from a war like defensive situation)...there are no special clauses where you are allowed to kill/persecute anyone else, even if you makeup lies about our beliefs and try to foster hate. So all your arguments are flawed as you have stepped away from the true path of Islam.

 

[thegreensprite]

I thought the 1974 National Assembly resolution resolved the issue but both Qadianis and their opponents wants keep the issue alive.

Maybe when the cowards in government release the 1974 proceeding of what actually was said maybe the issue will die down.. but until the day we can only assume the government is hiding something.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------

The laws against Ahmadi's violate all those tenets of Islam, and the ironic thing is that those who support such prejudice and discrimination against Ahmadi's justify it by using Islam.

Attributing such prejudice and discriminatory laws to Islam is an insult to Islam.

Which makes these supporters of discrimination only Muslims by name, they should have no say in anything to do with Islam.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

Qadianis neither keep low profile nor seem to understand Muslim reactions. They just keep drawing attention to themselves.

Because Ahmadi Muslims are not cowards.

 

[thegreensprite]

The way you take it as a shame on Pakistanis, in precisely the same manner we (Muslims) take it as a shame if someone enounces prophecy and still goes on to live. (followers of such a kafir are not included for such a death row)

It's a shame you call yourself Muslim if this is your way of thinking. Haven't you learnt by now that Muslims are only good at killing each other, it's people like you wh

Don't term it as a black law, instead look how hard and directly do you people hit Islam and then ask to overturn any Law, we make, to curb such strike? And how could you forget that Pakistan is an Islamic republic, kaam ki nahi chalo NAAM KI TO REHNY DO.

It is a black law.. and Pakistan has been reaping its rewards ever since. If you can persecute one minority, that shows there is no justice in that country and everybody becomes a target.

...neither this law has anything to do with slavery nor racial segregation, nor do we follow US in constituting Islamic laws.

...but the moment someone offers you a greencard you would sell your right arm for it.

I guess you will have to bring it into Supreme courts notice for any such thing to happen and then defend your stance logically.

Funny you talk about logic and there hasn't been any logic in any of your statements. LOL

 

[thegreensprite]

Why are there Ahmadis only in the subcontinent? I never heard of an Arab Ahmadi or a Persian Ahmadi or a Turkish Ahmadi, I only met Pakistani and Indian Ahmadis.

That is only due to your limited knowledge/friends/etc... Ahmadis exist in nearly every country of the world(including Saudi Arabia), but Pakistan and few other basket cases(Bangladesh/Indonesia) are the only ones where the government actively joins the persecutors.

If these Ahmadis were in Saudi Arabia they would be worse off than they are in Pakistan but Arabs wouldn't tolerate them from the start.

We are in there aswell.

Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW said:

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

Is that your whole knowledge of Islam? Rather than copying and pasting, do you understand Islam?

 

[thegreensprite]

yeah dude have u ever investigated who was a part of making that established fact!

Just a hint ......our dear(very reputeable) Dr. babar awan(fradoo) was a part of that religious legislative assembly!! Go figure

and muslims are over 2.5 billion in population througout the world.....how can u say its an established fact when this established fact is actually drafted and established by pakistan only

Logic han!!

i second that... and I love their logic. ;-)

 

[thegreensprite]

Ohh somebody wants to talk logic........Allah subhana watalla mentions in Quran......that a false prophet will be caught from his she-rug!!

You can have a field day with half of these numpties talking about logic.. LOL

now my dear friend when Allah takes the responsiblity of dealing with the false prophet why do the "muslims" of pakistan have to take it to themselve to safe guard islam.....infact it shows thier distrust on God and his sayings

The thing is these same Muslims are incapable of running a country with justice.. who are they to safeguard anything let alone Islam.

Anything thats based on discrimination and hatred is infact a black law......Can you do me a favour!! ask any imam sahab a simple question.......what is a difference between "Khatim...with a zair on arabic tey" and "khatam....with a zabar on arabic tey" and then ask him which word was used to refrence Holy Prophet.....you will get the whole game in seconds

Khatim means Last
Khatam means Seal(stamp used for authenticity which infact validates the forthcoming of prophets after prophet muhammed(PBUH))

PLz do that for the sake for proving me wrong atleast!!

None of these lot would do that.. and if they did, they would twist a lie to make it truth.

---------- Post added at 03:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:06 PM ----------

sir, plz can u xplain wht they did for the Creation Of pakistan.. As i knw zafar ullah khan qadiani never participate in jinaza of Jinnah.

Do you know WHY Zafrullah Khan sb refused to read the jinaza? Because the maulvi sb reading it declared Ahmadi Muslims as kafirs.. simples. We don't say any prayers behind people who declare us kafir.

 

[thegreensprite]

Mr HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW is the last and final PROPHET OF ISLAM no other prophet of any kind will come after him is the main believe of Islam and to be a Muslim we have to believe it but Ahmdaies deny this so they are not Muslim

Wrong, the basic tenets Islam do not mention that you have to believe that Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was the last prophet, you only have to say the kalma tayeba and done.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Can members stop discussing each other faith in National Political issues?

 

[Bratva]

Wrong, the basic tenets Islam do not mention that you have to believe that Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was the last prophet, you only have to say the kalma tayeba and done.

What the hell man? Okay i forgot you were ahmedi. So i will ask you to proof your WORDINGS. real proof from Prophet Mohammad Sayings. All the things you above claim. I need your proof to claim. I can provide you tons of Proofs which say Imam Mehdi will be from an ARAB tribe and he will appear in Holy Ka'aba. Provide what you claims From Prophet Mohmaad sayings or else you will be Damned by falsifying claim

and btw, How come Ghulam mirza is mehdi if Hazrat ESA hasn't arrived yet?
=========================================================================
The Prophet Muhammad said:
The world will not come to an end until the Arabs are ruled by a man from my family whose name is the same as mine and whose father’s name is the same as my father’s.

Umm Salama said:
His [the Mahdi's] aim is to establish a moral system from which all superstitious faiths have been eliminated. In the same way that students enter Islam, so unbelievers will come to believe.

When the Mahdi appears, God will cause such power of vision and hearing to be manifested in believers that the Mahdi will call to the whole world from where he is, with no postman involved, and they will hear and even see him.

I heard the Messenger of God say: "The Mahdi is of my lineage and family"
=========================================================================

Now how come Mirza ghulam is not from the lineage of Pophet Mohammad (PBUH)? How come after the arrival of Ghulam Mirza, Islam hasn't united instead ore divisions are created in it? How come Mirza ghulam Ahmad hasn't had power to call whole world from where he is?

 

[apophenia]

Maybe when the cowards in government release the 1974 proceeding of what actually was said maybe the issue will die down.. but until the day we can only assume the government is hiding something.

---------- Post added at 02:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:44 PM ----------



Which makes these supporters of discrimination only Muslims by name, they should have no say in anything to do with Islam.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------



Because Ahmadi Muslims are not cowards.

The funny thing is that the argumentation that “A” used has been available for years. It's on their webs. Go check it out. Coward government??? I don't think so, let me give a crash course in history. In 1953, Pakistan govt. was pressurized to declare “A’s” as minority but Pak govt. refused to do so. Mass riots broke out. The Pak govt. imposed martial law. There was chaos and destruction everywhere. Maudoodi was jailed, so were many others.

Instead buying into cheap “A” conspiracy theory that the Government of Pakistan kept the 1974 proceedings of the NA secret for the fear that if these proceedings were made public, half of Pakistan would convert to "A". You should read what Justice Yahya Bakhtiar said the reason the records weren't released was for the safety of the "A's". Btw did I forget to mention he is known for his secular mindset: P and was no doubt a brilliant jurist.


Let me break it down to you again:

- The arguments and materials the Ahmadis used in 1974 are available and public.
- The proceedings have informally been available elsewhere. I have seen the transcript. Maulana Alla Wassaya's work is also available; It makes for gripping reading and is not in the least surprising.


Talk about not being coward when “A” propagandist cry about state sponsored prosecution. and "A's" are famous for claims' asylum on the grounds of religious persecution.

 

[Zarvan]

Wrong, the basic tenets Islam do not mention that you have to believe that Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) was the last prophet, you only have to say the kalma tayeba and done.

Sir it is the main Belief of Muslims and Islam not of ahmedies to believe in HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW as the last and final PROPHET is must to be a Muslim and Ahmedies don't believe it so they are not Muslims

 

[Perceptron]

Sir it is the main Belief of Muslims and Islam not of ahmedies to believe in HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW as the last and final PROPHET is must to be a Muslim and Ahmedies don't believe it so they are not Muslims

I have never understood this, why does any religion have to enforce that he/she/it is the last messenger of God ? Why is Islamic principles on the same so rigid to the extent of being intolerant on this matter ? Every miracle we see in this world is by God's will. This means that every occurence of a miracle is carried out through some messenger of God, not necessarily in flesh and blood. Why are Muslims so insistent on the same that a messenger who carried God's miracle some 1300 years ago was the final one ?

 

[apophenia]

Do you know WHY Zafrullah Khan sb refused to read the jinaza? Because the maulvi sb reading it declared Ahmadi Muslims as kafirs.. simples. We don't say any prayers behind people who declare us kafir.

Intellectual fraud, once again. Zafrullah Khan did not offer the janazah prayer of Qaid-e-Azam, saying something along the lines of "You can either consider me the non-Muslim official of a Muslim country or a Muslim official of a non-Muslim country".