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Ahmadis in Pakistan

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and here it is from the same website.... and I've read it myself in Roohani Khazaaein

"All Muslims regard my books with reverence and care and benefit from their sublime thoughts except those who are the offspring of prostitutes (B@$T#@&%$); God has put a seal upon their hearts and they do not accept me."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 5, Page 547-548; Mirat-o-Kamalat-i-Islam, P. 547;
Aeena-e-Kamalat Islam, P.547-548)
[Mirza Ghulam translated this Arabic word as "Bastard" in
Roohany Khazaen Vol. 11, P. 282)
 
SO do you think these are all false??

I found this in reply to some of those.

“These people first prepared a fatwa of kufr against me, and about 200 Maulvis put their seals upon it, calling us kafir. In these fatwas, such hostility was shown that some Ulama even wrote that these people (Ahmadis) are worse in disbelief than Jews and Christians; and they broadcast fatwas saying that these people must not be buried in Muslim cemeteries, they must not be offered salaam and greetings, and it is not proper to say prayers behind them, because they are kafir. They must not be allowed to enter mosques because they would pollute them; if they do enter, the mosque must be washed. It is allowable to steal their property, and they may be killed …

Now look at this falsehood, namely, that they accuse me of having declared 200 million Muslims and Kalima-professing people to be kafir. We did not take the initiative for branding people as kafir. Their own religious leaders issued fatwas of kufr against us, and raised a commotion throughout Punjab and the whole of India that we were kafir. These proclamations so aliented the ignorant people from us that they considered it a sin even to talk to us in a civil manner. Can any maulvi, or any other opponent, prove that we had declared them kafir first? If there is any paper, notice or booklet issued by us, prior to their fatwas of kufr, in which we had declared our Muslim opponents to be kafir, then they should bring that forward. If not, they should realise how dishonest it is that, while they are the ones who call us kafir, they accuse us of having declared all Muslims as kafir. …Then having declared us kafir by their fatwas, they themselves admit that he who calls a Muslim a kafir gets the kufr reflected back upon himself. Under these circumstances, was it not our right to call them kafir according to their own admission?”

(Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, See Ruhani Khaza’in, v. 22, p. 122-124)

I am going back to work, find the rest yourself by usine Google.
 
Dare to deny the References from ahmadi Books.

Except for the Quran and Bible, I have not read any other book about religion. Truthfully speaking, religious books do not interest me at all.

I wouldn't know.
 
I'm reminding you all that this forum does not appreciate thumping religious texts around. The validation of Ahmedis as Muslims or non-Muslims is beyond the scope of Defence.pk. However their freedom to profess and preach all the tenets of their faith in Pakistan is. Their freedom as a people of Pakistan.

And I repeat for the final time: Quoting Hadiths, Quran, Maulvis, Pir Fakirs, of either side of the divide is strictly not allowed. Stop it.
 
@ Zarbe Momin

Even others believed Jesus died a natural death and they are not followers of Mirza ghulam. Food for thought.. one of the reason that the issue of Jesus death is trivial because the chapter that discuss return of Esa was revealed very early at mecca, even before god revealed the truth about the crucifixion which was just after the battle of Uhud..
 
boring ... after 1120 post this thread seems to be going no where... even it crosses 1 million mark it will remain same as of... because..

1) no Muslim in pakistan can accept Ahmadi as Muslim

2) Ahmadis will always try to call them self as muslim, which they can't because of above reason.

Pakistan has nothing to do with the issue. its solely a theological matter so dont generalize. The issue with Ghulamism is universal. The claim of MGAQ is totally repugnant to the Koran and traditions and the fundamental belief of the moslim and that’s why majority refute ghulamism plainly.
 
Pakistan has nothing to do with the issue. its solely a theological matter so dont generalize. The issue with Ghulamism is universal. The claim of MGAQ is totally repugnant to the Koran and traditions and the fundamental belief of the moslim and that’s why majority refute ghulamism plainly.

My point was because of Pakistan's Constitution, all Pakistanies believe this. Their is a minority outside pakistan who believes against this, but this isn't case in Pakistan.
 
My point was because of Pakistan's Constitution, all Pakistanies believe this. Their is a minority outside pakistan who believes against this, but this isn't case in Pakistan.

Well they have been declared non moslims in our countries as well hence your argument is floored. majority in pakistan dont give a **** about this issue and you need to recheck on your reference because the biggest anti-admadiyya campaigners are not in pakistan nor are pakistani. let me name few individuals for you.

1) Hassan Bin Mahmood Odeh. (Israeli)
(Ex-Ahmadi former director general of Arabic section of AMC)
2) Irshad and Dr Rashid (USA /UKK)
 
Well they have been declared non moslims in our countries as well hence your argument is floored. majority in pakistan dont give a **** about this issue and you need to recheck on your reference because the biggest anti-admadiyya campaigners are not in pakistan nor are pakistani. let me name few individuals for you.

1) Hassan Bin Mahmood Odeh. (Israeli)
(Ex-Ahmadi former director general of Arabic section of AMC)
2) Irshad and Dr Rashid (USA /UKK)
Pakistanis should be worried if laws are in place that take away the freedoms of other Pakistanis. Curbs on freedom never end, we've already gone from media censorship to internet censorship. They are all linked. Freedom begets freedom, oppression begets oppression.
 
Pakistanis should be worried if laws are in place that take away the freedoms of other Pakistanis. Curbs on freedom never end, we've already gone from media censorship to internet censorship. They are all linked. Freedom begets freedom, oppression begets oppression.


Agreed and the issue should be debated but showcasing actions of lunatics to support deliberation on this matter is unjustifiable. Freedom is always subjective. State laws are define considering the interest of majority though highly debatable but basic premises can be found in state laws around the world. I have posted on this thread extract of decision from European court on case similar in nature where the court explained reason why state has the right to limit freedom (religious freedom).
 
Pakistanis should be worried if laws are in place that take away the freedoms of other Pakistanis. Curbs on freedom never end, we've already gone from media censorship to internet censorship. They are all linked. Freedom begets freedom, oppression begets oppression.

Hi,

What about the freedom of majority? What about their rights?

You cannot allow a food company to use wrong means of producing Food. You need to have check and balance. If state can intervene in this situation to help protect the health of people then state can also intervene to help protect faith of people.

There are copyright names that others can't use. Islam has a definition and is copyright. Any one coming up to that definition is allowed to use the word. Similarly, a Muslim Majority state refuses to allow, a particular group of people, the right to use the name Muslim and Islam and Masjid for the very reason that they could not prove themselves that they are up to the definition.


Apart from letting Ahmadis using Muslim name and and call their place of worship Masjid, what are the other discriminations that the state is posing on to them. Are they not allowed to join Armed Forces or any other government institute? Are they not allowed to buy and own property? Are they not allowed to own and expand their businesses?

I think this is pure exaggeration when it comes to Pakistan State Vs Ahmadis. By saying that State is intervening in Freedom of its people, a different message is sent altogether.

Ahmadis have been claiming that they are right and every one else is wrong for a long time and it is an established fact. Now the same has come back to haunt them. They have been very vocal on the issue of discrimination but I believe that not letting them using some words is not discrimination but rather restriction. They are not discriminated in our country (my Uncle is in Business Partnership with Ahmadis for as long is I remember) but Restricted.
 
Mastermind of Jinnah Hospital attack uncovered

LAHORE: Intelligence sources confirmed that a doctor in Jinnah Hospital, Lahore was the mastermind behind the attack carried out by terrorists. Five people, including four policemen, were killed and nine people were injured in the brutal attack.

Sources further said that Abdullah also gave shelter to the terrorists prior to the attack, and provided them a map of the hospital. He also allegedly provided the vehicle for their escape, and aided one injured terrorist after the assault.

...

Despite Abdullah being a junior doctor, they said, he gained access to the terrorist inside the ICU because of his alleged connections with the Islami Jamiat-e-Taleba (IJT) and the Jamaatud Dawa, which is a banned group.

Mastermind of Jinnah Hospital attack uncovered – The Express Tribune
 
The Mad Mullahs
Time: Mar 30, 1953

For two days last week, a wild mob ruled the Pakistan city of Lahore (pop. 849,000). Surging through the streets, hungry Muslims stoned and stabbed police, burned buses and automobiles, ripped up railroad tracks, cut telegraph wires, smashed traffic lights and forcibly blackened the faces of anyone caught riding a bicycle or automobile. All shops closed and public officials fled. The city's 300 police, disarmed by the mob, were withdrawn from the streets. All communication with the outside world was cut off.

It was a minor revolution which swept this capital of the fertile Punjab province—a revolution engineered by fanatical mullahs against the Pakistan government. Five and a half years ago, when millions of frightened refugees were pouring into newly created Pakistan, the mullahs were the people's leaders. They had a strong voice in the government. But when the country began establishing industries, hospitals, schools and banks, the mullahs protested that these innovations clashed with Islamic law. When Pakistani women shed their veils and emerged from purdah (complete seclusion in the home), the more fanatic mullahs were outraged. When the time came for Pakistan to draw up a constitution, the mullahs demanded that it be based on the Koran. (Result: Pakistan, a nation of 76 million, is still without a constitution.) The government of Prime Minister Kwaja Nazimuddin avoided an open clash with religious leaders, but paid less attention to their counsel.

The Hungry Mobs. Last month a religious group known as the Ahraris, influenced by fanatic mullahs, demanded that the government declare half a million members of the Ahmadiya sect to be non-Muslims. The Ahmadiyas are a close-knit and unpopular group, followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, who at the turn of the century declared himself a Nabi, or prophet of Allah. There was politics in the mullahs' demands, because Pakistan's Foreign Minister, able, bearded Sir Mohammed Zafrullah Khan, is an Ahmadiya.* The Ahraris' mullahs demanded his removal. When the government refused, the mullahs began stirring up trouble, particularly in Lahore, where there are many Ahmadiyas. Craftily they timed their protest to occur before the new season's crops were harvested, when people were hungry.

Spellbinding mullahs whipped up crowds in Lahore's many mosques, and in a few days wild processions were shouting anti-Ahmadiya slogans. When police clubbed and shot demonstrators, the bodies of the dead and wounded were dragged to the mosques, where the mullahs exhibited them. Within a week the Ahmadiyas had been forgotten: thousands of hungry Pakistanis had turned their wrath on the government. In the streets they cried "Hai Nazimuddin" (Woe on Nazimuddin).

The Counter Blow. When news of the Lahore uprising reached Prime Minister Nazimuddin in Karachi, he ordered 44-year-old Major General Mohammed Azam Khan, commander of the military cantonment outside Lahore, to move into the city and regain control. Ten thousand Pakistani troops put the city under martial law. Within six hours the revolution was over. The Red Cross counted 330 dead at first aid stations. Other dead, picked up and buried by relatives, probably raised the death toll to 1,000 or more.

At week's end, Moslem Prime Minister Nazimuddin cautiously blamed the Ahraris for the rioting. This was strong stuff in a nation founded on religion. When the Ahraris failed to protest. Nazimuddin boldly lashed out, accused them of having opposed the formation of Pakistan. The Ahraris stayed silent.

The only sound in Lahore was the banshee wail of the curfew siren and the tramp of hobnailed military boots on the darkened, empty streets.

* Another of his distinctions: to have made the longest-winded speech in U.N. history, which took up two consecutive Security Council meetings. Subject: India's misdeeds.

PAKISTAN: The Mad Mullahs - TIME
 
Another of his distinctions: to have made the longest-winded speech in U.N. history, which took up two consecutive Security Council meetings. Subject: India's misdeeds.

Sir Zafarullah gave a 7 hour long speech on Kashmir in this mentioned meeting. It was a good occasion for Pakistanis.
 
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