Ahmadis in Pakistan

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ahmadi religion = Scientology version of Islam. lol

Maybe more akin to the Mormons in Christianity I would say. I don't believe many mainstream Christian denominations accept Mormons as 'Christian' since they too have some sort of a 'prophet' after Christ.

But in the US the Mormons are a very successful community (as some argue the Ahmadi's are in Pakistan) and a Mormon (Mitt Romney) served as governor of a US State (as did his father before him, of another State) and ran for President.

Ironically, the US implements more aspects of Islam, freedom of religion, no discrimination and prejudice on the basis of religion, than most Muslim countries.

 

[Nahraf]

That, typically, is what almost every faith does.

There are Christian missionaries in Pakistan and they keep low profile but they profess different religion. While Qadianis have their "latter-day prophet" and claim to have new version of Islam. That creates backlash from Muslims who consider them murtids. Qadianis neither keep low profile nor seem to understand Muslim reactions. They just keep drawing attention to themselves.

 

[Forrest Griffin]

there is always going to be a threat against them if Pakistan has outlawed their religon and in the past President Bhutto called them "kaffirs."

 

[Xeeshan]

there is always going to be a threat against them if Pakistan has outlawed their religon and in the past President Bhutto called them "kaffirs."

Naah
It wasn't only Bhutto, they were 1st given a proper analogy in Pakistani constitution by PAKISTANI PARLIAMENT. consensus is the word i guess. So what is the issue with all of you guys? Get your guys into the parliament and mold the constitution, simple! AND PLEASE DON'T MAKE FUSS HERE.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There are Christian missionaries in Pakistan and they keep low profile but they profess different religion. While Qadianis have their "latter-day prophet" and claim to have new version of Islam. That creates backlash from Muslims who consider them murtids. Qadianis neither keep low profile nor seem to understand Muslim reactions. They just keep drawing attention to themselves.

Qadianis need to do nothing - it is Muslims who need to learn to be respectful and more tolerant of another faith and properly implement the 'equality, justice and no compulsion in religion' instructions of the Quran.

It is shameful that many Muslims have degenerated to such an extent that they openly violate the Quran's commands and not only practice intolerance and discrimination, but also slander Islam by arguing that Islam orders such prejudice and discrimination.

If Christians have been forced to keep a low profile in their missionary work in Pakistan because of a threat of violence, then that is another black mark on Pakistan and Muslims and something that brings more shame on us as a nation and people.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Naah
It wasn't only Bhutto, they were 1st given a proper analogy in Pakistani constitution by PAKISTANI PARLIAMENT. consensus is the word i guess. So what is the issue with all of you guys? Get your guys into the parliament and mold the constitution, simple! AND PLEASE DON'T MAKE FUSS HERE.

Now you want to prohibit our right to speech here? Society changes with dialog and discourse over issues. The discriminatory treatment meted out to Ahmadi's in Pakistan is a major issue that brings shame upon Pakistan, Islam and Muslims, and Pakistanis need to discuss this, in the media, print, electronic, internet, in coffee shops, over family dinners - everywhere. Only through open dialog will those who oppose these black laws build up support for their position over time and eventually hopefully overturn them.

It is true that the Pakistani parliament endorsed a black law such as this, just as in the US there were equally black laws legalizing slavery and racial segregation - endorsement by parliament does not make such discrimination and prejudice acceptable or morally and ethically justifiable.

Just as laws condoning slavery and segregation were reprehensible, so are the laws openly discriminating against Ahmadis. Quite frankly the Supreme Court should strike down these laws as being contrary to the Constitution of Pakistan, since the Constitution of Pakistan proclaims to follow Islam, and Islam does not condone open prejudice and discrimination against any individual on the basis of their faith, race or social status, nor does it condone forcing ones views of faith on another, as Pakistan does with the Ahmadi's.

 

[desiman]

some amazing comments Agnostic, a pleasure to read for sure

 

[Xeeshan]

The discriminatory treatment meted out to Ahmadi's in Pakistan is a major issue that brings shame upon Pakistan, Islam and Muslims, and Pakistanis

The way you take it as a shame on Pakistanis, in precisely the same manner we (Muslims) take it as a shame if someone enounces prophecy and still goes on to live. (followers of such a kafir are not included for such a death row)

open dialog will those who oppose these black laws build up support for their position over time and eventually hopefully overturn them.

Don't term it as a black law, instead look how hard and directly do you people hit Islam and then ask to overturn any Law, we make, to curb such strike? And how could you forget that Pakistan is an Islamic republic, kaam ki nahi chalo NAAM KI TO REHNY DO.

as in the US there were equally black laws legalizing slavery and racial segregation - endorsement by parliament does not make such discrimination and prejudice acceptable or morally and ethically justifiable.Just as laws condoning slavery and segregation were reprehensible, so are the laws openly discriminating against Ahmadis

neither this law has anything to do with slavery nor racial segregation, nor do we follow US in constituting Islamic laws.

Quite frankly the Supreme Court should strike down these laws as being contrary to the Constitution of Pakistan, since the Constitution of Pakistan proclaims to follow Islam, and Islam does not condone open prejudice and discrimination against any individual on the basis of their faith, race or social status, nor does it condone forcing ones views of faith on another

I guess you will have to bring it into Supreme courts notice for any such thing to happen and then defend your stance logically.

 

[Omar1984]

Why are there Ahmadis only in the subcontinent? I never heard of an Arab Ahmadi or a Persian Ahmadi or a Turkish Ahmadi, I only met Pakistani and Indian Ahmadis.

If these Ahmadis were in Saudi Arabia they would be worse off than they are in Pakistan but Arabs wouldn't tolerate them from the start.



Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW said:

"In My Ummah, there shall be born Thirty Grand Liars (Dajjals),
each of whom will claim to be a prophet,
But I am the Last Prophet; there is No Prophet after Me."
(Abu Dawood Vol 2 p. 228; Tirmidhi Vol 2 p.45)

 

[gutto786]

LOL HOW ON EARTH, can u say that I do support Taliban, just because you din't like my comment ???? thats really stupid. I do say they are extremist and im against all their actions and yeah I consider their actions to be un-Islamic as well.

But tell me how can you say that I support Islam???

My comment on Ahmedies was not my personal opinion and on my personal opinion I consider Talibans and other extremists out of Islam.

So you think you or the pakistani assembely have been given the right to declare whose muslim and whose not muslim.....Do you know God didnt even give that right to the Holy prophet Muhammed(PBUH)!! Now go figure what Munafiqat pakistan assembely and people like you are following......No one can kick anyone out of the islamic ummah if other person claims to be a muslim(and these are the words of God not mine or not taken from "Wikipedia..your reliable source")

Traitor, as per my knowlegde
When a person follows a religion or lives in a country and does something which intersect with it, is considered a traitor.

For being a traitor one must belong to it and must go against it.

Your understanding of traitor and your level of intellect is unfortunately messed up......If your provided definition was correct then the strong multiculture countries like US, Canada and many countries in Europe would sieze to exist. As a matter of fact if we look at the christian downfall we observe that their downfall only started when they intermixed state affairs with religion and when they started to fight among each other based on their beliefs and divisions.

Pakistan of Quaid was not an extermist state run by religion.....it was a secular state run by law of islam......which unfortunately people like you will never understand becoz you were never told to respect others opinion and deal everybody with peace.

As a matter of fact, talibans evolved from pakistan only due to the fact that pakistanis have all become extremist and unjust........and these are the things highlighted by ahmadies and international media and ofcourse you dont like to be told that you are wrong becoz u were never taught to take criticism......in return you claim that ahmadies are traitors.....or even to the extent that the whole world is planning against pakistan

One last thing......Following are few things ahmadies did for pakistan:
1)Sir Chaudhary Zafarullah khan single handedly fought the case of pakistan......and quaid azam believed in him so much that he appointed him the lawyer for pakistan just few days before the case to be presented in the court of lord mountbatten
2)The only kashmir plebiscite resolution was moved and passed by UN due to Sir chaudhary zafurallah khan efforts
3)The first ever introduction of pakistan in UN was made by sir chaudhary zafarullah khan
4) In 1965 war(the only war won by pakistan with respect over india) 5 out of 6 core commanders were ahmadies
5)Dr. Abdus salam the only noble prize winner for pakistan
and the list goes on!!
oh yes one more.........
6)Furqaan force which fought for kashmiries and took part in kashmir jehad at the front forces was made by Ahmadies

God bless pakistan!! Pakistan zindabad

 

[gutto786]

In another words this thread has been created to take revenge?

@ topic

There is no second thought that the Ahmedis are Non-Muslim. It is a truth that has been accepted by all Muslims, be it from any sect but it has been declared by everybody that they are Kafir. I just watched for few minutes of the first part and its nothing but a B.S.

Ahmdies dont believe in revenge brother......and to prove me wrong just bring one incident where ahmadies initiated or promoted the politics of revenge.....

If it comes it has unfortunately always from the side of "So-called Muslims"

 

[Awesome]

YOU can believe they are non-Muslims, there is no harm in that. But the rest of the Pakistan forcing themselves to say they are non-Muslims, this puts up right up there with some apartheid state.

Nobody is saying that you agree that they are Muslims.

 

[Awesome]

Making this thread a sticky. Any and all constitutional debates on Ahmedis should be done here. Of late there are threads popping about here n there and largely its the same subject.

 

[gutto786]

Why are there Ahmadis only in the subcontinent? I never heard of an Arab Ahmadi or a Persian Ahmadi or a Turkish Ahmadi, I only met Pakistani and Indian Ahmadis.
QUOTE]

Dude its time to wake up buddy!! Ahmadies are now officially in 150+ countries and they do have mosques and community centres in Arabic countries!! I guess somebody didnt do his homework!!

 

[gutto786]

Cut the BS .
They are not Muslims, its accepted and established fact but that dosent makes them non Pakistanis.

yeah dude have u ever investigated who was a part of making that established fact!

Just a hint ......our dear(very reputeable) Dr. babar awan(fradoo) was a part of that religious legislative assembly!! Go figure

and muslims are over 2.5 billion in population througout the world.....how can u say its an established fact when this established fact is actually drafted and established by pakistan only

Logic han!!