Ahmadis in Pakistan

[MilesTogo]

Here------------

I read a few posts about the links between Christanity and Islam. Help me understand one thing why did God change his name from God to Allha?

 

[gutto786]

Can any Ahmedi answer this question: Will they switch to new prophet if in future a person declares himself a prophet.

Yes!! if the signs for his forthcoming will be proved........and that is a property of the believers......Dont you think same questions will be asked by the jews to the christians: will you guys believe when a future prophet will come.....and obviously those who were believers from the purity if their hearts they did believe the Holy prophet Muhammed(PBUH) but those who were pure from heart became Abu-Jahal

I hope that answers your question

 

[Kompromat]

I read a few posts about the links between Christanity and Islam. Help me understand one thing why did God change his name from God to Allha?

I am will send you a PM now about it .

 

[Martian]

Yes!! if the signs for his forthcoming will be proved........and that is a property of the believers......Dont you think same questions will be asked by the jews to the christians: will you guys believe when a future prophet will come.....and obviously those who were believers from the purity if their hearts they did believe the Holy prophet Muhammed(PBUH) but those who were pure from heart became Abu-Jahal

I hope that answers your question

Good to know that.

Jesus Christ was sent to Jews who did not accept him. So followers of Jesus Christ are Jews? No! Followers of Jesus Christ called themselves Christians. Similarly Muslisms acknoweldge prophethood of Jesus but dont call themselves christians.

Acceptance or rejection of a prophet is the basis for foundation of a different religion. Otherwise in all Abrahamic religions nature of one God and role of prophets is almost similar.

If Ahmedis adopt different terminology in their religious symbols other than standard Islamic terminology then there would be no conflict with orthodox Islam.

I think religous concepts should be copy right protected to discourage unauthorised versions.

 

[Kompromat]

Good to know that.

Jesus Christ was sent to Jews who did not accept him. So followers of Jesus Christ are Jews? No! Followers of Jesus Christ called themselves Christians. Similarly Muslisms acknoweldge prophethood of Jesus but dont call themselves christians.

Acceptance or rejection of a prophet is the basis for foundation of a different religion. Otherwise in all Abrahamic religions nature of one God and role of prophets is almost similar.

If Ahmedis adopt different terminology in their religious symbols other than standard Islamic terminology then there would be no conflict with orthodox Islam.

I think religous concepts should be copy right protected to discourage unauthorised versions.

Its not acceptable specially when it comes to the Lastness of Prophethood .

 

[Martian]

Black Blood

You are not getting my point. If Ahmedis dont use standard orthodox Islamic terminology then how thy will call their religion "Islam". They should follow the example of christians who have almost different terminology compared to Jews even the name of persons (Jesus, Mary, John, Moses, Aaron, etc). Christians have their Church and Jews their Synagogue.

Ahmedis should call themselves anything but a Muslim.

 

[Kompromat]

Black Blood

You are not getting my point. If Ahmedis dont use standard orthodox Islamic terminology then how thy will call their religion "Islam". They should follow the example of christians who have almost different terminology compared to Jews even the name of persons (Jesus, Mary, John, Moses, Aaron, etc). Christians have their Church and Jews their Synagogue.

Ahmedis should call themselves anything but a Muslim.

It is getting a big debate here but i firmly believe since they reject the Lastness of the Prophethood they are not Muslims anymore even according to the Constitution of Pakistan.

If they are not Muslims by law and religion they Must not call themselves Muslims neither their places of Worship should be called Mosques.

They should Bring their own Terminologies !

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Ahmedis should call themselves anything but a Muslim.

They should call themselves whatever they wish - they consider themselves Muslims - others do not have the right to force their beliefs on them and place restrictions on their speech.

 

[Kompromat]

They should call themselves whatever they wish - they consider themselves Muslims - others do not have the right to force their beliefs on them and place restrictions on their speech.

That will keep hostilities up and go for ever & thanks for using your powers to delete my post i was just trying to point out ahmadi view anything wrong with that ??.

What happened to the Freedom of Information ??

 

[Kompromat]

This message has been deleted by AgNoStIc MuSliM. Reason: discussion is not over Ahmadi theology or beliefs or whether they are Muslims or not

Now Enlighten us about what the Thread is about !

It says Qadiyanis in Pakistan which includes everything .

 

[gutto786]

Good to know that.

Jesus Christ was sent to Jews who did not accept him. So followers of Jesus Christ are Jews? No! Followers of Jesus Christ called themselves Christians. Similarly Muslisms acknoweldge prophethood of Jesus but dont call themselves christians.

Acceptance or rejection of a prophet is the basis for foundation of a different religion. Otherwise in all Abrahamic religions nature of one God and role of prophets is almost similar.

If Ahmedis adopt different terminology in their religious symbols other than standard Islamic terminology then there would be no conflict with orthodox Islam.

I think religous concepts should be copy right protected to discourage unauthorised versions.

I understand your point and I think your question and the logic you presented is very genuine.........But I dont think its a rule that the followers of every prophet has to adopt a different name becoz otherwise there would have been as many religions as the number of prophets mentioned in Quran

The problem is ......we claim to be muslims and similarly sunis, shias, wahabis all claim to be muslims but who will decide whos real muslims........a political assembely or a hidden propaganda against a sect doesnt justify anything!!

Just off the topic.....have a look at the below provided links:
1)Hazrat Hakim Al-tirmazi

khatamul awliya(page:341, specially last paragraph)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=955CLDO1

2)Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani

Maktobat Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani(page:188, specially first paragraph)
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MSK3FFC9

 

[Martian]

They should call themselves whatever they wish - they consider themselves Muslims - others do not have the right to force their beliefs on them and place restrictions on their speech.

I am not advocating that people should force their believes on others.

No body should feel ashamed of their beliefs. If their prophet was Mirza Ghulam Ahmed then they should be called as such but not as Muslims.

 

[Martian]

I understand your point and I think your question and the logic you presented is very genuine.........But I dont think its a rule that the followers of every prophet has to adopt a different name becoz otherwise there would have been as many religions as the number of prophets mentioned in Quran

The problem is ......we claim to be muslims and similarly sunis, shias, wahabis all claim to be muslims but who will decide whos real muslims........a political assembely or a hidden propaganda against a sect doesnt justify anything!!

Just off the topic.....have a look at the below provided links:
1)Hazrat Hakim Al-tirmazi

khatamul awliya(page:341, specially last paragraph)
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

2)Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani

Maktobat Hazrat Mujadid Alif Sani(page:188, specially first paragraph)
MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

Wahabis, Sunnis, Shias, Ismailis, Bohras, etc dont have additional prophet.

What are your views about Riaz Ahmad Gohar Shahi? He had also claimed Mehdi some years back. For Ahmedis, he could be genuine person to follow.

 

[Kompromat]

I am translating this article in English for our beloved Non Urdu members..

A Pakistani citizen going under medical treatment in Gangaram Hospital in Lahore Mr: Abdul Rehman said that he is the Great grandson of Mirza Ghulam ahmed qadiyani and he is the son of 3rd Qadiyani khalipha mirza Nasir.

He was talking in express news program " Point Blank " .

He stated that i read the book " Qadiyaniat and Islam" of Maulana Ahsan elahi Zaheer which provided references from the books written by Mirza .

He said after reading the book i believed that He ( my great grandfather ) is not a promised messiah nor a Prophet so i converted to Islam in 1999.

These days i am working at Bhasha dam and few days back i came to Lahore and on a Bus stop near Gangaram hospital almost 10 to 12 people came to me and asked whether i belonged to " Rabwa" ( Qadiyani town near Jhang district in Chaniot )
When i said yes , they Kidnapped me put me in the van and took me to an unknown place where they Tortured me and assuming dead threw me out of the van at the same place they had kidnapped me.

After knowing the incident Allama Ibtisaam elahi took me to the hospital .

Abdul rehman says that he was severely tortured only because of Turning to Islam and becoming a Muslim and they are pressing me to become a Qadiyani again!

Regards:

 

[Blueclub]

OK, as far as i know and pls correct me if i'm wrong that... to be a Muslim u have to believe in " la ilaha illa-Allah Muhammadun Rasulullah " that is ...There is no other God but Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) is his messenger.

Now which part of this phrase talks up the " last prophet" thing??

I'm sure there must be some other Haddit which explains Muhammad (PBUH) as the last prophet,but the above phrase which is the basic criteria for conversion into Islam doestn't .

Agreed. Here is a source from the Holy Quran, Im searching for more, as I am not a scholar in Islam so bear it with me until then.

Muhammad is not the father of any male among you, but he is the messenger of God and the seal of the prophets; and God is aware of all things (33:40).
The Arabic word for seal is khatam which by a change of vowel can also be read as khatim, meaning "that which puts the seal". Both words are derivatives of khatama, which means both to end or conclude something or to put a seal in order to indicate such an end or conclusion (see, e.g., Lisan al-'Arab, Qamus, Aqrab al-Muwarid).

*EDIT: last verse of the Qur'an declares:

Today I have completed my religion for you and perfected my favor on you and chosen al-islam as your religion (part of 5:3).

REF: http://www.themodernreligion.com/prophet/prophet_last-shafaat.html