Ah memories! :D

[lem34]

All valid points, but who will be responsible for the election results in the coming elections?

Are Pakistanis still not aware of everything you pointed out above? Will they not have gone through five years of shenanigans by the PPP led coalition at the center and the PML-N in Punjab?

Who will be to blame if the same old players get elected, and the PPP and PML-N continue to play 'musical chairs' in running Pakistan into the ground?

there is only one agency in pakistan that has the ability or resources to resolve this mess. it needs to be ruthless and get its hands bloody. dare not say it cos then we have to blame who i dont want to blame well at least in public

 

[Elmo]

what rules? wheres the articles? wheres the constitution? laws?

Hidden in a subforum away from the public eye, amended only to facilitate the status quo.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

there is only one agency in pakistan that has the ability or resources to resolve this mess. it needs to be ruthless and get its hands bloody. dare not say it cos then we have to blame who i dont want to blame well at least in public

There is an article by Sadandand Dhume in the WSJ - usually I don't find him very interesting or creative, but in this one he compared reforming Pakistan to the 'reforms and change' Indonesia underwent several decades ago. And though he did not support the half a million deaths that occurred in the process of 'cleansing Indonesia', the kind of dramatic and relatively quick reform people want may not be possible without that kind of 'cleansing of the political and feudal class' that is currently in power in Pakistan.

 

[lem34]

There is an article by Sadandand Dhume in the WSJ - usually I don't find him very interesting or creative, but in this one he compared reforming Pakistan to the 'reforms and change' Indonesia underwent several decades ago. And though he did not support the half a million deaths that occurred in the process of 'cleansing Indonesia', the kind of dramatic and relatively quick reform people want may not be possible without that kind of 'cleansing of the political and feudal class' that is currently in power in Pakistan.

I have actually put up a thread in the past and suggested that if we look at democracy as a relative concept in the philosopical sense then we can not reach nirvana without some pain. Oh and the western nations who claim they have democracy in my opinion have not reached that nirvana yet but are further down the road than we are. The french had a bloody revolution. the brits had their roundheads and royalists bloodshed before they had that dictator cromwell for a short period. Our country is not even 70 years old. Unfortunatly we did not have the Quaid around for long enough. Some countries have managed because they had a leader from independence who acted as unifying catalyst-Nelson mandela type.

You know I was excited about the potential of Mush. But in my final analysis he didnt have the balls to send hit squads after the likes of benazir a ruthless but very necessary task. He would have had to have about 500 people eliminated. God this sounds awfull. Also he would have had to do it soon after taking over. I think its very rare or difficult to get more than 10-15 good years out of an individual leader, I know it sounds awfull suggesting 500 what would have to be extra judicial killings but it would be in the interest of pakistan and its 180 mil people. We can not afford yellow or orange revolutions. We have too many external forces that would interfere. Its the only way make me and cheng joint leader for 10 years I will sort it out lol

 

[VCheng]

The problem with drastic solutions is that usually only the innocents get killed and trampled, while another set of goons takes over. Pakistani blood has been spilled very cheaply already; we do not need to spill any more.

I once used to think like this too until I realized that the power elite in Pakistan are much smarter than that. Look at their successes: they have kept their hold on power for so long already. They know how to change governments and defuse popular sentiment by a change of faces when needed, typically 7 to 10 years or so, but without any substantive changes behind the scenes.

This is needs a more clever solution.

 

[Bratva]

Vcheng, as per your sayings, you have worked in sensitive departments of Pakistan. How come when you applied for American citizenship, you haven't come under the radar of American agencies? They are much interested in People like you who can share or tell inside out of Pakistani nuclear program. Or might be this thing has already happened with you?

 

[VCheng]

Vcheng, as per your sayings, you have worked in sensitive departments of Pakistan. How come when you applied for American citizenship, you haven't come under the radar of American agencies? They are much interested in People like you who can share tell o inside out of Pakistani nuclear program. Or might be this thing has already happened with you?

Those are serious and private issues, but I can categorically state in public that I have not betrayed Pakistan in any way, and never will.

Further, when I say I love both USA and Pakistan equally, I mean it absolutely truthfully.

 

[VCheng]

Hidden in a subforum away from the public eye, amended only to facilitate the status quo.

So, in effect, just like Pakistan?

 

[lem34]

The problem with drastic solutions is that usually only the innocents get killed and trampled, while another set of goons takes over. Pakistani blood has been spilled very cheaply already; we do not need to spill any more.

I once used to think like this too until I realized that the power elite in Pakistan are much smarter than that. Look at their successes: they have kept their hold on power for so long already. They know how to change governments and defuse popular sentiment by a change of faces when needed, typically 7 to 10 years or so, but without any substantive changes behind the scenes.

This is needs a more clever solution.

dont think so. If you think there is a clever solution pray share it. We aint gonna pull an orange yellow bolloxs in pakistan. we have enemies who would tear us apart while thats going on. Why is it so drastic. Its happend everywhere else why we should be immune to it

 

[VCheng]

dont think so. If you think there is a clever solution pray share it. We aint gonna pull an orange yellow bolloxs in pakistan. we have enemies who would tear us apart while thats going on. Why is it so drastic. Its happend everywhere else why we should be immune to it

"There are no shortcuts to any place worth going." - Beverly Sills

I would support drastic changes only as a last resort, not just yet, and then only if there were a reasonable chance of real improvement.

 

[lem34]

"There are no shortcuts to any place worth going." - Beverly Sills

I would support drastic changes only as a last resort, not just yet, and then only if there were a reasonable chance of real improvement.

I think we are well past the stage of last resort.

You cant make an omelette without cracking a few eggs-old english saying lol

and it certainly wouldnt be a short cut it would take a sustained plan of a few decades at least

 

[VCheng]

I think we are well past the stage of last resort.

You cant make an omelette without cracking a few eggs-old english saying lol

Yes, but we need to get a frying pan, oil, fire, spatula and all other needed tools (whisk, bowl etc etc ) plus salt, pepper, toppings before breaking the eggs, right?

Just breaking eggs without getting ready will only make a mess, that we then have to clean up, and carry on hungry like before.

 

[lem34]

Yes, but we need to get a frying pan, oil, fire, spatula and all other needed tools (whisk, bowl etc etc ) plus salt, pepper, toppings before breaking the eggs, right?

Just breaking eggs without getting ready will only make a mess, that we then have to clean up, and carry on hungry like before.

One agency taking drastic action and less than a 1000 people eliminated for the greater good is the cleanest your gonna get mate. My point is that most if not all countries evan the most egalitarian have had to go through this pain. Its like if you want the joy of having kids the womans got to go through some pain. Dont you love it that we are not women lol

 

[VCheng]

One agency taking drastic action and less than a 1000 people eliminated for the greater good is the cleanest your gonna get mate. My point is that most if not all countries evan the most egalitarian have had to go through this pain. Its like if you want the joy of having kids the womans got to go through some pain. Dont you love it that we are not women lol

The risk will be that one agency will become a tyrant in its own right.

BTW, how can you assume I am a male?

 

[lem34]

The risk will be that one agency will become a tyrant in its own right.

BTW, how can you assume I am a male?

I can tell only we men can talk so much bullshiz. Anyway your posts woul be more like elmos lol No seriously we need a comiittee but yea I accept absolute power corrupts. But most current democracies have gone thru it. Spain turkey, uk france etc

Maybe we can get lucky 5th time of trying lol