Ah-64E and Karachi .Need to think about Pakistan Army Navy and Air Force Performance of the Past .

[Gallium Nitride]

What a joke is this anyway. AH-64 doing penetration role?

 

[syed zia Hassan]

Ok..point by point


Yes, the Americans have their own interest and agenda. Currently, their agendas are in line with those of India's and not ours. So they will support India instead of us. That still does not mean that they will overtly facilitate India in any ground war with Pakistan.


I think India has Su-30 and Su-27. But yes India is building up its armed forces. So are we. Albeit in a slow fashion due to less money in our pocket.


No it is not. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.


This task is easier said that done. I do not have time to explain here but read up a little on international affairs and you might get the right idea.


So what if Indians have been training along side the Us. So have we been during the past decade. Our forces have been going to US for training for far longer duration than India's. Both the armed forces know of each other's capabilities and both have planned to take care of that accordingly. As far as operations by Air craft carriers, it will take far greater resources for India to make that kind of attack on Pakistan's coastal areas. Right now, they do not have such resources to carry out such an attack without significant losses to their own fleet. Pak has enacted a number of counter measures to keep the Indian Navy at bay.


I agree with you that the coastal areas of Sindh and Karachi remain vulnerable. But, there is increased focus on modernization of PN. We have recently signed with the Chinese to purchase 8 submarines. Further, we are buying corvettes and frigates from Turkey and China. Also, our SAM capabilities are getting updated gradually. So we are not sleeping but the pace of the project is relatively slow.
And finally, to ensure that Karachi is not the only outlet for trade, we are developing Gawadar which will ensure that Pak's sea lines remain open.

My dear brother, your main points regarding the insecurity of Sindh coastal region and hostile foreign agencies involvement in CPEC are very relative. However, you need to write your rants in a coherent manner. Something the rest of people on this forum can understand easily. Your main point is so shrouded in nonsensical rants that no one pays any attention to it. Please, write your thoughts in good grammar English and not SMS type English.

Thanks a lot I will do it as you say thanks

 

[waz]

Having spoken to several Apache pilots regarding this, they all stated (Dutch, British and American) it would be utter madness to use their machines against an enemy that has stocks of hundreds , even thousands of anti-air missiles. I'm not just talking about the shoulder fired versions but those linked with portable radars that have stand-off ranges greater than the longbow radar, which are numerous to find. They said themselves they would operate them under the cover of near total air supremacy, to avoid the nasty AA missiles which the airforce would deal with.

Well no, not initially I doubt we will send off our Apaches and tank brigades just like that.
I am guessing IAF will have to come first and clear of pakistani SAM units with a barrage of long range Anti Radiation missiles like the Kh-31s and Kh-58s.
DRDO is also developing NGARM.

Plus the Apache does fly quite high and quite fast, I'd say it stands a decent chance against most pakistani MANPADs and SAMs.

If pakistan acquires HQ-9s, now that might complicate things.

You are right about the fact that current Indian anti-radiation missiles do outrange any defensive measures Pakistan has, hence why the HQ-9 is being negotiated for. That will then enable Pakistan to target IAF craft over Indian air space.

 

[HAIDER]

Helicopter is only good for counter insurgency or back up ground force. Plus, Pak India border is full of electronic firewalls . Ah64 can t do anything , So, don t worry Pakistan has lot of these alert 24 7

Number of Ah-64D downed by enemy fire from '05-'10. Not including losses from non-combat sources:

2005: 27 June – An AH-64D Apache from 3–3rd Aviation Regiment is shot down by a shoulder-fired missile near Mishahda, killing the two pilots 2006: 16 January – AH-64D Apache 03-5385 from B Company, 1–4th Aviation Regiment shot down north of Baghdad, killing the two pilots. 1 April – AH-64D Apache from 4–4th Aviation Regiment shot down southwest of Baghdad, killing the two crewmen. 13 July – AH-64D Apache from 4–4th Aviation Regiment shot down south of Baghdad. The two pilots survive 2007: 28 January – AH-64D Apache from 4th Battalion, 227th Aviation Regiment, 1st Air Cavalry Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division shot down by hostile fire during the Battle of Najaf, killing the two pilots 2 February – AH-64D Apache 02-5337 from A Company, 1st Battalion, 227th Aviation Regiment, 1st Air Cavalry Brigade, 1st Cavalry Division shot down by a combination of gunfire and a shoulder-fired missile, near Taji, killing the two pilots 31 July – An AH-64 Apache goes down after coming under fire in eastern Baghdad. The two crew members were safely extracted

2008, 2009, 2010 - no Ah64s lost to hostile fire.

 

[GriffinsRule]

Helicopter is only good for counter insurgency or back up ground force. Plus, Pak India border is full of electronic firewalls . Ah64 can t do anything , So, don t worry Pakistan has lot of these alert 24 7

You know what is not a real video right? Its either from a video game or a CGI.

 

[Signalian]

in Kargil War India Air force Mig-21s shot down Pakistan Navy Atlantic and killing 16 persons on board. and how quick counter by Pakistani All Forces. Its really high Question Mark ? you all respectable members very well known about that.. According to that Area Run of Kutch along with Sindh and Indian Border just 278 Km Away from Karachi cost ... View attachment 460355 Sindh is very week area to defend .Navy can not Cover the all Sea Area. Indian Navy is much more Powerful then Pakistan Navy its not a new talk ..but Pakistan is now not a condition to face with regular Machines. be realistic India Got very huge Advantage of the war of terrorism. Pakistan loss of Humen life which are not replaced and also loss everything.fund relations and build up huge unsuitability. My point is simple, U.S.A give everything to India now .. What Pakistan replies in that matter. China is only support to Pakistan. but its not a war time its time to Balance the situation ..like 1983 Pakistan Got F-16s for Afghan War and India worry for the long time and still worry for F-16s and its pilots. so time change now. forget Nuclear facilities. its give nothing and use less ..Pakistan not control the Load shading of Electricity. why spend billions of $ ...People of Pakistan live in dreams. not need to attack by Nuclear by any country its just a threat policy. Regular weapons is much need to balance between two fools countries. They forget the basic necessary to provide their nations and spend $ to weapons ..that foreign policy to sale weapons ...... any how Where Pakistan is Stand now .. when Pakistan believe and trust their own LEGs? New Generation make everything Just spend $ to them and see the result .. Please dont say that we can not do that because of IMF policy... Its hard time of Pakistan ..is that any Way to Recover their souls

One type of weapon (AH-64E) cannot on its own fly in Pakistan's airspace and damage assets at Rann of Kutch and Karachi. There are a few PAF bases covering this area, with two squadrons equipped with F-16's and one with JF-17.These aircrafts can provide good air cover in Pakistani skies. Instead of India sending in AH-64E in this area, the Brahmos missile or other cruise missiles are a better option. An IAF air strike could also be an option apart from Indian Naval weaponry.

An air assault Ops by Indian Army could be an option but that would require a great deal of assets from the IAF and IN for air superiority, support and logistics to hold the captured ground.

India has an amphibious Infantry brigade which is suited for an assault role on Rann of Kutch area and around it. The Pakistani defences in this region are Marines who are handful in number and dont operate heavy armor vehicles at all or any other heavy vehicles. The fire power of AH-64E can be utilized in other sectors where there are chances of a Pakistani Armor assault with MBT's and APC, such as desert and semi-desert regions.

 

[LeGenD]

What a joke is this anyway. AH-64 doing penetration role?

Americans utilized two AH-64D Apache gunships to infiltrate and neutralize two Pakistan Army posts in the Salala region in 2011 under the cover of darkness. The gunships benefitted from their superior night-vision capabilities during the operation.

Pakistani troops were alert and utilized AA guns to fight off the Americans but lost. The fight lasted 2 hours in total.

India might be drawing inspiration from Salala incident. If they are to utilize their gunships for infiltration, they might do so under the cover of darkness much like the Americans. However, Indians might not be as skillful.

 

[HAIDER]

Americans utilized two AH-64D Apache gunships to infiltrate and neutralize two Pakistan Army posts in the Salala region in 2011 under the cover of darkness. The gunships benefitted from their superior night-vision capabilities during the operation.

Pakistan Army was alert and utilized AA guns to fight off the Americans but lost. The fight lasted 2 hours.

Perhaps India is drawing inspiration from Salala incident.

Salala attack formation was C130E ,F15 and 3rd line was AH64. C130 played major role to strike the post.

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[Gallium Nitride]

Americans utilized two AH-64D Apache gunships to infiltrate and neutralize two Pakistan Army posts in the Salala region in 2011 under the cover of darkness. The gunships benefitted from their superior night-vision capabilities during the operation.

Pakistani troops were alert and utilized AA guns to fight off the Americans but lost. The fight lasted 2 hours in total.

India might be drawing inspiration from Salala incident. If they are to utilize their gunships for infiltration, they might do so under the cover of darkness much like the Americans. However, Indians might not be as skillful.

It's mainly Karachi, how can they even get near before getting shot by PAF, common sense duhhh. And choppers never do Deep penetration strikes this is a job of Fighter Aircraft

 

[LeGenD]

Salala attack formation was C130E ,F15 and 3rd line was AH64. C130 played major role to strike the post.

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Bro,

Let us be realistic. A fight with an AC-130 doesn't last 2 hours; it will be over in minutes.

USAF might be involved in some capacity but Apache gunships infiltrated Pakistani airspace to do their dirty work per most accounts.

 

[My-Analogous]

in Kargil War India Air force Mig-21s shot down Pakistan Navy Atlantic and killing 16 persons on board. and how quick counter by Pakistani All Forces. Its really high Question Mark ? you all respectable members very well known about that.. According to that Area Run of Kutch along with Sindh and Indian Border just 278 Km Away from Karachi cost ... View attachment 460355 Sindh is very week area to defend .Navy can not Cover the all Sea Area. Indian Navy is much more Powerful then Pakistan Navy its not a new talk ..but Pakistan is now not a condition to face with regular Machines. be realistic India Got very huge Advantage of the war of terrorism. Pakistan loss of Humen life which are not replaced and also loss everything.fund relations and build up huge unsuitability. My point is simple, U.S.A give everything to India now .. What Pakistan replies in that matter. China is only support to Pakistan. but its not a war time its time to Balance the situation ..like 1983 Pakistan Got F-16s for Afghan War and India worry for the long time and still worry for F-16s and its pilots. so time change now. forget Nuclear facilities. its give nothing and use less ..Pakistan not control the Load shading of Electricity. why spend billions of $ ...People of Pakistan live in dreams. not need to attack by Nuclear by any country its just a threat policy. Regular weapons is much need to balance between two fools countries. They forget the basic necessary to provide their nations and spend $ to weapons ..that foreign policy to sale weapons ...... any how Where Pakistan is Stand now .. when Pakistan believe and trust their own LEGs? New Generation make everything Just spend $ to them and see the result .. Please dont say that we can not do that because of IMF policy... Its hard time of Pakistan ..is that any Way to Recover their souls

First of all welcome aboard and second thing, KEEP WRITING and it will increase your writing skills. Now come to the point. I think you have some very valid points and yes we need to address on those terms as well.

 

[Arsalan 345]

in Kargil War India Air force Mig-21s shot down Pakistan Navy Atlantic and killing 16 persons on board. and how quick counter by Pakistani All Forces. Its really high Question Mark ? you all respectable members very well known about that.. According to that Area Run of Kutch along with Sindh and Indian Border just 278 Km Away from Karachi cost ... View attachment 460355 Sindh is very week area to defend .Navy can not Cover the all Sea Area. Indian Navy is much more Powerful then Pakistan Navy its not a new talk ..but Pakistan is now not a condition to face with regular Machines. be realistic India Got very huge Advantage of the war of terrorism. Pakistan loss of Humen life which are not replaced and also loss everything.fund relations and build up huge unsuitability. My point is simple, U.S.A give everything to India now .. What Pakistan replies in that matter. China is only support to Pakistan. but its not a war time its time to Balance the situation ..like 1983 Pakistan Got F-16s for Afghan War and India worry for the long time and still worry for F-16s and its pilots. so time change now. forget Nuclear facilities. its give nothing and use less ..Pakistan not control the Load shading of Electricity. why spend billions of $ ...People of Pakistan live in dreams. not need to attack by Nuclear by any country its just a threat policy. Regular weapons is much need to balance between two fools countries. They forget the basic necessary to provide their nations and spend $ to weapons ..that foreign policy to sale weapons ...... any how Where Pakistan is Stand now .. when Pakistan believe and trust their own LEGs? New Generation make everything Just spend $ to them and see the result .. Please dont say that we can not do that because of IMF policy... Its hard time of Pakistan ..is that any Way to Recover their souls

remember pakistan army is now facing war on it's own borders and they are now more trained than any other army because the regions where pakistan army is fighting includes valleys,mountain regions.it's very difficult to fight in this kind of regions.army proved to this nation that it will defend pakistan.i can understand your concerns.pakistan nuclear missile threat isn't a bluff.indians think that it's a bluff.pakistan is changing it's missile parameters on regular basis and there are lots of missile versions.some of the properties can't be made public because it will alert our enemy and they are already trying to create umbrella of missile defense systems.remember no missile defense system can save a city.if you fire 15 cruise missiles,it's likely that 10 will be hit before impact but 5 will eventually made it to the target.pakistani cruise missile technology is far superior than india.also forget about past.forget atlantique incident.yes we have no electricty but army isn't responsible for load shedding.it's your government so kindly give vote to educated people only.we lost lots of soldiers in war against terrorism but remember this problem will remain intact until afghanistan becomes stable and stability in afghanistan is associated with the withdrawal of american forces and rise of talibans.

 

[MastanKhan]

Salala attack formation was C130E ,F15 and 3rd line was AH64. C130 played major role to strike the post.

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Hi,

If the pak military had a a few shoulder launched sams---the picture would have been much different---.

 

[WaLeEdK2]

Hi,

If the pak military had a a few shoulder launched sams---the picture would have been much different---.

Anza's aren't shoulder launched?

 

[MastanKhan]

Anza's aren't shoulder launched?

Son,

If pak military had a couple of shoulder launched sams at SALALA checkpost---things would have been different---.