Ah-64E and Karachi .Need to think about Pakistan Army Navy and Air Force Performance of the Past .

[YeBeWarned]

ANZA mark 3 ...

 

[SQ8]

I think India’s release of Padmavat was in connection with sabotaging CPEC and creating market for developing Tejas Mk.3 which in turn effects the tomato market that is a direct attack on our culture. This cultureless youth will then be unable to protect Kahuta and will lead to US embargo on Takti tablet hence preventing us from developing ICBM.

My thoughts on all threads by OP.
Please clear your thought process by really reading into what issues you want to discuss before creating threads which besides being incomprehensible in terms of language are also disjointed and confused in representing any logical connection between the ideas they try to link.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

Relax dude, AH-64 is just a gunship helicopter to be used on battlefield not designed to attack cities.
It's known to have been put out of action by a just a well aimed burst from an AK-47 Rifle.

That's rather disingenuous, you are taking the exception to the rule as the deciding factor and not the whole range of events.
How many times were Apaches downed by ak rounds compared to say by SAMs?

Firstly, no, its not invincible but it was 'being in a hostile territory and a barrage of AK rounds' that brought it down and not just a few.

Secondly, those were either AH-64As & Ds.
What India is getting are Es or Guardians.
Which field better and more powerful engines resulting in more speed, payload and rate of climb.
Better sensors, avionics and other electronics, composite rotor blades, boron carbide armour, UAV control, IR suppression exhausts, Longbow radar among other things.

Lastly, I don't think PA will have the luxury of fighting 1 Apache at a time.
Apaches will come alongside mobile SAM units, tank brigades, ICVs, and tank destroyers.

 

[Windjammer]

That's rather disingenuous, you are taking the exception to the rule as the deciding factor and not the whole range of events.
How many times were Apaches downed by ak rounds compared to say by SAMs?

Firstly, no, its not invincible but it was 'being in a hostile territory and a barrage of AK rounds' that brought it down and not just a few.

Secondly, those were either AH-64As & Ds.
What India is getting are Es or Guardians.
Which field better and more powerful engines resulting in more speed, payload and rate of climb.
Better sensors, avionics and other electronics, composite rotor blades, boron carbide armour, UAV control, IR suppression exhausts, Longbow radar among other things.

Lastly, I don't think PA will have the luxury of fighting 1 Apache at a time.
Apaches will come alongside mobile SAM units, tank brigades, ICVs, and tank destroyers.

Firstly read the highlighted in my post and comprehend what i said.....it doesn't apply that every second Apache was shot down with an AK-47.....and whatever it incorporates or comes in as a package, the last thing PA will use against them is some assault rifle.

Relax dude, AH-64 is just a gunship helicopter to be used on battlefield not designed to attack cities.It's known to have been put out of action by a just a well aimed burst from an AK-47 Rifle.
I

 

[araz]

combat radius of AH64D is 263 nm. Karachi is 174KM from the nearest Indian border. So figure it out yourself. a round trip will be of approx 348KM from the nearest Indian border. An Apache can not make that long a round trip on a combat load.

So now you can sleep easy at night!!!

Bro you need to start making some sense to your thinking. Put some logic behind your questions and observations my friend.

Naa! But what about if the Indians put Conformal fuel tanks on their Apaches.They can then reach Karachi and wreak havoc‍‍‍. I have been on the reciving end of 3 or 4 of these "are this or that a threat to Pakistan!" I mean come on!!!!! in a war everything if used properly is going to be a threat to Pakistan. But in a war where Helicopters are fighting other helicopters and God knows what else, we might as well get Nawaz Shareef and Modi fight a Dangal and winner takes all. The only problem with that is Ganja Shareef will take a back hander from Modi and probably lose!
Man Iam getting tired of this bull crap.
Sorry for the rant and it is not directed at anyone! So please dont take afront.
A

 

[Basel]

combat radius of AH64D is 263 nm. Karachi is 174KM from the nearest Indian border. So figure it out yourself. a round trip will be of approx 348KM from the nearest Indian border. An Apache can not make that long a round trip on a combat load.

So now you can sleep easy at night!!!

Bro you need to start making some sense to your thinking. Put some logic behind your questions and observations my friend.

In Indo-Pak future war any attacking bird will have to face multiple layers of air defense even if PAF is not their to protect so it's not as easy as many post here.

That's rather disingenuous, you are taking the exception to the rule as the deciding factor and not the whole range of events.
How many times were Apaches downed by ak rounds compared to say by SAMs?

Firstly, no, its not invincible but it was 'being in a hostile territory and a barrage of AK rounds' that brought it down and not just a few.

Secondly, those were either AH-64As & Ds.
What India is getting are Es or Guardians.
Which field better and more powerful engines resulting in more speed, payload and rate of climb.
Better sensors, avionics and other electronics, composite rotor blades, boron carbide armour, UAV control, IR suppression exhausts, Longbow radar among other things.

Lastly, I don't think PA will have the luxury of fighting 1 Apache at a time.
Apaches will come alongside mobile SAM units, tank brigades, ICVs, and tank destroyers.

PA have good stock of MANPADS, they have RBS-70 & other MANPADS with AAAs mounted on APCs, they have radar/IR guided 35mm rapid fire AAAs with AHEAD round capabilities, also they have FM-90s SR-SAMs with 15km range, they also have LY-80E 40km range SAM and you think Apache can penetrate that??

 

[CHI RULES]

In Indo-Pak future war any attacking bird will have to face multiple layers of air defense even if PAF is not their to protect so it's not as easy as many post here.



PA have good stock of MANPADS, they have RBS-70 & other MANPADS with AAAs mounted on APCs, they have radar/IR guided 35mm rapid fire AAAs with AHEAD round capabilities, also they have FM-90s SR-SAMs with 15km range, they also have LY-80E 40km range SAM and you think Apache can penetrate that??

Sir can't comment on RBS70 but don't u think Anza and older man pads shall be not so effective against defenses of Apache, similarly FM90 and LY80 are also available in limited numbers. The main threat for Apache shall be from rapid fire guns.
Due increased air threats PA should improve numbers of capable short to medium range SAMs, as well as latest Man pads at least from China should be acquired along with domestic production. The mobile SAM/AAA guns are need of hour for PA.

 

[Lucky Breeze]

Please make a habit of reading the actual stuff and develop an understanding of the issue.
You carelessly follow an indian troll and expose yourself.

 

[MimophantSlayer]

In Indo-Pak future war any attacking bird will have to face multiple layers of air defense even if PAF is not their to protect so it's not as easy as many post here.



PA have good stock of MANPADS, they have RBS-70 & other MANPADS with AAAs mounted on APCs, they have radar/IR guided 35mm rapid fire AAAs with AHEAD round capabilities, also they have FM-90s SR-SAMs with 15km range, they also have LY-80E 40km range SAM and you think Apache can penetrate that??

Well no, not initially I doubt we will send off our Apaches and tank brigades just like that.
I am guessing IAF will have to come first and clear of pakistani SAM units with a barrage of long range Anti Radiation missiles like the Kh-31s and Kh-58s.
DRDO is also developing NGARM.

Plus the Apache does fly quite high and quite fast, I'd say it stands a decent chance against most pakistani MANPADs and SAMs.

If pakistan acquires HQ-9s, now that might complicate things.

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Just deploy batteries of HQ-16 it will take care of AH-64E

 

[syed zia Hassan]

India are completely in U.S.A hands and Indian people are crying and say Americans are not friend they just love their own benefits. They leave you in the middle of hard time as well as Pakistan .. but Indian Govt not understand that. Indian and Russian are change their Aircrafts now Start of the Art Su27 and Mig 29s change the history now they build world class machine. Americans are worry about that ..Su-35 is better then F-22s . any in that time Pakistan need and its time to shake Hands with Russia it good to us and our further Business. Ok go to the point … India Forces are join U.S.A training camps and U.S method of strikes will be used in coming any war by India.. for Example they don’t need to fly Ah-64E , they carry on Air craft Carriers and Attack. With help of Mig-29 and Sea Harriers, I am try to explain the conscious. Sindh and its costal area is very weak point easy to access and India Government now in very aggressive mode .. because of U.S Help them and fully try to stop China devolvement in Baluchistan. The Main point is that .

 

[Arsalan]

I think India’s release of Padmavat was in connection with sabotaging CPEC and creating market for developing Tejas Mk.3 which in turn effects the tomato market that is a direct attack on our culture. This cultureless youth will then be unable to protect Kahuta and will lead to US embargo on Takti tablet hence preventing us from developing ICBM.
View attachment 460501

Chappli Kabab!!
You forget the serious issue of Chappli Kababs man!

 

[Inception-06]

India are completely in U.S.A hands and Indian people are crying and say Americans are not friend they just love their own benefits. They leave you in the middle of hard time as well as Pakistan .. but Indian Govt not understand that. Indian and Russian are change their Aircrafts now Start of the Art Su27 and Mig 29s change the history now they build world class machine. Americans are worry about that ..Su-35 is better then F-22s . any in that time Pakistan need and its time to shake Hands with Russia it good to us and our further Business. Ok go to the point … India Forces are join U.S.A training camps and U.S method of strikes will be used in coming any war by India.. for Example they don’t need to fly Ah-64E , they carry on Air craft Carriers and Attack. With help of Mig-29 and Sea Harriers, I am try to explain the conscious. Sindh and its costal area is very weak point easy to access and India Government now in very aggressive mode .. because of U.S Help them and fully try to stop China devolvement in Baluchistan. The Main point is that .

Did you even study our low-level air defence before you posted this mystic verses?

Pakistan Army has very strong AA and SAM belt along the Pak-Indo border. Experience in the Vietnam War have shown that all anti-aircraft guns are particularly effective against low-flying target at altitudes between 450m and 4000m. When used in groups, the weapon could provide not only intensive anti-aircraft firepower but also violent psychological effects on Helicopter and aviation crews to reduce their effectiveness.

When the enemy aircraft/Helicopter has passed the PAF, the long-range SAM and even the close air defence than using the MG-3 or the 12.7mm AA Gun in air defence role is the last option and a must to survive!

MG-3 Effective range 1000m

The MG-3 spread all over Sindh operational in every unit.

12.7mm AA Gun Dushk Effective range 1000m-1500m
It starts from the 12.7mm AA which is present in every post, bunker, infantry unit, APC and Tank. I guess ca. 1000 active guns of this type will be present alone in the Sindh war theatre. A very dangerous tool of war against low flying Helicopter, all post wars have proven that.

Type 56 (Chinese ZPU-4 copy) effective range 1500m-2000m
In firing position, the towed 14.5mm anti-aircraft gun is lowered onto firing jacks. It can be brought in and out of action in about 15 to 20 seconds and can be fired with the wheels in the travelling position if needed. The series was used during the Korean War by Chinese and North Korean forces and was later considered to be the most dangerous opposition to U.S. helicopters in Vietnam. In Sindh may be ca. 50 of this System might be in operational conditions.

Type 74 37mm AA Gun Effective firing range 1,5km-4 km


Pakistani army air defence forces use now an upgrade version of the Chinese-made twin-barreled 37mm anti-aircraft guns which can work in fully autonomous mode connected to laser aiming and trajectory ballistic computer by the fire-control unit consisting of an electro-optical director and a target searching radar. This enables the weapon to operate under day/night, all-weather conditions.The Laser aiming sight LAS786P provides azimuth, elevation and range of a target up to 10km, while the computer TBC789P receives data from the laser aiming sight, computes the trajectory of a moving target and predict the future position of the target. In Sindh alone Pakistan Army might have stationed ca. 500 Guns of this type.

The Oerlikon GDF or Oerlikon 35 mm twin cannon,Effective firing range ca. 4km, Pakistan operates ca. 150 Units (including the Chinese copy of GDF gun) in Sindh.


Chinese 57 mm Anti-Aircraft Gun 1km-6km Effective firing range, Pakistan has ca. 300 units operational in Sindh alone.

Than the low level SAM Belt:

ca. 300 Mistral units

ca. 200 FN-6 Units

ca. 100-150 RBS-70 Units

ca. 400 Anza MK-2 Units

ca. 50 Stinger Units


Any Indian Apache adventure will face a deep camouflaged, well trained and protected low-level air defence network positions of ca. 1000 SAM Manpads and ca. 1000 AA guns (combination of all AA guns, excluding the 12.7mm and MG.3) manned by highly motivated and very well trained Pakistani air defence crews.
I have not mentioned the SA-2 HQ-2B Black Arrow, Crotale, FM-90, Spada, HQ-16 and the Pakistani air Force.

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Ok..point by point

India are completely in U.S.A hands and Indian people are crying and say Americans are not friend they just love their own benefits. They leave you in the middle of hard time as well as Pakistan .. but Indian Govt not understand that

Yes, the Americans have their own interest and agenda. Currently, their agendas are in line with those of India's and not ours. So they will support India instead of us. That still does not mean that they will overtly facilitate India in any ground war with Pakistan.

Indian and Russian are change their Aircrafts now Start of the Art Su27 and Mig 29s change the history now they build world class machine.

I think India has Su-30 and Su-27. But yes India is building up its armed forces. So are we. Albeit in a slow fashion due to less money in our pocket.

Americans are worry about that ..Su-35 is better then F-22s .

No it is not. Don't believe anyone who says otherwise.

any in that time Pakistan need and its time to shake Hands with Russia it good to us and our further Business. Ok go to the point

This task is easier said that done. I do not have time to explain here but read up a little on international affairs and you might get the right idea.

Ok go to the point … India Forces are join U.S.A training camps and U.S method of strikes will be used in coming any war by India.. for Example they don’t need to fly Ah-64E , they carry on Air craft Carriers and Attack. With help of Mig-29 and Sea Harriers, I am try to explain the conscious.

So what if Indians have been training along side the Us. So have we been during the past decade. Our forces have been going to US for training for far longer duration than India's. Both the armed forces know of each other's capabilities and both have planned to take care of that accordingly. As far as operations by Air craft carriers, it will take far greater resources for India to make that kind of attack on Pakistan's coastal areas. Right now, they do not have such resources to carry out such an attack without significant losses to their own fleet. Pak has enacted a number of counter measures to keep the Indian Navy at bay.

indh and its costal area is very weak point easy to access and India Government now in very aggressive mode .. because of U.S Help them and fully try to stop China devolvement in Baluchistan. The Main point is that .

I agree with you that the coastal areas of Sindh and Karachi remain vulnerable. But, there is increased focus on modernization of PN. We have recently signed with the Chinese to purchase 8 submarines. Further, we are buying corvettes and frigates from Turkey and China. Also, our SAM capabilities are getting updated gradually. So we are not sleeping but the pace of the project is relatively slow.
And finally, to ensure that Karachi is not the only outlet for trade, we are developing Gawadar which will ensure that Pak's sea lines remain open.

My dear brother, your main points regarding the insecurity of Sindh coastal region and hostile foreign agencies involvement in CPEC are very relative. However, you need to write your rants in a coherent manner. Something the rest of people on this forum can understand easily. Your main point is so shrouded in nonsensical rants that no one pays any attention to it. Please, write your thoughts in good grammar English and not SMS type English.

 

[Basel]

Sir can't comment on RBS70 but don't u think Anza and older man pads shall be not so effective against defenses of Apache, similarly FM90 and LY80 are also available in limited numbers. The main threat for Apache shall be from rapid fire guns.
Due increased air threats PA should improve numbers of capable short to medium range SAMs, as well as latest Man pads at least from China should be acquired along with domestic production. The mobile SAM/AAA guns are need of hour for PA.

PA have enough MANPADS (if deployed) can overwhelm AH-64 defenses In battle field and they will be supported by various type of AAAs at least.

Well no, not initially I doubt we will send off our Apaches and tank brigades just like that.
I am guessing IAF will have to come first and clear of pakistani SAM units with a barrage of long range Anti Radiation missiles like the Kh-31s and Kh-58s.
DRDO is also developing NGARM.

Plus the Apache does fly quite high and quite fast, I'd say it stands a decent chance against most pakistani MANPADs and SAMs.

If pakistan acquires HQ-9s, now that might complicate things.

FM-90 of PA can work without radar if needed but its radar is not easy to track as its AESA.