After French what further options does Pakistan Airforce can excercise.?

[araz]

Sir Parvez Shamim, former PAF pilot and also a senior member here on this forum, presented his thoughts on Pakdef Forum regarding French attitude. Very interesting indeed !!!

"I had a conversation with a senior retired PAF officer about this fiasco with France. Unbelievingly, I found that many are relieved that the deal did not go through. PAC was expected to produce 400 JF-17 and the cost of electronics and weapons for each copy was fixed at $15 million a copy, a very high price to pay in the view of many in PAF. Incidently, there are question as to why ATE was awarded the contract. ATE is basically an integrator who does not manufacture anything but buys systems from different suppliers and integarate them. There was never a need for a contractor to purchase and then integrate when suppliers could easily do the job since they already have the experience with other French avionics and weapons.

Incidently, ATE was formed by a former engineer with Dassault named Jean-Paul Pizano. He left the company and set up ATE in 1986 to work on Pakistani Mirages.

French are more like the prostitutes who do not have a fixed rate but will go where they expect to earn more. Indians have interested them with future phantom deals like Nuclear and military-s like 6 more Scorpions (Incidently the first six due to be delivered in 2012 will now be delivered by 2017) Reason is the usual overpricing-now almost $600 million more after the contract was already signed. Even this deal is not sure to be made by the French. Other deals may require Air Bus tankers, Eurocopters etc. But believe me French will not come ahead with Indians. They have to compete with every one as compared to the JF-17 avionics project where they had no competition. Even their big hope of Rafael being picked by Indians is almost dead according to my sources in PAF. That is another reason that they are now desparate. If India does not buy the aircrafts, what effect it will have on its deal with UAE.

This french decision also indicates that The submarine deal for Pak. Navy may not be forthcoming for Frencg too. That certainly is a good news if turns out to be that way.
Pakistan could easily make an investment of few hundred million with Chinese and develop the avionics. Pakistan had a headstart and could avail the last 5 years that it has been negotiating with the French to no avail in the end. I am told that there is no truth to the rumor that there is a problem with the KLJ-7. On the contrary, ith can not only be integrated with SD-10 but also the Western Sidewinder and the Sparrows. PAF and Chinese can also increase the range of the SD-10 easily if PAF wants and allowed to. Result will be a lower production cost and a higher profit realization- many times more than the actual development investment


Afeter my conversation, I feel more confident that the French exclusion from JF-17 project will turn out be moch more beneficial for PAF. As some one said, PAF has other contingency plans. I am confident we may hear about them soon. I do not feel disappointed any more."

After reading this, all my concerns are gone.

Damn
You beat me to it. Anyways good work. This does amke an interesting read.It seems that forces external to PAF had this planned out. So PAF has had its day.I think it is possible that PAF will bide its time and get the avioinics after a little time when the french have had a reality check, or we may go other ways. Personally the impression that the current setup is happy with the avionics of chinese origin is a good piece of news to hear. As to the rest, it is the french's loss as well.
Araz

 

[karan.1970]

Sir Parvez Shamim, former PAF pilot and also a senior member here on this forum, presented his thoughts on Pakdef Forum regarding French attitude. Very interesting indeed !!!

"I had a conversation with a senior retired PAF officer about this fiasco with France. Unbelievingly, I found that many are relieved that the deal did not go through. PAC was expected to produce 400 JF-17 and the cost of electronics and weapons for each copy was fixed at $15 million a copy, a very high price to pay in the view of many in PAF. Incidently, there are question as to why ATE was awarded the contract. ATE is basically an integrator who does not manufacture anything but buys systems from different suppliers and integarate them. There was never a need for a contractor to purchase and then integrate when suppliers could easily do the job since they already have the experience with other French avionics and weapons.

Incidently, ATE was formed by a former engineer with Dassault named Jean-Paul Pizano. He left the company and set up ATE in 1986 to work on Pakistani Mirages.

French are more like the prostitutes who do not have a fixed rate but will go where they expect to earn more. Indians have interested them with future phantom deals like Nuclear and military-s like 6 more Scorpions (Incidently the first six due to be delivered in 2012 will now be delivered by 2017) Reason is the usual overpricing-now almost $600 million more after the contract was already signed. Even this deal is not sure to be made by the French. Other deals may require Air Bus tankers, Eurocopters etc. But believe me French will not come ahead with Indians. They have to compete with every one as compared to the JF-17 avionics project where they had no competition. Even their big hope of Rafael being picked by Indians is almost dead according to my sources in PAF. That is another reason that they are now desparate. If India does not buy the aircrafts, what effect it will have on its deal with UAE.

This french decision also indicates that The submarine deal for Pak. Navy may not be forthcoming for Frencg too. That certainly is a good news if turns out to be that way.
Pakistan could easily make an investment of few hundred million with Chinese and develop the avionics. Pakistan had a headstart and could avail the last 5 years that it has been negotiating with the French to no avail in the end. I am told that there is no truth to the rumor that there is a problem with the KLJ-7. On the contrary, ith can not only be integrated with SD-10 but also the Western Sidewinder and the Sparrows. PAF and Chinese can also increase the range of the SD-10 easily if PAF wants and allowed to. Result will be a lower production cost and a higher profit realization- many times more than the actual development investment


Afeter my conversation, I feel more confident that the French exclusion from JF-17 project will turn out be moch more beneficial for PAF. As some one said, PAF has other contingency plans. I am confident we may hear about them soon. I do not feel disappointed any more."

After reading this, all my concerns are gone.

Good read.. However its a little interesting on how all these logics come out after the deal goes south and never before. Ideally these logics should be the reason for cancelling a deal and not the result of a cancellation.. No?

 

[IceCold]

Good read.. However its a little interesting on how all these logics come out after the deal goes south and never before. Ideally these logics should be the reason for cancelling a deal and not the result of a cancellation.. No?

You know as much as i hate saying it but to me it seems like what we say in urdu"angoor Khatta hain". But then again there are people in the establishment who wanted the french deal to happen and the reason is kick backs and that is why you never hear such things before the cancellation but now because its already being cancelled, there is no point in saying the obvious.