Afghanistan may have 1 trillion dollar minerals potential

[T-Faz]

...yes our ships sets sail for the "largest gold nugget" known to man carrying a cargo of salves to help us exploit exotic riches. We paid for allegiance of Warlords and Kings, killed those that opposed us hexed those that could not be killed....

Sometimes I get carried away with MastanKhan's imagination, lets curb our predisposition to fantasy and acknowledge that we're now in the 21st century. And in this century of "civilized nations" where "civilized humans" live in civilized transparent societies, is it really possible for the US government to perpetuate the fraud of the century as you suggest?

The USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) has been engaged in Afghanistan since the early 50's.



The USGS along with Geological institutes from several nations were commissioned by the World Bank in 2004 to develop the mining infrastructure, formulate new laws and build a portfolio to attract foreign investments in the mining sector.

So your claim of secret riches being exploited on the pretext of war on terror ..is ..is.. ridiculous to say the very least.

USGS Projects in Afghanistan

..the only problem keeping Afghan natural resource from the market since the 1950's is investors. We are working with several nations and the World Bank to make it happen for the future of the people of Afghanistan.

Actually some US officials were so infuriated with the Taliban in regards to them not finalizing the pipeline deal that they threatened war against Afghanistan even before 911.

July 21, 2001: US Official Threatens Possible Military Action Against Taliban by October if Pipeline Is Not Pursued

Three former American officials, Tom Simons (former US Ambassador to Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Deputy Secretary of State for South Asian Affairs), and Lee Coldren (former State Department expert on South Asia) meet with Pakistani and Russian intelligence officers in a Berlin hotel. [SALON, 8/16/2002] This is the third of a series of back-channel conferences called “brainstorming on Afghanistan.” Taliban representatives sat in on previous meetings, but boycotted this one due to worsening tensions. However, the Pakistani ISI relays information from the meeting to the Taliban. [GUARDIAN, 9/22/2001] At the meeting, Coldren passes on a message from Bush officials. He later says, “I think there was some discussion of the fact that the United States was so disgusted with the Taliban that they might be considering some military action.” [GUARDIAN, 9/26/2001] Accounts vary, but former Pakistani Foreign Secretary Niaz Naik later says he is told by senior American officials at the meeting that military action to overthrow the Taliban in Afghanistan is planned to “take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.” The goal is to kill or capture both bin Laden and Taliban leader Mullah Omar, topple the Taliban regime, and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place. Uzbekistan and Russia would also participate. Naik also says, “It was doubtful that Washington would drop its plan even if bin Laden were to be surrendered immediately by the Taliban.” [BBC, 9/18/2001] One specific threat made at this meeting is that the Taliban can choose between “carpets of bombs” —an invasion—or “carpets of gold” —the pipeline. [BRISARD AND DASQUIE, 2002, PP. 43] Naik contends that Tom Simons made the “carpets” statement. Simons claims, “It’s possible that a mischievous American participant, after several drinks, may have thought it smart to evoke gold carpets and carpet bombs. Even Americans can’t resist the temptation to be mischievous.” Naik and the other American participants deny that the pipeline was an issue at the meeting. [SALON, 8/16/2002]

So you see wars can and have been fought over natural resources. I am not so sure about this one but many people now would think that these natural resources had something to do with the war.

 

[dbc]

Actually some FORMER US officials were so infuriated with the Taliban in regards to them not finalizing the pipeline deal that they allegedly threatened war against Afghanistan even before 911.

..I altered your post and it reads much better now...don't you think?

First there isn't any evidence just accusations made by some unnamed source. Second, you failed to establish a connection to the US Government - if these alleged threats were in fact made was it issued at the behest of the US Government?

 

[T-Faz]

..I altered your post and it reads much better now...don't you think?

First there isn't any evidence just accusations made by some unnamed source. Second, you failed to establish a connection to the US Government - if these alleged threats were in fact made was it issued at the behest of the US Government.

Actually these guys were representing the USG at a meeting that was being held on Afghanistan where our much respected official was told of this. When a government official blurts out such words, it definitely warrants attention. You cannot expect the government to issue such statements that would cause great disturbance in the international arena. Like a particular retired army officer who posts on this forum said, most things happen behind closed doors, only a limited and altered version is rarely released to the public.

What I posted is clearly referenced and if you follow the events around this particular one you will notice that Enron had a lot riding on Afghanistan and the proposed TAPI pipeline. We now what happened to that company and we also know the kind of dealings this particular company was involved in.

Just for your kind information ma'am, the person in question Niaz Naik, died under mysterious circumstances recently. Guess he knew too much for his own good.

 

[gambit]

Actually some US officials were so infuriated with the Taliban in regards to them not finalizing the pipeline deal that they threatened war against Afghanistan even before 911.

US officials? Sounds ominous...

BBC News | BUSINESS | Afghanistan plans gas pipeline

Unocal - which led a consortium of companies from Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Japan and South Korea - has maintained the project is both economically and technically feasible once Afghan stability was secured.

"Unocal is not involved in any projects (including pipelines) in Afghanistan, nor do we have any plans to become involved, nor are we discussing any such projects," a spokesman told BBC News Online.

The US company formally withdrew from the consortium in 1998.

Unocal withdrew from the consortium back in 1998.

Unocal Statement: Suspension of activities related to proposed Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline 8/21/98

El Segundo, Calif., Aug. 21, 1998 -- As a result of sharply deteriorating political conditions in the region, Unocal, which serves as the development manager for the Central Asia Gas (CentGas) pipeline consortium, has suspended all activities involving the proposed pipeline project in Afghanistan. We are discussing this suspension with the other members of the consortium.

This decision to suspend activities is consistent with Unocal's long-held position concerning its involvement in the project. For the past several months, Unocal has been reviewing this project with CentGas participants. We have consistently informed the other participants that unless and until the United Nations and the United States government recognize a legitimate government in Afghanistan, Unocal would not invest capital in the project. Contrary to some published reports, Unocal has not - and will not - become a party to a commercial agreement with any individual Afghanistan faction.

Unocal was instrumental in proposing the Central Asia gas pipeline project in 1995 and in forming the seven-member CentGas consortium in October 1997. The consortium was formed to evaluate and, if appropriate, to participate in the future construction of a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to natural gas markets in Pakistan and, potentially, India.

Unocal will only participate in construction of the proposed Central Asia Gas Pipeline when and if Afghanistan achieves the peace and stability necessary to obtain financing from international lending agencies for this project and an established government is recognized by the United Nations and the United States. For this reason, we strongly support the United Nations conflict resolution process underway in this and other regions.

We believe that the CentGas pipeline would benefit the entire region by providing vitally needed energy infrastructure, employment and training, as well as hard currency revenues to the several countries involved. The proposed pipeline is an example of a large-scale project that may, after the appropriate conditions are met, help Afghanistan move from its present devastation toward economic reconstruction.

Since the pipeline project was first proposed, there have been a number of complex issues that Unocal has taken very seriously. Unocal recognizes the legitimate concerns regarding the treatment of women in Afghanistan. Consistent with our core values and business principles, Unocal is currently providing humanitarian support and skills training to Afghanistan through CARE and the University of Nebraska at Omaha. Neither program is designed to provide pipeline construction skills training. These programs meet or exceed UN guidelines for doing fieldwork in Afghanistan. They include basic job skills training and education for both men and women, and elementary education for boys and girls. Unocal has also contributed relief assistance for victims of the recent earthquakes through the Red Cross and the United Nations.

Now...Is it true that China and Pakistan got into a trans-Karakoram oil-gas pipeline deal?

 

[dbc]

Actually these guys were representing the USG at a meeting that was being held on Afghanistan where our much respected official was told of this. When a government official blurts out such words, it definitely warrants attention. You cannot expect the government to issue such statements that would cause great disturbance in the international arena. Like a particular retired army officer who posts on this forum said, most things happen behind closed doors, only a limited and altered version is rarely released to the public.

What I posted is clearly referenced and if you follow the events around this particular one you will notice that Enron had a lot riding on Afghanistan and the proposed TAPI pipeline. We now what happened to that company and we also know the kind of dealings this particular company was involved in.

Just for your kind information ma'am, the person in question Niaz Naik died under mysterious circumstances recently. Guess he knew too much for his own good.

T-Faz, my government expects to have spent close to two trillion dollars on WOT by 2019. It makes no sense to attack a foreign country risk the lives or our troops, sink deeper in debt for control of Afghan mineral resources of questionable value. Even if it is correctly valued at a trillion dollars, the pass thru revenue for the US economy will be a small fraction of the total worth. We've already spent much more than can be expected as ROI from exploiting Afghanistan.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf

Once you read the congressional report I've provided as reference "The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11" you will conclude that Afghanistan is sunk cost for the US.

 

[T-Faz]

US officials? Sounds ominous...

BBC News | BUSINESS | Afghanistan plans gas pipeline

Unocal withdrew from the consortium back in 1998.

Unocal Statement: Suspension of activities related to proposed Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline 8/21/98

Now...Is it true that China and Pakistan got into a trans-Karakoram oil-gas pipeline deal?

Uzbekistan was not keen on the project because of the taliban.

June 1998: Enron Shuts Down Uzbekistan Pipeline Project
**
Enron’s agreement from 1996 (see June 24, 1996) to develop natural gas with Uzbekistan is not renewed. Enron closes its office there. The reason for the “failure of Enron’s flagship project” is an inability to get the natural gas out of the region. Uzbekistan’s production is “well below capacity” and only 10 percent of its production is being exported, all to other countries in the region. The hope was to use a pipeline through Afghanistan, but “Uzbekistan is extremely concerned at the growing strength of the Taliban and its potential impact on stability in Uzbekistan, making any future cooperation on a pipeline project which benefits the Taliban unlikely.” A $12 billion pipeline through China is being considered as one solution, but that wouldn’t be completed until the end of the next decade at the earliest. [ALEXANDER'S GAS & OIL CONNECTIONS, 10/12/1998]

Mazar-e-sharif was conquered by the Taliban earlier in the month your cited article was published.

August 9, 1998: Northern Alliance Stronghold Conquered by Taliban; Pipeline Project Now Looks Promising
**
The Northern Alliance capital of Afghanistan, Mazar-i-Sharif, is conquered by the Taliban. Military support of Pakistan’s ISI plays a large role; there is even an intercept of an ISI officer stating, “My boys and I are riding into Mazar-i-Sharif.” [NEW YORK TIMES, 12/8/2001] This victory gives the Taliban control of 90 percent of Afghanistan, including the entire proposed pipeline route. CentGas, the consortium behind the gas pipeline that would run through Afghanistan, is now “ready to proceed. Its main partners are the American oil firm Unocal and Delta Oil of Saudi Arabia, plus Hyundai of South Korea, two Japanese companies, a Pakistani conglomerate and the Turkmen government.” However, the pipeline cannot be financed unless the government is officially recognized. “Diplomatic sources said the Taliban’s offensive was well prepared and deliberately scheduled two months ahead of the next UN meeting” where members are to decide whether the Taliban should be recognized. [DAILY TELEGRAPH, 8/13/1998]

June 2001: Enron Shuts Down Expensive Indian Plant After Afghan Pipeline Fails to Materialize
**
Enron’s power plant in Dabhol, India, is shut down. The failure of the $3 billion plant, Enron’s largest investment, contributes to Enron’s bankruptcy in December. Earlier in the year, India stopped paying its bill for the energy from the plant, because energy from the plant cost three times the usual rates. [NEW YORK TIMES, 3/20/2001] Enron had hoped to feed the plant with cheap Central Asian gas, but this hope was dashed when a gas pipeline through Afghanistan was not completed. The larger part of the plant is still only 90 percent complete when construction stops around this time. [NEW YORK TIMES, 3/20/2001] Enron executives meet with Commerce Secretary Donald L. Evans about its troubled Dabhol power plant during this year [NEW YORK TIMES, 2/21/2002] , and Vice President Cheney lobbies the leader of India’s main opposition party about the plant this month. [NEW YORK TIMES, 2/21/2002]

Great timing.

October 9, 2001: Afghan Pipeline Idea Is Revived
**
US Ambassador Wendy Chamberlin meets with the Pakistani oil minister. She is briefed on the gas pipeline project from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, to Pakistan, which appears to be revived “in view of recent geopolitical developments” —in other words, the 9/11 attacks. [FRONTIER POST, 10/10/2001]

As for the trans-Karakoram pipeline, yes we were in it for our piece of the cake.

 

[T-Faz]

T-Faz, my government expects to have spent close to two trillion dollars on WOT by 2019. It makes no sense to attack a foreign country risk the lives or our troops, sink deeper in debt for control of Afghan mineral resources of questionable value. Even if it is correctly valued at a trillion dollars, the pass thru revenue for the US economy will be a small fraction of the total worth. We've already spent much more than can be expected as ROI from exploiting Afghanistan.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf

Once you read the congressional report I've provided as reference "The Cost of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Other Global War on Terror Operations Since 9/11" you will conclude that Afghanistan is sunk cost for the US.

Just to be clear, I am in no way certain or in agreement with the view that US fought the war in Afghanistan for their resources but I am not entirely sure of the circumstances surrounding it either. Have a look at this and share your views please.

August 2-3, 2001: Taliban Official Predicts US Will Invade Afghanistan by Mid-October, Possibly in Response to Major Attack Inside US
**
A senior official in the Taliban’s defense ministry tells journalist Hamid Mir that the US will soon invade Afghanistan. Mir will later recall that he is told, “[W]e believe Americans are going to invade Afghanistan and they will do this before October 15, 2001, and justification for this would be either one of two options: Taliban got control of Afghanistan or a big major attack against American interests either inside America or elsewhere in the world.” Mir reports this information before 9/11, presumably in the newspaper in Pakistan that he works for. [BERGEN, 2006, PP. 287] Interestingly, Afghan warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar made a similar prediction to Mir several months before (see April 2001). Also, several weeks earlier, US officials reportedly passed word to Taliban officials in a back channel meeting that the US may soon attack Afghanistan if the Taliban do not cooperate on building an oil and gas pipeline running through the country. According to one participant in the meeting, the US attack would take place “by the middle of October at the latest” (see July 21, 2001).

I am perplexed by the events that occurred around this time and seriously question some things that happened.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Let me try it again, on 911, 3000 americans were murdered in cold blood by an organization based in Afghanstan. When the Afghanstan would not cooperate with the USA in bringing those responsible to justice the Afghanstan Goverment was held responsible and destroyed. Since then the USA has been trying to install a new goverment and get out of Afghanstan.
If 911 had not happened we would not be there. It really dont take rocket scientist to figure that out. Personally I would not have ever voted or supported a poltican that would have opposed the invasion of Afghanstan.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Let me try it again, on 911, 3000 americans were murdered in cold blood by an organization based in Afghanstan. When the Afghanstan would not cooperate with the USA in bringing those responsible to justice the Afghanstan Goverment was held responsible and destroyed. Since then the USA has been trying to install a new goverment and get out of Afghanstan.
If 911 had not happened we would not be there. It really dont take rocket scientist to figure that out. Personally I would not have ever voted or supported a poltican that would have opposed the invasion of Afghanstan.

While Muslim non-state terrorists are allegedly responsible for the deaths of 7,000 Western civilians in the last 40 years (this including 2,000 Israelis violently occupying Palestinian lands and ignoring the most probable US and Israeli responsibility for the 3,000 people murdered on 9/11), the violent and non-violent excess deaths associated so far with the Bush wars (1990-2009) now total 9-11 million.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

9 to 11 million wow, can you provide any reliable sources or are you just makeing up figures as you go along and every time a Muslim dies the USA is not responsible...does any one have any real figures they want to share.

Do you realize that the economy of Afghanstan has improved since 2002.
The economy of Afghanistan has improved significantly since 2002 due to the infusion of billions of US dollars in international assistance and investments, as well as remittances from expats.[5] It is also due to dramatic improvements in agricultural production and the end of a four-year drought in most of the country.

While antiamericans want to blame for example every death on child birth for example on americans the standard of living in Afghanstan has actually improved since 2002. Look it up but use a reliable source . Remember what John Wayne says.

 

[MastanKhan]

Let me try it again, on 911, 3000 americans were murdered in cold blood by an organization based in Afghanstan. When the Afghanstan would not cooperate with the USA in bringing those responsible to justice the Afghanstan Goverment was held responsible and destroyed. Since then the USA has been trying to install a new goverment and get out of Afghanstan.
If 911 had not happened we would not be there. It really dont take rocket scientist to figure that out. Personally I would not have ever voted or supported a poltican that would have opposed the invasion of Afghanstan.

Sir,

We never had any problem with you seeking justice---taking charge and executing the al qaeda and their cohorts----. But it is 8 years now---you have killed close to a million muslims---when al qaeda was trapped--you let them slip out the net, at tora bora---you let Mullah Umar slip out of Kandhar.

If it was your revenge---then it was onto you to have taken the revenge---that was your moral obligation to the 3000 dead---but you failed your moral obligation miserably----you hired cut throats and murderers---the northern alliance to do your job---you were living so high and mighty---you lived and felt so clean---that you didnot want to kill the murderers of your very own by your own hands.

Even your special forces men following Bin Laden at tora bora also chickened out and ran back to save their live lest they got hurt-----SHAME ON YOUR SOLDIERS.

AT LEAST THEY COULD HAVE MADE THE CHARGE LIKE THAT OF THE 'LIGHT BRIGADE'----and would have died in the cause of glory to the american flag as warriors do---when the time came to take Bin Laden out----but they hid behind the skirts of the orders---yes the orders and cavalry never showed up to take down bin laden.

I give credit to that man Gary Brooks Faulkner---a man by himself---with a handgun---a knife and a sword---in the hindu kush mountains all alone----to take the revenge---DIE IN SHAME AMERICAN SPECIAL FORCES---DIE IN SHAME if you have any.



Captain America---sir---when it happens on your watch---it is your responsibility---whenyou take the credit for all the good---then whatever the sh-it that accumulates---will be dumped on you as well. You just can't pickup the roses and claim the scent---you got to claim the stench coming from the cadavers that you buried in the hole.

 

[PakSher]

Great news! Afghanistan prospers and 8 million Afghans illegally living in Pakistan can return home to a wealthy country. They also will be able to import food and necessary items and they will stop fighting for good and lead better lives.

 

[All-Green]

Whoever thinks that U.S. companies are going to come in and strip Afghanistan's minerals. Do not understand the realities of that industry. Most of the world Mining conglomerates are not U.S. but Canadian, British, South African, Australian, and to a lesser extent Chinese. Even in the U.S. most of the major mines are foreign owned.

True, the latest Oil Spill damaging US coast is due to drilling operation of BP which is UK based.

I know i am going off topic but is there any particular reason for this?
Knowing that US industrial might is second to none, what is the business case in letting foreign firms operate in US for such extensive mining/drilling operations?

 

[Thomas]

True, the latest Oil Spill damaging US coast is due to drilling operation of BP which is UK based.

I know i am going off topic but is there any particular reason for this?
Knowing that US industrial might is second to none, what is the business case in letting foreign firms operate in US for such extensive mining/drilling operations?

it's all about free market and world economics. it really depends on the industry. it just happens that mining is not one area the U.S. dominates. The Canadians and South Africans are probably the strongest in that area.

On a side note BP also owns the largest copper mine in the U.S.

 

[Spring Onion]

Oops seems like Indians also invading Afghanistan

5 Indian firms to bid for Afghan mines - India - The Times of India

5 Indian firms to bid for Afghan mines

NEW DELHI: China has first-mover advantage but India stands to gain hugely in Afghanistan if its apparently huge mineral deposits are ready to be tapped. As reports spread about Afghanistan’s untold mineral wealth, five Indian companies are among seven that have been shortlisted by Kabul to bid for huge iron ore mines there.

Afghanistan’s mineral riches are nothing new — despite US media reports highlighting a $1 trillion mineral and rare metals finds in Afghanistan as “unknown”. These reports come at a time when Afghan war officially surpassed Vietnam as America’s longest war.

China won the Aynak copper mines in an international bid in Afghanistan in 2008 for a whopping $4 billion. In 2009, the US Geological Survey told the Hamid Karzai government that Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries in the world fighting one of the deadliest wars, was sitting on huge deposits that could transform the country in a way currently unimaginable.

In 2009, Karzai sent out senior cabinet ministers across countries to scout for investment. His then minister for mines Mohammed Ibrahim Adel told foreign investors that according to the USGS, Afghanistan’s north is estimated to hold between 600 to 700 billion cubic metres of natural gas and the country has some 25 million tonnes of oil in four basins. Adel was later removed by Karzai on account of rumours that he had made $20 million from the Chinese Metallurgical Corporation for the Aynak deal.

Afghanistan’s iron ore deposits are estimated at between five to six billion tonnes. In 2009, five Indian companies, Vedanta group’s Sesa Goa, Essar Minerals, Ispat Industries, JSW Steel and Rashtriya Ispat Nigam joined Chinese companies for a bid on the 1.8 billion tonne Hajigak iron ore mines in the Hindu Kush mountains.

In January 2010, the Karzai government put the bids on hold as corruption concerns took over. In fact, the iron projects will have to be bid for again for the same reason. But the promise of Afghanistan’s wealth may make the war a bit more palatable to western governments which are chafing at the bit in their desire to pull out troops from what seems like an unwinnable war.

Old data reconstructed by Orange media to suit the news and befool some people.

Have a heart China was there before you for those bids in the past.
China would be a good choice for Afghanistan in this regard.

Their Cos and workers are far officiant and have a good reputation.