Afghanistan exit strategy agreed on, Pakistan issue unresolved

[Secur]

The case now is different Afganistan has considerable backing by the west and Nato and its army is developing in addition to that US special forces and military instructors will stay.

Taliban cannot take Kabul this time.

The only help pakistan can do is by not allowing its territory used by terror networks apart from that Nato can take care of Afganistan.

Yeah , we are well aware of the state of the Afghan army , their illicit drug usage , poor morale , zero discipline and inhumane nature ... I am amazed some people are still counting on them ...

Time will tell who's going to take Kabul this time , Just wait and watch

If NATO - the most advanced army in the world cant control Durand Line , why do you put your faith in PA then? ... As for Pakistan allowing its territory to be used by Taliban , you do not have an iota of understanding of the situation on ground ...

And once again you are asking Pakistan for help despite your strategy to stabilize Afghanistan without us as in your earlier post ?
At least be consistent , decide what you want and be on one side

India has more priorities than containing pakistan in Afganistan. It is about economy and transit route to oil rich central asia. Pakistan is not in a state to challenge India those days are over a long time ago.

Sadly , Dehli is still far ... The situation in Iran and Afghanistan is not favorable for you ...

Tehran is warming with Pakistan these days , signing energy deals and such ...

Really ? I didn't think "02 was such a long time ago ... Threatened , Mobilized and Backed off , huh ? ... Very rich coming from a person who's country entire military doctrine and foreign policy is Pakistan centric

 

[explorer9]

Post soviet withdrawl Afganistan is ruled by weak govt. with out any external support. The case now is different Afganistan has considerable backing by the west and Nato and its army is developing in addition to that US special forces and military instructors will stay.
Taliban cannot take Kabul this time.

Yes, no doubt that case is different this time but keep in mind the till that time Soviet Union used to have land border with Afghanistan unlike NATO which is totally dependent of Pakistan or NDN for supplying even the medicine. As far as NATO or ISAF is concerned its 98% USA 1 % UK, France, Germany & 1% rest of the members & partners ( I kept Turkey out deliberately ) So it is very difficult for US to prolong the war as per their desire in ever changing geopolitics. Ultimately Taliban will come back in power may be with more organized and inclusive form of governance than before.

 

[Srinivas]

Yeah , we are well aware of the state of the Afghan army , their illicit drug usage , poor morale , zero discipline and inhumane nature ... I am amazed some people are still counting on them ...

Time will tell who's going to take Kabul this time , Just wait and watch

If NATO - the most advanced army in the world cant control Durand Line , why do you put your faith in PA then? ... As for Pakistan allowing its territory to be used by Taliban , you do not have an iota of understanding of the situation on ground ...

And once again you are asking Pakistan for help despite your strategy to stabilize Afghanistan without us as in your earlier post ?
At least be consistent , decide what you want and be on one side



Sadly , Dehli is still far ... The situation in Iran and Afghanistan is not favorable for you ...

Tehran is warming with Pakistan these days , signing energy deals and such ...

Really ? I didn't think "02 was such a long time ago ... Threatened , Mobilized and Backed off , huh ? ... Very rich coming from a person who's country entire military doctrine and foreign policy is Pakistan centric

If Afgan army are poor morale and drug users then the same will apply to the pakistani army, The events unfolded in the last 10 years particularly Mehran attack will surely reduced the morale. So according to your logic the redical groups should take over Pakistan but that has not happened.
In coming decades the situation in pakistan and afganistan is going to be same, weak governments and radical extremist terror attacks.
Nato may not control the durand line but thay can defend the cities which is were the Afgan national army will come into the boots of Nato forces. In the coming decades there will be conflicts on both sides of Durand line with terror attacks.
If Taliban choose to oppose the current afgan govt. They will do terror attacks nothing more than that. Taliban armed with AK 47, IED's and RPG cannot take on well defended cities.

 

[Secur]

If Afgan army are poor morale and drug users then the same will apply to the pakistani army, The events unfolded in the last 10 years particularly Mehran attack will surely reduced the morale. So according to your logic the redical groups should take over Pakistan but that has not happened.

In coming decades the situation in pakistan and afganistan is going to be same, weak governments and radical extremist terror attacks.

Nato may not control the durand line but thay can defend the cities which is were the Afgan national army will come into the boots of Nato forces. In the coming decades there will be conflicts on both sides of Durand line with terror attacks.

If Taliban choose to oppose the current afgan govt. They will do terror attacks nothing more than that. Taliban armed with AK 47, IED's and RPG cannot take on well defended cities.

Hey , are we now comparing the disciplined 7th largest army in the world with some rag tag recruited cave-men given a few weapons and vehicles killing their own trainers ?

The state of the Afghan army would mean the same applies to PA too ? ... Are you smoking refined Kandhar's finest cannabis ?

The PA has been fighting the WoT for the last 10 years , has achieved more success than NATO , understands the situation better and if you are living under the rock - fighting at home ... What were you saying about our morale ? Do you think that a couple of attacks can bring our morale down ? Must i enlighten you about the Maoist and other separatist groups attacks in India and then take a cheap shot at your army ? Should I ?

According to my logic ? Really , which logic ? Are you making stuff yourself now ?

Nobody knows about the coming decades , lets see what surprises it brings for us You are free to fantasize however ...

If NATO cant control the Durand Line then how the **** do you expect PA to do so ? Care to answer this very question ?

Current Afghan Govt will collapse the instant the NATO leaves the country , the situation on the ground is not what it is being projected to be ... Fox News , CNN ... Ignorance is bliss !

Well defended cities Are you aware about the attacks only in Kabul ? The planning and the execution ? I will spare your other well defended cities here ... Now , when this is happening with NATO present in the country , what makes you think that the situation will be any better after ANA takes command ? As i said - Time will tell ...

 

[Pakistanisage]

India has more priorities than containing pakistan in Afganistan. It is about economy and transit route to oil rich central asia.
Pakistan is not in a state to challenge India those days are over a long time ago.

I think you got it backwards , mate.

India is no position to challenge Pakistan no more because those days are over after Pakistan went nuclear.

You don't have the kahones to go eyeball to eyeball with Pakistan in a contest of Nuclear Brinkmanship...

 

[Srinivas]

I think you got it backwards , mate.

India is no position to challenge Pakistan no more because those days are over after Pakistan went nuclear.

You don't have the kahones to go eyeball to eyeball with Pakistan in a contest of Nuclear Brinkmanship...

India never challenged pakistan, It is pakistan who challenged India by starting all the wars. You got it wrong. Are you a loser or what talking about Nuclear Brinkmanship.
The statements from pakistani leadership and guys from pakistan always say that we went nuclear and we are same as you. In todays world wars are economic and diplomatic. Nuclear state does not mean successful state.

Hey , are we now comparing the disciplined 7th largest army in the world with some rag tag recruited cave-men given a few weapons and vehicles killing its own trainers ?

The state of the Afghan army would mean the same applies to PA too ? ... Are you smoking refined Kandhar's finest cannabis ?

The PA has been fighting the WoT for the last 10 years , has achieved more success than NATO , understands the situation better and if you are living under the rock - fighting at home ... What were you saying about our morale now ? Do you think that a couple of attacks can bring our morale down ? Must i enlighten you about the Maoist and other separatist groups attacks in India and then take a cheap shot at your army ? Should I ?

According to my logic ? Really , which logic ? Are you making stuff yourself now ?

Nobody knows about the coming decades , lets see what surprises it brings for us You are free to fantasize however ...

If NATO cant control the Durand Line then how the **** do you expect PA to do so ? Care to answer this very question ?

Current Afghan Govt will collapse the instant the NATO leaves the country , the situation on the ground is not what it is being projected to be ... Fox News , CNN ... Ignorance is bliss !

Well defended cities Are you aware about the attacks only in Kabul ? The planning and the execution ? I will spare your other well defended cities here ... Now , when this is happening with NATO present in the country , what makes you think that the situation will be any better after ANA takes command ? As i said - Time will tell ...

The same well disciplined army has done nothing when osama was hiding next to your capital and can do nothing when the raid was going on. Compare it to Iran which hacked the sentinal drone when it entered its space.
The news from the last 10 yrs is filled with taliban beheading PA. Take and example of Mehran attack and till now you don't know who did it and what is the cause of the security lapse.
so much for your discipled army. The world is about to witness a democratic Afganistan in the coming decades.
May be i have hurt your ego, But Afgans are brave soldiers than pakistani punjabi soldiers. The northern Afgans are better soldiers as history has proved with Babur, Ghaznavi, Ghori etc.

 

[iajj]

Pakistan has no part to play in the Afganistan internal matters. Pakistan should assure that its land will not be used by Haqanni network and other ISI run terror network this is what the NATO is working on.
The deal is that West,US and India will invest in the rebuilding of war torn Afganistan until 2024 by then ANA can defend themselves.
The title is correct it is pakistan assurance that is not agreed].
Your leaders are misleading you after the withdrawl of majority of NATO forces still there will be considerable special forces and military experts stationed in Kabul for detrrance against Taliban. Talivan strength is close to 10000 and ANA alone is 180,000 plus 20000 NATO forces(estimated) until 2024 are enough to stop Taliban take over.
So no need for Pakistan in this case, only assurance is to stop the infiltration from pakistani side, Which pakistan is not giving.

Scenrio after withdrawl: Terror attacks on both sides os Durand line but Afganistan will slowly but surely progress as a democratic country. If Taliban agrees the terms with Nato then the development of Afganistan with its vast mineral resources and strategic location as a gate way of cental Asia will speed up.

Pakistan has missed a golden opportunity to come to terms with NATO. Do you think the West will bend over for your blakmail by holding terror as your trump card. The latest Bannu jail break and terror attacks on the embassies increased the west determination to stabilize Afganistan without pakistan's help as it is of no use to trust you people.

normally we should respect a nation's sovereignty. unfortunately in the afghan case, there are a few things working against this theoretical principle: 1) afghans lack any meaningful cohesion as a nation-state - these guys just don't necessarily want to stick together 2) the civil tranquillity of afghanistan is the vital interest of the cabal in kabul - and two hundred million pakistanis. the latter simply got far more at stake than a few corrupt afghan politicians who cannot even bring their own nationals (numbering in but twenty millions) to a singular vision of nationhood 3) the ethnic mix in afghanistan and the continuous flow of refugees from there to pakistan means pakistan needs some measure of control over afghanistan ONLY out of purely defensive and border-control concerns; 4) warmongerers in delhi and washington are working tirelessly to turn afghanistan into a forward base and the primary target they aim to harm is pakistan, and insomuch afghans cannot fund for its own military and security forces yet and rely on indian and american black hands in the structuring, training, and orientation of its forces, there is no genuine political sovereignty to speak of for afghanistan and as such there is no afghan sovereignty for pakistan to violate to begin with.

 

[Srinivas]

normally we should respect a nation's sovereignty. unfortunately in the afghan case, there are a few things working against this theoretical principle: 1) afghans lack any meaningful cohesion as a nation-state - these guys just don't necessarily want to stick together 2) the civil tranquillity of afghanistan is the vital interest of the cabal in kabul - and two hundred million pakistanis. the latter simply got far more at stake than a few corrupt afghan politicians who cannot even bring their own nationals (numbering in but twenty millions) to a singular vision of nationhood 3) the ethnic mix in afghanistan and the continuous flow of refugees from there to pakistan means pakistan needs some measure of control over afghanistan ONLY out of purely defensive and border-control concerns; 4) warmongerers in delhi and washington are working tirelessly to turn afghanistan into a forward base and the primary target they aim to harm is pakistan, and insomuch afghans cannot fund for its own military and security forces yet and rely on indian and american black hands in the structuring, training, and orientation of its forces, there is no genuine political sovereignty to speak of for afghanistan and as such there is no afghan sovereignty for pakistan to violate to begin with.

1) Apply the point 1 to Tibet. Tibetans don't want to be with China. Afganistan existed as a country in the past with out outsiders help. Adfganistan even existed even before the formation of pakistan. Not a valid point Considering there are various countries which has diverse ethinicties. It is upto Afgans to decide for their future no need of outsides to decide. It is their internal problem.

2) No body can control Durand line infiltrations it is proved from the ancient times. As a responsible neighbour pakistan should look for stability with out meddling in Afgan internal matters or Afgan democratic process.

3) What new harm India can do to pakistan right now, this is laughable.

4) It is pakistan who thinks Afganistan as a strategic depth and a military base not India.

5) Last but not the least what about the soverignity of Tibet and Tibetan refugees entering India. India must have some measure of control of Tibet until it is stable and prosperous.

 

[Speaker]

The only alliance that Pakistan can benefit/progress, wouldn't worry about threats is through neighbours: China and Iran.

China is definitely an alliance you can depend on. In the context of Afghanistan, you have a diplomatic tightrope to walk with Iran (and pretty much the rest of the world). If Pakistan plans to prop up the Afghan Taliban after NATO leaves for "strategic reasons", that will directly clash with every other nation that is against it, and definitely Iran which sides with the NA and hates the Taliban. I don't ever see Pakistan-Iran becoming the alliance that some forum members claim is possible.

 

[iajj]

If Pakistan won't collaborate, it will face more international isolation.

you sounded like that ignoble, double-faced creature, VC-something. but what good is international acceptance if it comes at the cost of national security? isolation is preferable to having anglo-americans as friends. in fact, even death is preferable.

 

[Secur]

1)Apply the point 1 to Tibet. Tibetans don't want to be with China. Afganistan existed as a country in the past with out outsiders help. Adfganistan even existed even before the formation of pakistan. Not a valid point Considering there are various countries which has diverse ethinicties. It is upto Afgans to decide for their future no need of outsides to decide. It is their internal problem.

2) No body can control Durand line infiltrations it is proved from the ancient times. As a responsible neighbour pakistan should look for stability with out meddling in Afgan internal matters or Afgan democratic process.

5) Last but not the least what about the soverignity of Tibet and Tibetan refugees entering India. India must have some measure of control of Tibet until it is stable and prosperous.

The ungovernable impulse to troll around of your lot is showing once again ! How come Tibet or Tibetans are relevant to Pakistan and Afghani Pashtun scenario ? Last time i checked , China is a sovereign country with a central Govt ... The state of Afghanistan from the last 200 years has been messy ! Go read some history ... There's simply no cohesion in the Afghan people ... There are just warlords and terrorist controlling their respective areas ...
Yes , it is upto Afghans to decide their future but are they even ready for that ?

Do you have some bi polar by any chance ? You are constantly making contradictory statements ... In your earlier posts , you mentioned how " PA should control the Durand Line " then resorted to " NATO cant control it " and now " nobody can control it " scenario ... Make up your mind what your stance is ...

India having measure of control of Tibet ? ... Think you can deal with PLA ? Is Nehru once again alive repeating the " FORWARD POLICY " ? Want a repeat of '62 ? ... Tibet is peaceful and prosperous ... Want me to divert the topic to Kashmir ? The state of the region and human rights of the people ?

Be on topic ... Or else the Report Button is just a click away ...

 

[iajj]

1) Apply the point 1 to Tibet. Tibetans don't want to be with China. Afganistan existed as a country in the past with out outsiders help. Adfganistan even existed even before the formation of pakistan. Not a valid point Considering there are various countries which has diverse ethinicties. It is upto Afgans to decide for their future no need of outsides to decide. It is their internal problem.

2) No body can control Durand line infiltrations it is proved from the ancient times. As a responsible neighbour pakistan should look for stability with out meddling in Afgan internal matters or Afgan democratic process.

3) What new harm India can do to pakistan right now, this is laughable.

4) It is pakistan who thinks Afganistan as a strategic depth and a military base not India.

5) Last but not the least what about the soverignity of Tibet and Tibetan refugees entering India. India must have some measure of control of Tibet until it is stable and prosperous.

historically there was enough tibetan internecine rivalry and bloodshedding between different sects of the lamaist cult, and beijing had to intervene anyway - and eventually beijing learned just to garrison troops there to take care of a bunch of lamaists who couldn't take care of themselves and deserved no political sovereignty.

and china was perfectly willingly to deal with the tibetans who fled to india who are criminals anyway. but indians didn't take them in reluctantly; it SHIELDED these criminals just to needle china. if india were sincere in solving this problems, it could ship all of them back to china tomorrow; alternatively, china could ship some quality bullets to india via DHL and pay for the mass graves in india as well.

in the end, the welfare of two hundred million pakistans outweigh the well being of a few afghans who barely wanted to be. and politics is about making the hard decision to kill three people to save four, and in this case it is not even a hard decision. those who thought otherwise are, like chinese say, women

 

[Secur]

The same well disciplined army has done nothing when osama was hiding next to your capital and can do nothing when the raid was going on. Compare it to Iran which hacked the sentinal drone when it entered its space.

The news from the last 10 yrs is filled with taliban beheading PA. Take and example of Mehran attack and till now you don't know who did it and what is the cause of the security lapse.

so much for your discipled army. The world is about to witness a democratic Afganistan in the coming decades.
May be i have hurt your ego, But Afgans are brave soldiers than pakistani punjabi soldiers. The northern Afgans are better soldiers as history has proved with Babur, Ghaznavi, Ghori etc.

I knew this was coming ... When you have no answers to the questions raised in my post , why bother to reply and desperately try to change the topic ? ... Make up your mind what you want to discuss ...

Yes , and If you do not know the commander of the base was court martialed for the security lapse ... Is there a cause for security lapse too ? ... Attacks happen all over the world ...

Yes , so much for my disciplined army that they have been more successful than most advanced army NATO in controlling their areas ... Go read a little on Wiki about operation in South Waziristan , Bajaur , Swat , Der and Chitral , their success and the outcome ... How much % of Afghanistan does NATO control ? Hell ! Even Kabul is not safe ...

Hurt my ego ? Or possibly ridicule yourself , huh ? Are you even aware of the ethnic composition of the Pakistan Army ? What the **** do you mean by Pakistan Punjabi soldiers ? Every race living in our country is present in the army ! ... But you didn't know even that yet talked crap along ...

By 2007 the percentage representation in the Pakistan Army as a whole (officers and Other Ranks or soldiers) was as follows: Punjabis (including Punjabi Pathans): 51%,Pashtuns: 21%, Sindhis: 13.5%,, Kashmiris: 9.11%, Balochis: 3.2%, and Minorities: 0.72%.

 

[somebozo]

"So far, the closure of the transit routes has not had a major impact on our operations," Rasmussen said, but added the transit routes were very important and that he expected their reopening "in the very near future."

Then why are they important Mr Rasmussen?

 

[VCheng]

Then why are they important Mr Rasmussen?

They are important, but only to the extent that the closure is making Pakistan back itself into a corner of its own making.