Afghan withdrawal would hurt India: McCain

[karan.1970]

Guys, whether or not Pakistan is doing so good or bad today is not the big picture. You're missing the big picture when you say that Pakistan created problems for itself. If Pakistan did not do what it did, it may have not existed today. At least we exists today. Economy can jumpstart tomorrow if we fix some other problems, and some of those problems are not even that hard to fix (such as getting rid of Zardari and his gang in the upcoming years). But what we did before helped us exist today. That's the big picture missing when Indians talk about this stuff.

SMC, I think its Pakistan thats missing the big picture. Zardari is not your problem. Its the extremist fundamentalism that exists in Pakistan that is the cancer. Even in places like Yemen and Afghanistan, the terrorists are not slaughtering civilians with such prudence as they do in Pakistan. And the worse is that the Pakistani people and govt has accepted such attacks on civilians as business as usual these days. Over 50 people died yesterday, and 24 hours down the line, there are just about 40 posts in the thread about the blast. There were more posts about Sania Mirza's wedding in an hour.

Also, on the home page of Dawn.com, the news article about the blast does not exist anymore.

In a nutshell, a blast in KP killing 50 people is no longer a news item.. And thats the big picture which you are missing..

 

[Capt.Popeye]

SMC, I think its Pakistan thats missing the big picture. Zardari is not your problem. Its the extremist fundamentalism that exists in Pakistan that is the cancer. Even in places like Yemen and Afghanistan, the terrorists are not slaughtering civilians with such prudence as they do in Pakistan. And the worse is that the Pakistani people and govt has accepted such attacks on civilians as business as usual these days. Over 50 people died yesterday, and 24 hours down the line, there are just about 40 posts in the thread about the blast. There were more posts about Sania Mirza's wedding in an hour.

Also, on the home page of Dawn.com, the news article about the blast does not exist anymore.

In a nutshell, a blast in KP killing 50 people is no longer a news item.. And thats the big picture which you are missing..

That (the bold part) is not just the big picture, but the picture that really matters; the final picture. If people are determined to close their eyes and say that the picture is imaginary, then .......
A (or all) corrupt group of politicians can be rounded up at gun-point and locked up (if necessary). But how to eliminate a group of (faceless and nameless) people that are willing to kill and be killed, that is the hugely looming question?
Anybody willing to answer that question?

 

[Toshiba]

it's right that it will hurt india,just try another alternatives to stay there

 

[sasuke]

Why people think that US hasn't Won the war in Afghanistan ... they have stayed there for 10 years .. bit%h slapped the country and played with it like a toy ... and they had fun in the neighbor countries.

What else do they have to do ... you know sometime they are gonna get bored .... and thats why Iran has been chosen next

Anyways .... it's sad to see that people turn a blind eye to violence ... it's just the fact of trying to sympathize with a bunch of killers is a bad idea ... one should never do that!!! Anyways ... if one still wants to live in stone age with stupid laws ... no one can blame that!

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Republicans are more gutsy and better for India than democrats . Period

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It will be bad for India if Taliban comes back to power in afghanistan but were they not in power in afghanistan from 1996-2001 ?

We handled it just fine right ? we will continue to handle it as we are even more able to handle that kind of a situation even better today if it comes to that.

The country that will be affected the worst would be Pakistan if it has Taliban ruling right next door to it whether they like to believe it or not.

USA can get out whenever they feel it is the right time.

 

[Areesh]

Bomb Blasts

Economy


Stable neighbor- peaceful Afghanistan
is just a myth..there was civil war going in Afghanistan for better part of the decade..Taliban came to power in 1996 was one of the bloodiest period in Afghanistan.. they pushed Afghanistan into dark ages..their treatment of women was abysmal.

It was in much better condition than it is right now. Atleast forces from all over the world weren't bashing their heads with the mountains of Afghanistan as they are right now.

Ingredients..which you had prepared for kashmir..are what, which is haunting you these days..even with all your antics you haven't been able to take an inch kashmir..but as a byproduct of those antics ..you have manged to set your own house on fire.

Your personal opinion. Pretty much in contradiction to ground realities. More than 90% of TTP thugs haven't been involved in IOK jihad at any point of time.

Atlantique incident-

your naval plane came in to our airspace(just days after Kargil war) ..we ordered it to change course and land at Indian airbase..instead it changed course tried to dash towards border...we shot it down ..

Pakistan filed lawsuit($60 million) in International court of Justice, spent four hundred thousand dollars in the case but lost the case..how is it a "Golden era" moment for Pakistan??

You forgot that IAF lost 2 fighter AC's and one chopper to PA before this incident. Now how is that golden era.

was the worst tragedy for Pakistan in 1990s ..it did not gain an inch of land... lost 2500 hundred lives in the process..tried to lie but was caught ..was ridiculed internationally for its sneak attack..brought peace process started after Lahore Summit ..did irreparable damage to its Kashmir cause.

2500 lives. God knows where you come to this figure. Oh I got it. It was Nawaz Sharif's rant against Musharraf. Come on buddy everybody knows this is just illogical.

About an inch of land . Let's simplify it. We first captured some posts. Returned most of them. Kept some with us. India at first lost some posts. Regained most of them. Some still in the enemies control.

Point 5353 under Pakistan's control.

Your post was full of BS but you definitely need to correct your record.

 

[somebozo]

is Mc Cain looking for a job at ToI(let) media after failed career in american politics?? or he has been summoned for another ball busting session by Palin??

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

It was in much better condition than it is right now. Atleast forces from all over the world weren't bashing their heads with the mountains of Afghanistan as they are right now.



Your personal opinion. Pretty much in contradiction to ground realities. More than 90% of TTP thugs haven't been involved in IOK jihad at any point of time.



You forgot that IAF lost 2 fighter AC's and one chopper to PA before this incident. Now how is that golden era.



2500 lives. God knows where you come to this figure. Oh I got it. It was Nawaz Sharif's rant against Musharraf. Come on buddy everybody knows this is just illogical.

About an inch of land . Let's simplify it. We first captured some posts. Returned most of them. Kept some with us. India at first lost some posts. Regained most of them. Some still in the enemies control.

Point 5353 under Pakistan's control.

Your post was full of BS but you definitely need to correct your record.

As for whether afghanistan was better under taliban or it is better now i guess we should let the Afghans answer that.

With respect to Kargil , Well Pakistan didn't return those posts , it lost them .

 

[SMC]

SMC, I think its Pakistan thats missing the big picture. Zardari is not your problem. Its the extremist fundamentalism that exists in Pakistan that is the cancer. Even in places like Yemen and Afghanistan, the terrorists are not slaughtering civilians with such prudence as they do in Pakistan. And the worse is that the Pakistani people and govt has accepted such attacks on civilians as business as usual these days. Over 50 people died yesterday, and 24 hours down the line, there are just about 40 posts in the thread about the blast. There were more posts about Sania Mirza's wedding in an hour.

Also, on the home page of Dawn.com, the news article about the blast does not exist anymore.

In a nutshell, a blast in KP killing 50 people is no longer a news item.. And thats the big picture which you are missing..

You've pretty much diverted from all that I said and went off on tangent. I never said Zardari is the cause of the problem, rather that removing him and his government will help the economy. That's no doubt true.

The problem with terrorism is being taken care of slowly but surely. If you notice, number of bomb blasts has been decreasing in the last 8 months. The number of major bomb blasts in the last 8 months have been around 5-10. That's still a lot, but that's substantially less than what used to happen. That's because we've broken the back of TTP and have given them a hard pounding.

The reason why this bomb blast may have had not so much reporting was because it was in remote KP, and people may not care about it as much as if it were to happen in a big city.

But my point was that had we not intervened in Afghanistan, we may have not existed. It's better to exist and not be in a great shape than to not exist at all. That's the big picture being missed by Indians, and you pretty much diverted in all ways possible from that. My part about Zardari meant to be imply that the economy can jumpstart at any time, it's not like economy has slowed down forever. Predictions are that we'll have a decent growth rate in 2012. But once you're gone, you're pretty much forever.

 

[Tshering22]

But my point was that had we not intervened in Afghanistan, we may have not existed. It's better to exist and not be in a great shape than to not exist at all.

See this is where you're repeatedly going wrong. This paranoia that your existence is in threat, caused Zia to radicalize local population to such an extent that their aggression still remains despite decades after Soviet war. Your existence was never a threat from Soviet Union till US had decided to play the card in Afghanistan. What Karan and rest of us are trying to tell you is that had you stayed out of Afghanistan and let US handle it head on themselves along with NATO, USSR might have over-looked you. Soviets already had an open-port agreement with all of our sea ports from west to east, meaning that transit was not much of a problem at all already for them. This is for those who are saying that they wanted an access to warm waters.

That's the big picture being missed by Indians, and you pretty much diverted in all ways possible from that. My part about Zardari meant to be imply that the economy can jumpstart at any time, it's not like economy has slowed down forever. Predictions are that we'll have a decent growth rate in 2012. But once you're gone, you're pretty much forever.

Economy can never slow down permanently but it can be delayed as long as half a century. As you said, we agree that Zardari is not your problem, your problem is fundamentalism in the society; a.k.a less times in laboratories and research centers and more time in madrassas. Science and technology are key to any national development and rather than focusing on developing surplus scientists and engineers, your leaders digressed into religion for the sake of 1 war so much that could be even won with simple nationalism. And see the damage it did.

I am not intending to offend religion or anything here but saying that this problem existed much before Zardari's arrival and alongside your post-Soviet war status. Musharaf's time saw some growth in your economy because the man was more pan-national than pan-religion. He wanted to modernize and develop Pakistani image to that of Turkish levels. However, due to decades of radicalism and narrow-mindedness of general lower-class citizenry, he was unable to change that.

Leaving it to Americans and not participating in 80s Afghan war would have meant that you'd have let US sweat it out while you would be semi-neutral and hence you could have avoided participating in WOT simply because there would have been no Taliban had your generals disbanded them even after 80s war.

 

[r3alist]

india are lucky to even have anything to do with afghanistan?

they dont share a border

they dont share a religion

they dont share customs

they dont share ethnicity



who cares what india think?

they are an unnecessary player in the region and it would be better if it was left to pak and afghanistan

only difference is uncle sam wants india there, i predict soon enough they will be running away, by themselves.

 

[Toshiba]

india are lucky to even have anything to do with afghanistan?

they dont share a border

they dont share a religion

they dont share customs

they dont share ethnicity



who cares what india think?

they are an unnecessary player in the region and it would be better if it was left to pak and afghanistan

only difference is uncle sam wants india there, i predict soon enough they will be running away, by themselves.

then y did u involve ur self in north east india via bangladesh,in indian punjab.

 

[muse]

I can think of few more immediate ways to damage the US-India relationship, and to convince India that the United States is both a declining power and an unreliable partner, than for us to pull out of Afghanistan before achieving our goals,” McCain said

So, it is or ought to be, an element of US policy to convince India that US will stay in Afghanistan??

Who actually thinks that the US will leave Afghanistan any time soon?

I'm trying to make sense of the article and quotes in the article from the McCain speech, but I must confess that I'm not sure what the article is about nor have I understood what US policy in Afghanistan has to do with India? Certainly I understand Indian apprehensions with regard to events in Afghanistan, but how does US policy imperatives in Afghanistan relate to India?

 

[r3alist]

Certainly I understand Indian apprehensions with regard to events in Afghanistan, but how does US policy imperatives in Afghanistan relate to India?

you mean to say you dont know?

the US is coaching india to be a regional boss, to counter and surround china, to weaken and undermine pakistan

india has no real natural connection to afghanistan - it was created and based on false premises thus endowing india with more respect and "weight" then it would have otherwise gotten

hence indian concerns = us concerns