Afghan withdrawal would hurt India: McCain

[Capt.Popeye]

Obviously it would be in Pakistan's best interest if U.S. withdraws from Afghanistan

.

Do you really think so? Can you be sure that it will not be a replay of the past? Or do you look forward to the prospect of sorting out the good taliban from the bad taliban by yourselves. It will be as enjoyable a task as trying to differentiate between a good cobra and a bad cobra. While hoping all the while, not to get bitten.

India is not affected by this war as much as Pakistan is so India wouldn't know

While it is true that India is not so affected (atleast directly) by the war, the effects are clearly apparent to India (and the rest of the world).

or maybe it does and just wants to continue seeing Pakistan suffer.

It may surprise you to understand this, but India cannot derive infinite satisfaction at seeing Pakistan suffer forever. It is a cause of concern to India. But never mind that, let us assume that India is full of devils.
How about China. The problem is also on China's doorstep. China undoubtedly has a great deal of goodwill for Pakistan. Does China want USA to withdraw from Afghanistan leaving behind uncompleted tasks? Or is China willing to step in in lieu of the US to help finish the job? Again it may surprise you to know this, both China and India have similar concerns about this matter.

Take your pick, make your choice. You are in the driver's seat (the hot seat) after all.

 

[U-571]

Wow you have pretty low standards with rgds "Golden age".

Abandonment by traditional allies.

Country on the brink of economic melt down.

Most sanctioned country in the world after Libya(Pressler amendments)

Massive corruption.

5 govts in 10yrs

International isolation over an ill thought war.

Extremist time bomb ticking in your backyard.

Is this what you call "Golden age"??

no bomb blasts, nuclear detonation, relative stable and growing economy,example is motorway, intense patriotism, stable neighbour, peaceful afghanistan, increasing foreign relations, no war, peace, no sactarianism, protectin of border soverignty, no drone attacks, no fear of militants, no compromise on kashmir issue.. tourism and agriculture was growing, let to arrests of non state RAW terrorists, exposed indian mischief of shooting pakistani planes in pakistan border, kargil war etc, influence of pakistani media in pakistan(restriction of india media)

corruption was there and will be always be there..., what im giving is a comparison and not the ideal age im talking about..

it was actually 3 governments in ten years not 5, and till 1998 it showed pakistan could handle democracy with need for dictatorship

 

[SMC]

Guys, whether or not Pakistan is doing so good or bad today is not the big picture. You're missing the big picture when you say that Pakistan created problems for itself. If Pakistan did not do what it did, it may have not existed today. At least we exists today. Economy can jumpstart tomorrow if we fix some other problems, and some of those problems are not even that hard to fix (such as getting rid of Zardari and his gang in the upcoming years). But what we did before helped us exist today. That's the big picture missing when Indians talk about this stuff.

 

[Toshiba]

no bomb blasts, nuclear detonation, relative stable and growing economy,example is motorway, intense patriotism, stable neighbour, peaceful afghanistan, increasing foreign relations, no war, peace, no sactarianism, protectin of border soverignty, no drone attacks, no fear of militants, no compromise on kashmir issue.. tourism and agriculture was growing, let to arrests of non state RAW terrorists, exposed indian mischief of shooting pakistani planes in pakistan border, kargil war etc

corruption was there and will be always be there..., what im giving is a comparison and not the ideal age im talking about..

ur biggest mistake was to give ur neck in hands of u.s.
i assure u they wont give it back 2 u.
if they give ,u may have 2 sacrifice a lot.

 

[jayron]

the US presence has done to our country it is today, the 90s decade was the golden age for pakistan, though our democarcy was still bad that time.., we attacked kargil and we had almost won that war it it was not for uncle sam bully..

we were enjoying relations with talibans in 90s, and they were our friends

afghanistan is our backyard, we have to formulate policies to keep it and pakistan stable

Did US create TTP or who ever is bombing your country everyday? Just because both are happening at the same time it doesn't mean one has caused another. Your army with so much power is still reluctant or unwilling to tackle the militants and instead they are using them as a pet. Each of the Pakistani members here have one version of what is happening in your country . You just want to demonize US and act victims yourself.

Mindless acts just for the sake of pride, like Kargil has what brought this state to Pakistan. With the Kargil hill captured, will Pakistan become a Switzerland overnight?

 

[Omar1984]

.Do you really think so? Can you be sure that it will not be a replay of the past? Or do you look forward to the prospect of sorting out the good taliban from the bad taliban by yourselves. It will be as enjoyable a task as trying to differentiate between a good cobra and a bad cobra. While hoping all the while, not to get bitten.

There was no such thing as bad taliban for Pakistan before the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. The original Afghan Taliban never harmed Pakistan. They never even harmed America. U.S. blames Al Qaeda for the 9/11 attacks not Afghan Taliban.

TTP terrorists were formed after the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. There was no such thing as TTP 7 years ago.

Pakistani people are not stupid to put all these groups as one and blindly shoot at everyone. We dont have a trillion dollars to spent on a war like America does.

While it is true that India is not so affected (atleast directly) by the war, the effects are clearly apparent to India (and the rest of the world).

When did TTP terrorists ever blow themselves killing innocent civilians in india.

India is no where near affected like Pakistan is because of this war. Too much Pakistani blood has been spilled in this war. The world is by far more dangerous now than before U.S. invasion of Afghanistan.

U.S. is screwing itself and screwing Pakistan with this war. india is not affected. india is doing better now than before the U.S. invasion of Afghanistan. For Pakistan, its been the opposite.

It may surprise you to understand this, but India cannot derive infinite satisfaction at seeing Pakistan suffer forever. It is a cause of concern to India. But never mind that, let us assume that India is full of devils.
How about China. The problem is also on China's doorstep. China undoubtedly has a great deal of goodwill for Pakistan. Does China want USA to withdraw from Afghanistan leaving behind uncompleted tasks? Or is China willing to step in in lieu of the US to help finish the job? Again it may surprise you to know this, both China and India have similar concerns about this matter.

Take your pick, make your choice. You are in the driver's seat (the hot seat) after all.

LOL China doesnt want U.S. in its neighborhood nor does Iran want U.S. in its neighborhood. Only india wants U.S. in its neighborhood while india doesn't share a border with Afghanistan. Only Pakistan, Iran, China, and Central Asian Republics share borders with Afghanistan. Do any of these countries show as much support for U.S. being in Afghanistan as indians do?

Afghan Taliban doesnt have any problems with China. And dont worry about China, ISI is helping China with its Uyghur problem. In 2009, Pakistani intelligence agencies helped the Chinese government of catching several suspected Uyghur terrorists.


Like every nation, Pakistan will only look after its own interests.

 

[Von Hölle]

no bomb blasts, nuclear detonation, relative stable and growing economy,example is motorway, intense patriotism, stable neighbour, peaceful afghanistan, increasing foreign relations, no war, peace, no sactarianism, protectin of border soverignty, no drone attacks, no fear of militants, no compromise on kashmir issue.. tourism and agriculture was growing, let to arrests of non state RAW terrorists, exposed indian mischief of shooting pakistani planes in pakistan border, kargil war etc, influence of pakistani media in pakistan(restriction of india media)

corruption was there and will be always be there..., what im giving is a comparison and not the ideal age im talking about..

Bomb Blasts
As i said extremist time bomb was ticking..all the ingredients were in place all that was needed was catalyst ...which came in form of US invasion of Afgahnistan.

Economy

Average growth rate in 1990 was little over 4%..forex reserves were non existent..at the time of nuclear explosion..when Pakistan came under even worse sanction ..pakistan's forex stood at $1 billion..motorway were just superficial growth..real infrastructure which is required for sustained economic development was not developed.

Stable neighbor- peaceful Afghanistan
is just a myth..there was civil war going in Afghanistan for better part of the decade..Taliban came to power in 1996 was one of the bloodiest period in Afghanistan.. they pushed Afghanistan into dark ages..their treatment of women was abysmal.

No Sectarian killings
Again you are misinformed about your country.. sectarian violence which started in 1960s..has continued since.

Here some info on Sect killings in 1990.
Sectarian Violence in Pakistan

Kashmir

Ingredients..which you had prepared for kashmir..are what, which is haunting you these days..even with all your antics you haven't been able to take an inch kashmir..but as a byproduct of those antics ..you have manged to set your own house on fire.

Atlantique incident-

your naval plane came in to our airspace(just days after Kargil war) ..we ordered it to change course and land at Indian airbase..instead it changed course tried to dash towards border...we shot it down ..

Pakistan filed lawsuit($60 million) in International court of Justice, spent four hundred thousand dollars in the case but lost the case..how is it a "Golden era" moment for Pakistan??

Kargil war

was the worst tragedy for Pakistan in 1990s ..it did not gain an inch of land... lost 2500 hundred lives in the process..tried to lie but was caught ..was ridiculed internationally for its sneak attack..brought peace process started after Lahore Summit ..did irreparable damage to its Kashmir cause.

Nuclear explosions

Pakistan had already developed nuclear bomb in 1980s ..had it not exploded(just like Israel never has)..it would not have come under sanctions..could have got a lot for free goodies from US(eg F-16s)..explosion of Nuclear device has not empowered it with any special advantage, which it already did not posses from before.

it was actually 3 governments in ten years not 5, and till 1998 it showed pakistan could handle democracy with need for dictatorship

It was 5.. PPP was in power in 1990 ..In later part of 1990 Nawaz sharif came into power...1993 again PPP came into power..in 1997 Nawaz sharif came into power..In 1999 Musharaff came into power

 

[Peshwa]

Guys, whether or not Pakistan is doing so good or bad today is not the big picture. You're missing the big picture when you say that Pakistan created problems for itself. If Pakistan did not do what it did, it may have not existed today. At least we exists today. Economy can jumpstart tomorrow if we fix some other problems, and some of those problems are not even that hard to fix (such as getting rid of Zardari and his gang in the upcoming years). But what we did before helped us exist today. That's the big picture missing when Indians talk about this stuff.

This same Paranoia has crafted Pakistan's flawed foreign policy.....the glaring results of which can be seen today.....

Pray tell...why is it that countries much smaller and less capable than Pakistan dont sufffer from such paranoia?

Existance should be the least of your problems.....Dependency on foreign powers....which is the biggest problem (strangely a by product of the Pakistani policy based on imagined paranoia) will probably lead to a state much worse....IMHO.

 

[U-571]

ur biggest mistake was to give ur neck in hands of u.s.
i assure u they wont give it back 2 u.
if they give ,u may have 2 sacrifice a lot.

we gave them our backyard, and we will now take it away anyway

 

[U-571]

Did US create TTP or who ever is bombing your country everyday? Just because both are happening at the same time it doesn't mean one has caused another. Your army with so much power is still reluctant or unwilling to tackle the militants and instead they are using them as a pet. Each of the Pakistani members here have one version of what is happening in your country . You just want to demonize US and act victims yourself.

Mindless acts just for the sake of pride, like Kargil has what brought this state to Pakistan. With the Kargil hill captured, will Pakistan become a Switzerland overnight?

thank god, pakistan was in the show to protect afghanistan, other wise, it would have be in the menace a long time ago!!!

taliban is a tribal region, its very hard to control, and its upto country called pakistan to manage it after soviets..not countries like india, iran, central asian states..US

 

[Tshering22]

LOL China doesnt want U.S. in its neighborhood nor does Iran want U.S. in its neighborhood.

Think again. If you're aware of world political scenario, Putin and Hu both have supported US presence "for the welfare of Afghanistan". In fact, Russia's never been more cooperative with US than now especially on Afghanistan. China concerns itself with Afghanistan only till its resource coffers are filled with tonnes of minerals and that they're getting even with US presence. Why on earth would they bother with what US wants to do in future?

In fact, as US is facing troubles, it has invited all other parties to Afghanistan as well. Russia and Iran are the latest players in the country. Did you know US-Russia have already run anti-drug operations together?

All this "attack Iran" is simply hot air which US if needed, will reverse overnight. Remember Gaddafi's Libya was a cut-throat enemy of US too. But in 2 visits of Rice to the country and everything changed. How long do you think it would take US to pull out a big ticket offer to Iran under the table and get them distracted from Israel and consider Afghanistan? Not even a week.

All these "patriotic brave speeches" that Pakistanis adore here by Ahmadinejad is for local consumption only. Once a big ticket prize is offered, Iran may not become pro-US, but it will stop publicly criticizing them. That's enough to get them into Afghanistan.

Only india wants U.S. in its neighborhood while india doesn't share a border with Afghanistan.

We want the US to stay because our $ 2.2 billions of goodwill are at stake. And if you're asking that why we're interested in Afghanistan, we just want a friendly government there and to win the trust of people through development of non-military nature.

Only Pakistan, Iran, China, and Central Asian Republics share borders with Afghanistan. Do any of these countries show as much support for U.S. being in Afghanistan as indians do?

Iran is non-committal towards US attack except initially in early 2000s. China as I said has already issued a joint statement with Russians for supporting US presence as Americans keep terrorists occupied, leaving Chinese companies relatively safer to pursue economic interests. CAR's border with Afghanistan is the reason why Russia's having sleepless nights. Remember that barring Uzbekistan, no one is capable to tackle Taliban there and Uzbekistan is also suffering from Islamist terrorism already. This means if anything goes wrong in Afghanistan, Russians will have to step in as a lot of their stuff is still in CAR countries and that won't be a cakewalk.

Afghan Taliban doesnt have any problems with China. And dont worry about China, ISI is helping China with its Uyghur problem. In 2009, Pakistani intelligence agencies helped the Chinese government of catching several suspected Uyghur terrorists.

We're not worrying about China; CCP is. All this cooperation with ISI is nice and all but do remember that China already stated its intentions on US presence as I said above. Google it if you find it hard to believe.

 

[SMC]

This same Paranoia has crafted Pakistan's flawed foreign policy.....the glaring results of which can be seen today.....

Pray tell...why is it that countries much smaller and less capable than Pakistan dont sufffer from such paranoia?

Existance should be the least of your problems.....Dependency on foreign powers....which is the biggest problem (strangely a by product of the Pakistani policy based on imagined paranoia) will probably lead to a state much worse....IMHO.

Maybe paranoia to you, but it's reality as far as we're concerned. Our existence would have been trouble had we not supported anti-soviet insurgents.

 

[Tshering22]

thank god, pakistan was in the show to protect afghanistan, other wise, it would have be in the menace a long time ago!!!

Protect Afghanistan? You ruined it beyond repair and sent it flying 3 centuries back! Ask an Afghan who's family has been ripped apart by Taliban's savages about how "safe" Afghanistan was under their regime. He'll tell you how "wonderfully" you did your work.

taliban is a tribal region, its very hard to control, and its upto country called pakistan to manage it after soviets..not countries like india, iran, central asian states..US

Iran has considerable influence in western Afghanistan. Taliban are a creation of radical terrorists who rule through brute force and extreme misinterpretation of religion for their own selfish power. CAR don't care about Afghanistan but Taliban will affect them and hence affect Russia so they are worried.

Russia suffered because of terrain problems and NATO funds pouring into Afghanistan via you lot; US suffered because it didn't listen to either Russians or us in following a more reasonable strategy than carpet bombing the country. But the latter is in a better position than Russia because it took efforts to change its earlier mistakes.

Your control of them was simply to use them as a proxy army, of which even that influence has gone.

 

[Omar1984]

Protect Afghanistan? You ruined it beyond repair and sent it flying 3 centuries back! Ask an Afghan who's family has been ripped apart by Taliban's savages about how "safe" Afghanistan was under their regime. He'll tell you how "wonderfully" you did your work.

Afghan Taliban are Afghans themselves from Afghanistan. Pakistan only recognized them when they ruled Afghanistan and we did that to protect our western borders with Afghanistan. Not only Pakistan, but Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates also recognized Taliban rule of Afghanistan.

Pakistan only recognized these people. They were not working under our command.

Iran has considerable influence in western Afghanistan. Taliban are a creation of radical terrorists who rule through brute force and extreme misinterpretation of religion for their own selfish power. CAR don't care about Afghanistan but Taliban will affect them and hence affect Russia so they are worried.

Russia suffered because of terrain problems and NATO funds pouring into Afghanistan via you lot; US suffered because it didn't listen to either Russians or us in following a more reasonable strategy than carpet bombing the country. But the latter is in a better position than Russia because it took efforts to change its earlier mistakes.

Your control of them was simply to use them as a proxy army, of which even that influence has gone.

If Iran, Russia, CAR's, China all hate Afghan Taliban so much then why dont they send their armies into Afghanistan to fight Afghan Taliban. Russia is not even allowing NATO military supplies to travel through its soil to reach Afghanistan like Pakistan is allowing. Why isn't Iran allowing NATO supplies to run through its territory. Iran also has sea ports and a border with Afghanistan. Why only U.S and NATO are involved in this fight if everyone in the world are against these Afghan Taliban (who had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11 attacks).


No one (except indians) will lose sleep when U.S. withdraws from Afghanistan. And expect many celebrations in Muslim majority countries (even Iran) when U.S. withdraws from Afghanistan.

 

[fallstuff]

McCain is losing it, he is losing the sense of priority. If there is threat from Afghanistan to USA, deal with it, if not get the hell out.