Afghan wants 150 Battle tanks and 1 Squadron of Attack choppers from India

[sancho]

So the point I'm making is that our decision should be based on our own interests, NOT what an unreasonable junta ruled state like pakistan thinks.

Who said it isn't in our interest to A not sell Afghanistan heavy weaponary, B to not prove the wrong notion in Pakistan, that anything India does has to do with them?

Point A is important, because Afghanistan is far from being a stable country and the failed attempt of the US to defeat the Taliban will bring them back to power again, even if it will be partial power. So unless we know how such weapons would be used there, or if they can end up somday in future to fight us, it is in our interest to be cautious!
Point B is a logical one, having peace and stable conditions in India in the last 1.5 decades gave us economical progress, getting back into an arms race by provoking Pakistan, without any real benefit (as if the Afghans with some old T72s would pose a threat to Pak forces), would be counter-productive again. Same reason why India and China, even with border issues and different opinions on Tibet, Pakistan..., are focusing on economy mainly, because that's the best for the progress of both countries. Earlier this year we wanted to send miltary to drag them out of our border regions and now we have joint military exercises. So it is possible to do both, be aware of a possible threat and prepare for the worst case, but mainly focus on the greater good!

I would sell the Afghans the Mi35s when we get replacements, personally even some jags to have propper CAS support, but not heavy weapons like MBTs. The stability of Afghanistan is in Indias interest and they need certain arms for that, but it's not in our interest to beef up another country in our region, we already have too many of them (looking at Arab countries).

 

[janon]

stocking weapons for backstabbing, It is clear knowledge that india has used Afghanistan as a backyard. now we will have to build up military on both sides of the border

If there is one country that has used afghanistan for strategic depth, it is not India.

If they are having to fight talibunnies today, guess who's mistake that was?

 

[MilSpec]

Who said it isn't in our interest to A not sell Afghanistan heavy weaponary, B to not prove the wrong notion in Pakistan, that anything India does has to do with them?

Point A is important, because Afghanistan is far from being a stable country and the failed attempt of the US to defeat the Taliban will bring them back to power again, even if it will be partial power. So unless we know how such weapons would be used there, or if they can end up somday in future to fight us, it is in our interest to be cautious!
Point B is a logical one, having peace and stable conditions in India in the last 1.5 decades gave us economical progress, getting back into an arms race by provoking Pakistan, without any real benefit (as if the Afghans with some old T72s would pose a threat to Pak forces), would be counter-productive again. Same reason why India and China, even with border issues and different opinions on Tibet, Pakistan..., are focusing on economy mainly, because that's the best for the progress of both countries. Earlier this year we wanted to send miltary to drag them out of our border regions and now we have joint military exercises. So it is possible to do both, be aware of a possible threat and prepare for the worst case, but mainly focus on the greater good!

I would sell the Afghans the Mi35s when we get replacements, personally even some jags to have propper CAS support, but not heavy weapons like MBTs. The stability of Afghanistan is in Indias interest and they need certain arms for that, but it's not in our interest to beef up another country in our region, we already have too many of them (looking at Arab countries).

Completely agree, and the perception of weapon transfer will have a larger effect in the public domain than it's actual tactical value.... For now I would even prefer If India made the payments on behalf of afghanistan for the equipment it needs from russia or ukraine and keep it under wraps.

 

[sancho]

For one thing, why would they buy the listed items from us, rather than from Russia, who is the OEM? Or the USA, who can supply similar stuff from their old stock, and have deep pockets?

Money, soft loans, strategic benefits. Even the Mi 17s are not bought by Afghanistan, but by the US for them, same goes for C27, or possible Brazilian light attack aircrafts, so money should be an issue. Not to mention that they might trust us as a secure supplier and political supporter more than the Russians, or even the US. But India played it nice so far, supported them without getting too involved and should remain that way.

 

[Kompromat]

Are you surprised?

A good bit of its in fact becoming surplus to the Indian Inventory. Then again, most of the material is familiar to the Afghans. So put 2 and 2 together.

I do see it as win-win. But more important it is to continue to provide training to Afghans not only in Uniform but also Civilians; esp Students. And continue to assist development of infra-structure there.



Maybe you don't know it yet...................................but GOD has blessed the idea already.

Are you surprised?

A good bit of its in fact becoming surplus to the Indian Inventory. Then again, most of the material is familiar to the Afghans. So put 2 and 2 together.

I do see it as win-win. But more important it is to continue to provide training to Afghans not only in Uniform but also Civilians; esp Students. And continue to assist development of infra-structure there.



Maybe you don't know it yet...................................but GOD has blessed the idea already.

I'm well aware of Indian intentions, Bania doesn't 'give' anything....

Its Indian attempt to create a civil war in Afghanistan by arming the Northern Army (ANA). Pashtuns are a majority and they will kick them back to the 'North' of Oxus.

Few T-72s or Mi-35s ain't a threat to Pakistan, nor they will be.

In a fact its a good news for Pakistan as more the majority gets alienated, the more they'll be anti ANA (A minority Army) ... By then they'd have an idea of who's arming ANA...

We have a rather large stockpile of goodies in surplus, should the brothers from the other side of D.Line want to start operation Hindu-Kush 2.0.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I hate to rain on everybody's parade, but please note the source - IDRW.

Doesn't have a great reputation for credibility, does it?

(BTW, I think refurbished or even new OFB made BMP-2s will be more useful than T-72s, for the afghans. They can carry troops and fire at talibs, and have enough armour to withstand whatever the Talibs throw at them.)

Good point, this source has a reputation for being unreliable in my book.

But the proposal isn't too far fetched, it is certainly possible that India sells some of it's reserve inventory.

 

[janon]

I'm well aware of Indian intentions, Bania doesn't 'give' anything....

Its Indian attempt to create a civil war in Afghanistan by arming the Northern Army (ANA). Pashtuns are a majority and they will kick them back to the 'North' of Oxus.

Few T-72s or Mi-35s ain't a threat to Pakistan, nor they will be.

In a fact its a good news for Pakistan as more the majority gets alienated, the more they'll be anti ANA (A minority Army) ... By then they'd have an idea of who's arming ANA...

We have a rather large stockpile of goodies in surplus, should the brothers from the other side of D.Line want to start operation Hindu-Kush 2.0.

You really favour the taliban, don't you?

Geopolitics aside, tell me one thing - do you approve of the kind of society that afghans had to live in under their regime?

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I'm well aware of Indian intentions, Bania doesn't 'give' anything....

Its Indian attempt to create a civil war in Afghanistan by arming the Northern Army (ANA). Pashtuns are a majority and they will kick them back to the 'North' of Oxus.

Few T-72s or Mi-35s ain't a threat to Pakistan, nor they will be.

In a fact its a good news for Pakistan as more the majority gets alienated, the more they'll be anti ANA (A minority Army) ... By then they'd have an idea of who's arming ANA...

We have a rather large stockpile of goodies in surplus, should the brothers from the other side of D.Line want to start operation Hindu-Kush 2.0.

LOLLLL. Oh go on........... Gas on Gaston!

Different times Different Games, now...........

You have'nt even understood what the ordnance can do and to whom; but I did not even expect you to!
Right now; you have more than enough on your plate. To keep you busy for a long time yet.
So save your bluster and blather for someone else, dude.
You're knockin' on the wrong door or barkin' up the wrong tree.........in a manner of speakin'.

 

[Jungibaaz]

LOLLLL. Oh go on........... Gas on Gaston!

Different times Different Games, now...........

You have'nt even understood what the ordnance can do and to whom; but I did not even expect you to!
Right now; you have more than enough on your plate. To keep you busy for a long time yet.
So save your bluster and blather for someone else, dude.
You're knockin' on the wrong door or barkin' up the wrong tree.........in a manner of speakin'.

Here's a simple fact:

Should the foreigners lose interests or become unwilling to the extra mile to sustain Afghanistan in it's current state, you will get to know the outcome and the outcome will not be so different from what happened to the DRA after the Soviets left.

The war is not sustainable, another simple fact, whereas it seems the taliban's effort runs on nothing and no matter how much money, effort, time and lives were put in to turn the tide and win, the coalition of all the world's greatest powers haven't won yet.

 

[Sher Malang]

LOLLLL. Oh go on........... Gas on Gaston!

Different times Different Games, now...........

You have'nt even understood what the ordnance can do and to whom; but I did not even expect you to!
Right now; you have more than enough on your plate. To keep you busy for a long time yet.
So save your bluster and blather for someone else, dude.
You're knockin' on the wrong door or barkin' up the wrong tree.........in a manner of speakin'.

Great response! He actually totally forgot that his country is so much edged out this time and involved withing that it could hardly make any stance on Afghanistan - loads of crap will be coming like his sort from other Pakistani members too but the reality is far different. I am very glad that whatever they laughed, rejected, joked upon couple of years ago, today is buzzing the alarms in GHQ!

There is much more coming for Afghanistan in 2014 it's like a child passing from primary school to secondary; lets concentrate on developments between Afghanistan and India, hopefully we can secure our nations from the wrath of our bad wishers and enemies together.

 

[anjaneyashruti]

Uncle Santa Claus.

Christmas is just around the corner.
So: "Jingle Bells, Jingle Bells, Jingle all the way...."

Well in that case sell them that and more.

Make it 300 tanks, 150 LCA and 155 mm Field Artillery from Bharat Forges and Jeeps from Mahindra.

 

[Jungibaaz]

You really favour the taliban, don't you?

Geopolitics aside, tell me one thing - do you approve of the kind of society that afghans had to live in under their regime?

Here was the situation as I see it...

Early on ie 2001-2004ish, Pakistanis has still support for taliban but it was diminishing in some areas and rising in others.

By 2007, the troubles began in Pakistan and a great deal of people began to oppose them.

But now, the will to fight the never ending enemy in a war that is not ours has let Pakistanis look for a solution. Also, the treachery of Karzai (Mayor of Kabul) and his government, along with our allies, who profess to be fighting on the good side, have been accused of supporting the TTP and the BLA, the two major parties that are to blame for the security hell in most of the country (excluding Karachi).

Just a few weeks ago, the US caught Afghan intel red handed aiding TTP senior militants, not only safe passage but valid travel documents, Karzai it seems was only displeased by the fact that the US named and shamed them very openly.

Now why would any sane, self-respecting Pakistani who wants improvement support the status quo?

Now ask yourself, what alternative the Pakistani sees, he says, days were good before and after the arrival of foreign troops and maybe days will be better after they are gone once again. But with Karzai and his mercenaries in the picture, those wont come.

Pakistan does not want Afghanistan to suffer, it only wants it's interests secured so that it does not suffer. You cannot so plainly pick a side and claim the moral ground in this game, too many factors come into play.

 

[janon]

Here's a simple fact:

Should the foreigners lose interests or become unwilling to the extra mile to sustain Afghanistan in it's current state, you will get to know the outcome and the outcome will not be so different from what happened to the DRA after the Soviets left.

The war is not sustainable, another simple fact, whereas it seems the taliban's effort runs on nothing and no matter how much money, effort, time and lives were put in to turn the tide and win, the coalition of all the world's greatest powers haven't won yet.

They did. They routed and ousted the "invincible" talibs/mujahideens from power, and gave the country to a different regime. Sure, the talibs can keep waging a guerilla war - but that doesn't mean that they were not routed from power in the first place. After all, the coalition of the greatest powers achieved what they came to do, which was to dislodge the talibs from power and install a favourable regime.

As to how long they will want to keep that regime in power, how long they will be interested, that is a good point, but my guess is that it will be for a long time. They have a lot invested there, to simply let taliban come to power again in 2014.

The new democratic regime is there to stay, unless voted out by the people - which is the way it should be. US special forces, well trained ANA and USA's global reach can ensure that the talibs will not do more than keep waging geurilla war.

Doing hit and run attacks is one thing, but winning territory is another.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Well in that case sell them that and more.

Make it 300 tanks, 150 LCA and 155 mm Field Artillery from Bharat Forges and Jeeps from Mahindra.

No; that is not possible.
Uncle Santa's Bag is not big enough for all that and his Sleigh's Payload is restricted. Plus his neighborhood Walmart has limited inventory.

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

Here's a simple fact:

Should the foreigners lose interests or become unwilling to the extra mile to sustain Afghanistan in it's current state, you will get to know the outcome and the outcome will not be so different from what happened to the DRA after the Soviets left.

The war is not sustainable, another simple fact, whereas it seems the taliban's effort runs on nothing and no matter how much money, effort, time and lives were put in to turn the tide and win, the coalition of all the world's greatest powers haven't won yet.

You are misinformed,the afghan govt only collapsed after the russians stopped ammunition and fuel subsidies.Before that despite predictions of collapse immediately after soviet departure,it fought on well for 3 years,inflicting heavy defeats as in battle of jalalabad,they were still supported by the russians.Only when russians totally stopped any aid did govt collapse.
But most important of all,it was the afghan people that welcomed taliban back then,thinking these pious fellows will bring justice and order to a war torn country ruled by warlords and total chaos.
Now its different,afghans have seen the true face of taliban and comeback is unfeasible even without any external help.In any case USA not india will remain primary backer of afghanisthan,even though their troops are leaving.Advisors and airpower will remain.Meanwhile the nascent afghan airforce will be slowly growing up.


On topic,i think its a very reasonable request,and we should help them in their need.150 upg t-72,hundred odd 105 mm light howitzers,mortars and the mi-35s is very moderate demand.