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Afghan aggression in Pakistan

Well LTTE killed our PM. They are banned organisation as per our constitution. At least we rolled back that policy.
When do you find any Indian supporting LTTE?
Even Tamil Nadu politicians who don't like Sri Lanka don't support LTTE.
India didn't hinder the Sri Lankan offensive against LTTE.
your country supported morally, materially the tamil tigers --who were a LOT worse

Abu you are editing your posts too quickly. My last response has now become irrelevant as you have removed the LTTE part from your comment.
Also, it could be complicated for the establishment. But I find way too many Pakistanis supporting Taliban which is quite puzzling to me.
 
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When do you find any Indian supporting LTTE?
Even Tamil Nadu politicians who don't like Sri Lanka don't support LTTE.

Really? :laugh:


India didn't hinder the Sri Lankan offensive against LTTE.

they did...which is why Sri Lanka turned to Pakistan and China for ammunition, arms and misc. 'materiel' (which we were happy to provide by the boat-load)

Abu you are editing your posts too quickly. My last response has now become irrelevant as you have removed the LTTE part from your comment.
Also, it could be complicated for the establishment. But I find way too many Pakistanis supporting Taliban which is quite puzzling to me.

i edited nothing
 
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Can you show any link where GOI opposed the SL offensive against LTTE?
LTTE should be another thread anyways but if India wanted it could have sheltered the LTTE leadership..
India's problems with LTTE began after India sent its forces to support the SL government.
Come man, the LTTE is banned by India. They are anti India. They killed India's PM just as they killed SL President.
Really? :laugh:




they did...which is why Sri Lanka turned to Pakistan and China for ammunition, arms and misc. 'materiel' (which we were happy to provide by the boat-load)



i edited nothing

Sorry you didn't edit the post. One of your posts was quickly followed by 5-6 other posts so I missed it. I take it back.

This is the overt and covert Indian policy on LTTE.
Govt extends LTTE ban, says anti-India posture continues - Rediff.com News
At least for the last 20 years. Lets not waste this thread on a dead group.
 
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they hindered it..and worst of all, Sri Lanka rectified the problem bravely and now you move against them and tow the line being used by a few american policy makers (read extortionists)

''genocide'' card.....

but yes its a separate topic so chuck it....my point is, you cant claim any moral high ground here when it comes to the topic of meddling in foreign countries
 
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Lets limit the discussion to Afghanistan.
The fact is Pakistan fears any stable govt in Afghanistan. It supports Taliban in the hope that such a govt will be heavily dependent on Pakistan and would hence toe its line.
At the end of the day, Afghans will always dislike such a policy.
they hindered it..and worst of all, Sri Lanka rectified the problem bravely and now you move against them and tow the line being used by a few american policy makers (read extortionists)

''genocide'' card.....

but yes its a separate topic so chuck it....my point is, you cant claim any moral high ground here when it comes to the topic of meddling in foreign countries

Moral high ground? I'm not even talking of foreign policy here. Why do ordinary and educated Pakistanis support stone age beasts like Taliban?
That's the simple question. Your govt may covertly support them but people?
 
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Afghan nationalism? What are you talking about? If Afghan nationalism entails systematic attacks against Pashtuns then you are sadly in over your head. India has no business playing games in Afghanistan against Pakistan and you can be sure that we won’t sit idly and allow it to happen. India has no ethnic communities that entail crossovers in Afghanistan. We have a large Pashtun community (largest in the world) so obviously if there is unrest in Afghanistan’s south and eastern sector (where Pashtun numbers are high) we simply cant afford to leave the issue unaddressed.

We house over 4 million Afghan refugees….how many refugees did you noble, humanitarian hindustanis take in and feed, house and provide free medical care (a service which some Pakistanis even are not afforded)…





there has been no evolution but I hope there will be b/c Afghans need evolution not revolutions (read insurrections) in their country & society





p.s. as for taleban/''pashtun card'' it appears that even karzai --the widely unpopular puppet of kabul --has invited Mullah Omar to run for elections. He calls the talebs his ''upset brothers'' and even the NATOs are signalling that they are working towards peace talks with moderate elements of this resistance organization (something Pakistan has been advocating since 2001 and something that could have been achieved through coercive diplomacy)
it's interesting that you inferred something like that from my comments. I don't understand what kind of impression I give off to You. I clearly mentioned the issue of Ideological groups and menace they caused along with the already difficult ethnic Issues. I implied that Afghan Nationalism might help in toning down ethnic Tensions.
 
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Lets limit the discussion to Afghanistan.
The fact is Pakistan fears any stable govt in Afghanistan. It supports Taliban in the hope that such a govt will be heavily dependent on Pakistan and would hence toe its line.

rubbish


Moral high ground? I'm not even talking of foreign policy here. Why do ordinary and educated Pakistanis support stone age beasts like Taliban?

That's the simple question. Your govt may covertly support them but people?

its the other way around....govt doesn't support them but there are people (e.g. private donors not just in Pakistan but all over the world) that have provided moral or financial support. The movement however is 100% indigenous Afghan phenomenon

if soviets weren't welcome, deeply unpopular and couldn't occupy Afghanistan, how would talebs be able to if they didnt have local support and backing ... something to think about. No need for you to always give Pakistan all the undue credit.
 
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its the other way around....govt doesn't support them but there are people (e.g. private donors not just in Pakistan but all over the world) that have provided moral or financial support. The movement however is 100% indigenous Afghan phenomenon

if soviets weren't welcome, deeply unpopular and couldn't occupy Afghanistan, how would talebs be able to if they didnt have local support and backing ... something to think about. No need for you to always give Pakistan all the undue credit.


rubbish

Origins of Taliban has been discussed to death, Why do pakistanis keep denying ISI/PA's role in creation of Taliban.
 
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it's interesting that you inferred something like that from my comments. I don't understand what kind of impression I give off to You. I clearly mentioned the issue of Ideological groups and menace they caused along with the already difficult ethnic Issues. I implied that Afghan Nationalism might help in toning down ethnic Tensions.

whatever helps end civil war, civil strife and end to war-lordism of society while also ensuring Afghanistan would no longer be used by Pakistan's enemy(s) to wage war on Pakistan -- we'd all be for it i think

NATO doesnt help when they alienate Pashtuns and groom the ANA which is largely PERCEIVED as an anti Pashtun force (dont take MY word for it though, research and find out yourself)

they alienated Sunni baathists in Iraq, you saw what resulted..same mistakes repeated over and over

rubbish

Origins of Taliban has been discussed to death, Why do pakistanis keep denying ISI/PA's role in creation of Taliban.

we recognized them diplomatically; armed them when the soviets invaded (or were ''invited in'' supposedly, depending on whom you ask)

we supported the mujahideen as it was in our national interests to do so....a sound decision
 
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whatever helps end civil war, civil strife and end to war-lordism of society while also ensuring Afghanistan would no longer be used by Pakistan's enemy(s) to wage war on Pakistan -- we'd all be for it i think

NATO doesnt help when they alienate Pashtuns and groom the ANA which is largely PERCEIVED as an anti Pashtun force (dont take MY word for it though, research and find out yourself)

they alienated Sunni baathists in Iraq, you saw what resulted..same mistakes repeated over and over



we recognized them diplomatically; armed them when the soviets invaded (or were ''invited in'' supposedly, depending on whom you ask)

we supported the mujahideen as it was in our national interests to do so....a sound decision

Agreed Mullah omar was a mujhahideen and lost his eye during a gun battle with the soviets in 1989, but there was no taliban movement back then, was there?

But wait a second , Mullah omar started his taliban career in 1994 by killing some warlord, guess what NO SOVIETS in 1994, only poor afghans who were later butchered, enslaved and pushed into dark ages by taliban.

Hoardes of young students who aged from 14 and above were sent on this holy war from refugee camp madarsas and afghan border regions as talibs "students" who went on to pillage what was left of afghanistan.

As far as Pakistan's support to Mujaheddin's is concerned, what happened to Ahmed Shah Massod, wasn't he a true Afghan patriot, Why did ISI/PA try every trick in the book to kill him.

What about Taliban's draconian rule, when Afghans were being exterminated and forced to be living under some 8th century laws, PA generals were celebrating strategic depth. Your foreign office not only recognised taliban scumbags but also embeded your own military planners and trainers among their forces.

AND now , Pakistan wonders why is there anti-Pakistani sentiment in Afghanistan
 
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whatever helps end civil war, civil strife and end to war-lordism of society while also ensuring Afghanistan would no longer be used by Pakistan's enemy(s) to wage war on Pakistan -- we'd all be for it i think

NATO doesnt help when they alienate Pashtuns and groom the ANA which is largely PERCEIVED as an anti Pashtun force (dont take MY word for it though, research and find out yourself)

they alienated Sunni baathists in Iraq, you saw what resulted..same mistakes repeated over and over

Which in itself is an assumption and Paranoia.

Assumption being Afghanistan will NOT be acting in it's self interest and will be willing to be used by Pakistan's Enemies, by which I presume you are hinting at India.

Paranoia being the notion among all Pakistanis, illiterate, literate like yourself, that India is trying to wage a war against Pakistan.

Clearly, Pakistan still has NO scheme for Afghanistan except accusations that Karzai is an unpopular Puppet and NATO/USA is providing assistance to separatist groups and Jihadi Groups in Pakistan, which is almost a counter accusation of sorts after the OBL raid.

The only thing I can gather from the actions of Pakistani state is that it wants the NATO to let the Afghanistan's Destiny in Pakistani hands or at least let it dictate the terms in the post withdrawal period after 2014. And the US and rest of the stake holders who are already partners in the Afghan Rebuilding are surprised, rightly so, with such proposition from Pakistan.

How can Pakistan expect that it be trusted and entrusted the responsibility of another volatile Nation, given the history pre 9/11 and present situation in Pakistan itself(security, Islamic Extremism, economy), which it is either unwilling or unable to manage?
 
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I'm from the tribal areas –my village is surrounded by Afghanistan from 3 sides; we’ve seen, heard and observed a lot of things…I have friends, former colleagues in the insurgency theatre. so dont try to lecture me on anything on this subject and please don’t say these kind of baseless things like ''this is paranoia'' or ''this is assumption''

let me make that clear...


secondly, it would be worth analyzing Tajikistan --which ALSO broke into a bloody civil war when it got independence in 1991. Today, Tajikistan is still corrupt and authoritarian, but it is also tolerably stable — stable enough for the international community to ''forget'' about it (Uzbekistan as well, they tend to ''export'' their problems like IeU to Afghanistan and by extension, Pakistan)

the turnaround was due largely to an intelligently conceived and successfully implemented intervention by a small U.N. mission and a core of unlikely bedfellows that included Iranian and Russia. Rather than forcing free and fair elections, throwing out warlords, and flooding the country with foreign peacekeepers, the intervening parties opted for a more limited and realistic set of goals. They brokered deals across political factions, tolerated warlords where necessary, and kept the number of outside peacekeeping troops to a minimum. The result has been the emergence of a relatively stable balance of power inside the country, the dissuasion of former combatants from renewed hostilities, and the opportunity for state building to develop organically. The Tajik case suggests that in trying to rebuild a failed state, less may be more.

but is it so, in the case of Afghanistan? Well the NATOs tried a similar strategy, forgetting that 50% of the population is Pashtun and that alienating them was pushing them towards taleban –even those that had no love for them. And again, don’t give Pakistan credit for an Afghan phenomenon, Our hands aren’t clean 100% but then again neither are yours; neither are Russias or US or Saudis or the whole ‘’free world’’ for that matter. Ousting the soviets was a noble cause. They were your allies anyways so based on simple mathematics it made sense to drive them out which, thanks to God, the plan succeeded.

Only real issue of contention is post withdrawal. We asked the world community for HELP – we rallied for Afghan cause even when others had forgotten. What were we left with (apart from a lack of options)?

Taleban didn’t fall from nowhere; they were Adfghans – huge majority of them from mujahideen – and they had upper hand so therefore since they gained power we recognized them diplomatically and politically….so did the Saudis, so did UAE –hell, so did the USA (behind closed doors – remember their delegation to Houston?)

Resist your dogmatic urge to pin everything on Pakistan! Wasay tou aadat hai tumara
 
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Wahhh,
When ever the word taliban comes up, the usual reaction is, ohh we did not create it, we were just neighbors, jus said hi hello to each other.

Untill you accept your fault in creation of Taliban, arming them, financing them and politically supporting them, you will remain in denial!


Usual explanations given by pakistani members are , they were mujhahideens we helped during soviet invasion, FALSE: Taliban was armed recruited, and financed by ISI/PA from starting late 93 early 94 from bordering areas and afghan refugees in madarsas

What were Pakistani military advisors and commanders doing with taliban during the raid on kabul against Massouds forces

Why were there extensive casualties of pakistanis when Ahmed Shah Massoud and his handfull of men, defeated mullah forces in kabul in late 94, why were taliban ressuplied by PA with armored trucks and ammunition to take herat in sept 95.

How the hell did mardarsa trained talibs get 105 mm arty and 60, 81 mm mortar, to pound kabul for straight 45 days?

I still dont find the logical ground where pakistani members claim they had nothing to do with creation, arming, financing and supporting the draconian rule of taliban.
 
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Wow....and to think that all the while I've been under the impression that on a military to military footing, the Indians are capable of obliterating the Pakistani Defence forces. As for NATO....shhhh, they might actually hear you!

Use your head before you use your keyboard. Do you even know what i referred to?
 
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