Advance Super Hornet Why India/US Should Consider It

[SrNair]

it's not an air superiority fighter it's a multi-role fighter.

typical loadout for a super hornet is

1 aim-120
2 aim-9s
1- external fuel tank
1-targeting system
and 6 open weapon hard points for a2g weapons and anti-ship weaponry what not.

We will buy F35 for our CBG ,particularly for INS Vishal .There is a strong chance for that.


Dassault Rafale is expensive but they will give us that entire technology .IAF is quite satisfied with it,

 

[Luca1]

Its fly away cost................

On Topic- India will not go for SH or ASH.

India will go for US jet in only one scenario- if jet is Raptor............

Even if US says yes to raptor, India will still insist on TOT. Which would kill the deal.

We will buy F35 for our CBG ,particularly for INS Vishal .There is a strong chance for that.


Dassault Rafale is expensive but they will give us that entire technology .IAF is quite satisfied with it,

Except the engine tech, of course.

 

[$@rJen]

Its fly away cost................

On Topic- India will not go for SH or ASH.

India will go for US jet in only one scenario- if jet is Raptor............

India will go for US Jets i coming years wait and see especially the navy, if they chose to get EMALS...I'll bet you anytime... its going to be F-35

Even if US says yes to raptor, India will still insist on TOT. Which would kill the deal.

if yes fro US then considering the cost we'll buy in a small quantity where TOT is not needed...

 

[Abingdonboy]

Price. $65 million for Super Hornet add a few million more for Advance Super Hornet

Range. CFTs add as much as 130NM over Super Hornet

Enclosed Weapons Pod. EWP gives the ASH 50% reduce radar cross section compared to Super Hornet block 2

AESA Radar. APG-79 AESA capabilities. Software still seems be a problem but is being ironed out.

Enhanced Engine- 20% thrust increase over stock GE-414 used on Super Hornet and Tejas Mk.II, Gripen NG

Next Gen Cockpit- looks like it took some pointers from the F-35

Internal IRST- intergrated IRST

A damn fine machine but, as @Horus correctly pointed out, India won't consider this because of the lack of ToT the USG would be willing to clear (Boeing don't get much of a say on this) and the fact the Indian Mil/Govt is still wary of becoming overly dependent on any one source especially the US.


The Rafale is a good platform with a lot of room for future growth (the Super Hornet is about at the end of its road map), a significant amount of the critical tech will be transferred to India and the French are reliable partners for India, win win win.


The F-18 originally failed to meet up to the IAF's technical criteria and there is simply no way for it to re-enter the fray, no way, no how.

The only reason F-18 SH was not selected because Rafale and EFT performed better in technical parameters.

Actually the F-18 explicitly failed certain technical criteria, specifically the high-altitude Leh engine start up trails IIRC.

 

[Kompromat]

I think Saudi Navy is considering these.

 

[ptldM3]

India needs to cut down on aircraft platforms, adding the F-18 is just another headache in terms maintenance and weapons. India already has aircraft that can perform similar tasks as the F-18.

Let me try to list all of the aircraft India uses:

SU-30mki
Jaguar
Mig-21
Mig-29
Mig-29K
Mig-27
Harrier
Tejas
Pak-fa (future)
Rafale (future)

 

[Abingdonboy]

I think Saudi Navy is considering these.

Should go well with their F-15SAs except I don't really see the need for the Saudi Navy to get F-18s considering they have no carriers. They might as well go for some of the land-based fighters their sister arm (Air Force) operates such as the F-15 or EFT.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

India needs to cut down on aircraft platforms, adding the F-18 is just another headache in terms maintenance and weapons. India already has aircraft that can perform similar tasks as the F-18.

Let me try to list all of the aircraft India uses:

SU-30mki
Jaguar
Mig-21
Mig-29
Mig-29K
Mig-27
Harrier
Tejas
Pak-fa (future)
Rafale (future)

Harrier will be gone soon, and Mig 21/27 will be sided by mmrca.


This thread was for F18 as the mmrca, instead of Rafale.

 

[Abingdonboy]

India needs to cut down on aircraft platforms, adding the F-18 is just another headache in terms maintenance and weapons. India already has aircraft that can perform similar tasks as the F-18.

Let me try to list all of the aircraft India uses:

SU-30mki
Jaguar
Mig-21
Mig-29
Mig-29K
Mig-27
Harrier
Tejas
Pak-fa (future)
Rafale (future)

MiG-27, MiG-27 and some Jaguar Sqns will be replaced/are being replaced by MKIs, Tejas and Rafales And the Harrier will be retired next year along with the INS Viraat with the MiG-29K being the mainstay of the Indian Navy's aviation arm now.

 

[Screambowl]

Looking at our geopolitical situation, I would rather want India to invest in Raptor on some aircraft in that league. No more foreign 4.5 generation now. Because India needs to be more self capable in the design and production of fighters and invest more money in domestic production. Buying everytime will not make our industry self capable.

 

[Bang Galore]

The Rafale is a good platform with a lot of room for future growth (the Super Hornet is about at the end of its road map), a significant amount of the critical tech will be transferred to India and the French are reliable partners for India, win win win.

Hardly a clear win win win situation. Too many doubters, both on the price as well as technical aspects of the deal.

The F-18 originally failed to meet up to the IAF's technical criteria and there is simply no way for it to re-enter the fray, no way, no how.


Actually the F-18 explicitly failed certain technical criteria, specifically the high-altitude Leh engine start up trails IIRC.

Boeing offered a changed engine that would have solved the problem they faced but the MoD/IAF didn't allow for any changes.

Without going into the merits or the real possibility of SH/ASH being bought, your assertion that there is no way in is wrong. A direct buy is possible with a government to government deal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hardly a clear win win win situation. Too many doubters, both on the price as well as technical aspects of the deal.

Many of these doubters have been proven to be wrong, there is a lot of misinformation out there but the truth will become clear soon enough once the deal is signed and the full details of the deal come out.

Boeing offered a changed engine that would have solved the problem they faced but the MoD/IAF didn't allow for any changes.

It would have been totally inappropriate for the MoD/IAF to allow a revision to the products the OEMs offered once the selection/trail process had begun.

A direct buy is possible with a government to government deal.

The GoI has shown it will only use govt-govt deals in extreme cases where there are no viable alternatives to the product on offer. There is no way the GoI could now push through a govt-govt deal for the F-18 after almost 8 years of the MMRCA running.

 

[SQ8]

Should go well with their F-15SAs except I don't really see the need for the Saudi Navy to get F-18s considering they have no carriers. They might as well go for some of the land-based fighters their sister arm (Air Force) operates such as the F-15 or EFT.

Its the Saudis, they'll buy stuff without question. There is a nice story narrated about the Saudis by a very senior PAF officer in his book: Back in the 60s the Saudis were looking for a new fighter.. and had asked the PAF to advise them. The offers were from Lockheed with the F-104, Northrop with the F-5 and English Electric with the Lightening. After evaluations the PAF highly recommended the F-5, placed the F-104 a poor second and completely dismissed the Lightening; The Saudis went straight ahead and bought the lightening. When the shocked PAF teams asked the Saudis about their decision their logic was that since the PAF had not even operated the F-5 yet it was placed in first and the 104 that they did operate was placed such a poor second.. the Saudis decided that in reality the Lightening must be the best aircraft.. although in reality as the Al-Yamama contracts showed.. it was all about kickbacks and bribes between the parent(British) and the offspring(House of Saud). The Typhoon purchase probably has similar logic to it.
The Mirage-4000 project was actually financed in part by the Saudis yet in the end they suddenly ended up purchasing the F-15. So Saudi(for that matter many GCC nations) purchases are still more motivated by relations with the right princes and Supercar gifts than with actual performance.

 

[Bang Galore]

Many of these doubters have been proven to be wrong, there is a lot of misinformation out there but the truth will become clear soon enough once the deal is signed and the full details of the deal come out.

You may well be right but the doubters are not in a short supply & I don't believe that will change even if a deal is signed.

It would have been totally inappropriate for the MoD/IAF to allow a revision to the products the OEMs offered once the selection/trail process had begun.

Didn't argue that but it would have left us in a far better scenario than the present where Dassault is allegedly charging more .

There is no way the GoI could now push through a govt-govt deal for the F-18 after almost 8 years of the MMRCA running.

That's pretty much the option left if the Rafale deal is called off. Whether the government chooses Su30mki/Su35 or any other or whether it does an improbable deal with the Americans (which I doubt very much), it is essentially going to be a government to government deal.

 

[Abingdonboy]

You may well be right but the doubters are not in a short supply & I don't believe that will change even if a deal is signed.

Like that matters, you and I both know the vast majority of these doubters don't have a clue when it comes to such matters.

Didn't argue that but it would have left us in a far better scenario than the present where Rafale is allegedly charging more .

The key word there sir- "allegedly".

All recent media reports from the responsible media (along with the informed MoD officials and Dasualt CEO) have quoted far more reasonable price.


Alas, all we can do is wait and see.....