Adolf Hitler and the side of History never before seen.

[notorious_eagle]

The war was lost on the Eastern Front. Moscow was a key battle, and after Stalingrad, all hope was lost. The U-boat warfare, the Afrika Korps etc., were just side-shows. Soviet Union had help from Lend-lease etc., but ultimately the credit goes to them for the bulk of the fighting. There are several theories on the possible scenarios for German victory in WWII. But, I think the vastness of the Soviet Union, the help from "General Winter", and the resilience of the Soviets all helped.

As they say; World War 2 was won by the blood of the Soviets, determination of the British and treasure of the US.

No. IMHO, the loss in Battle Of Britain was the point where the Third Reich started crumbling and many mistakes were made. Had the Nazis won the skies over Britain, UK would have been easily invaded (that was the follow up plan no?), there would have been no Normandy or D-Day! The allies got a solid base in the European Theater and with Rommel's mistakes gained the valuable foothold in France on D-Day! That loss prompted Hitler and his Generals to look for glory on the eastern front, which again as history teaches us, was in vain.

I forgot the name of the book but i read that Hitler hated the Soviets and especially the communists with vengeance, he wanted to destroy them and thus came the term 'Lebensraum'. There are several accounts that he longed for invasion to the East and create the living space he so desperately desired enabling the Reich to grow. Hitler still could have beat back the forces in Normandy if he was allowed to concentrate all his forces in the West. But since the bulk of all Nazi Forces were concentrated on the East, it allowed the Allies to exploit this weakness in the West. The bulk of casualties and attrition suffered by Nazi Germany was on her Eastern Front, thus i would argue that 'Battle of Stalingrad' led to Hitler's downfall.

 

[A1Kaid]

As they say; World War 2 was won by the blood of the Soviets, determination of the British and treasure of the US.

And the imprudence of Hitler.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The invasion of the Soviet Union took place in Summer, but conflict stretched into winter time, they thought the war with Soviet union would be over before winter.

That was pretty stupid of them then.

 

[A1Kaid]

That was pretty stupid of them then.

They had all the capability, man power, fire power, money, will power, tactics and skill to finish their core objectives against the Soviets as planned. However, I'll be brief here and say Hitler had expanded operations further into the Soviet Union which led to certain unintended consequences.

 

[notorious_eagle]

Many of the Hitler soldiers continued to fight till last bullet even after the end of war unlike Stalin men who would surrender at first opportunity and had to be forced into fighting by death squads. A company of American forces which came into a confrontation with small pocket of resistance in German forest manned by teenagers described the toughness of last man last bullet war fighting mentality infused among the Nazi forces.

You could not be more wrong about this, if the average Soviet soldier was a coward as you state, we would be speaking German right now. The Soviets fought with exceptional bravery and valour despite the heavily tilted odds against them in the beginning. They fought 'Battles of Annihilation' against the Germans, and in the end their determination proved superior to that of the Germans which brought the eventual downfall of Nazi Germany. The thinking among the average Soviet soldier was simple, they would fight till the last man for the defence of the 'Motherland' or die trying.

They had all the capability, man power, fire power, money, will power, tactics and skill to finish their core objectives against the Soviets as planned. However, I'll be brief here and say Hitler had expanded operations further into the Soviet Union which led to certain unintended consequences.

He peeled away the main three armies that were thrusting towards Moscow to secure the breadbaskets and the oil fields. If the Germans would have taken Moscow and put an end to all the Soviet transmissions and C&C, it would have been a huge setback for the Soviets. But i am still not convinced that the Germans had enough manpower, logistical supply lines and the number of aircrafts and the mechanized assets to drive all the way to the Urals. 40 Soviet Divisions were still intact in Siberia which were never transferred towards the West and looking at the geography of Urals pretty much ensures that taking them over would not have been easy.

 

[doppelganger]

The second world war was won by the Russians. Plain and simple.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were the last throw of the dice of the American war machinery looking at a post war balance of power.

The cold war began before the hot war ended.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

The bulk of casualties and attrition suffered by Nazi Germany was on her Eastern Front, thus i would argue that 'Battle of Stalingrad' led to Hitler's downfall.

The Battle of Stalingrad was one of the bloodiest battles in history, and was probably the biggest blow to the Nazi War Machine during the entirety of WW2.

Though the Nazis were already losing their momentum after the Battle of Moscow.

The heart of the Nazi war effort died somewhere in the cold of Russia.

 

[gubbi]

I forgot the name of the book but i read that Hitler hated the Soviets and especially the communists with vengeance, he wanted to destroy them and thus came the term 'Lebensraum'. There are several accounts that he longed for invasion to the East and create the living space he so desperately desired enabling the Reich to grow. Hitler still could have beat back the forces in Normandy if he was allowed to concentrate all his forces in the West. But since the bulk of all Nazi Forces were concentrated on the East, it allowed the Allies to exploit this weakness in the West. The bulk of casualties and attrition suffered by Nazi Germany was on her Eastern Front, thus i would argue that 'Battle of Stalingrad' led to Hitler's downfall.

Hitler despised anyone who was not an "Aryan" German! Ofcourse Hitler had a no-aggression pact with the Soviets, one that he subsequently did not wish to honor! But for the time being, he knew that it was in his best interests to keep the Soviets at bay while he tried to dominate entire Europe, including the UK. Alas that failed. When that happened, Hitler concentrated his attention on the Eastern front. Even that failed. All this in the early '41-'42! Rest as they say, is history.

Allied invasion of European mainland was only a matter of time. This when the bulk of the Nazi forces, contrary to what you say, was concentrated at Rommel's Atlantic Wall! The Nazis were expecting an allied invasion of Europe when they failed to conquer UK.

Although the Eastern Front of the European Theater was the bloodiest in terms of human losses, you have to take into account the type of warfare waged! The Soviets, initially, literally threw hundreds of thousands upon hundreds of thousands of soldiers at the Nazis in human waves, a la trench warfare! This carried on till the stagnation and subsequent Nazi losses at Stalingrad!! So both sides did not make any major advances till the allies set foot on the continent!

And the Battle of Britain was the first major loss of the Nazi military juggernaut, which ultimately led to its downfall.

 

[Echo_419]

If the nazis had won conquering Moscow Leningrad & Stalingrad then what was next can anyone explain me

 

[jhungary]

First of all, this have been talked about over and over and over again

THERE ARE NO POINT TO TAL ABOUT THE PAST AND TRYING AND SEE IF GERMANY WILL WIN IF ANYTHING HAPPENED OTHERWISE.

History happened for a reason, if this is not that, there will be another. So If Germany did not win in a certain war, the History will not change much if they did or did not do something differently. This is what people need to know first.

Many people studied Nazi Germany during WW2 and many more studied Hilter, some call him the Single Most Geniusous man in the 20th Century and some, rather, msot people called him the Stupidest man in 20th Century.

WW2, as a topic is widely studied in the Military Academy. And we have done numerous research and numeous "Role Play" to try to win the war for Germany, before tell you what we have done and what is the result. Let recap what is the turning point of WW2 which did happened and swing to Allied Favor.

1940 : Battle of Britain

Widely considered the Major Engagement before America and Russia got sucked into the war. Also widely believed to be the battle that changed the Britain view on the war.

When the Luftwaffe stop attacking the British Military Target instead going for Civilian. It let the British have a restful respite and using their own citizen as bait, Britain restart their Military Production and Military Operation.

The problem with Nazi is, even if they win over Britain in Battle of Britain, they are still 1 Battle behind a total conquest of Western Europe. The main goal of Battle of Britain being Pulling the Brits into the Nazi Camp instead of Physical trimph over Britain, if the Brits stay untouched by the result of Battle of Britain, Germany would have a tradition seaborne action on hand, if Germany wanted to subdue the Brits. And with Germany Naval Asset, an Seaborne invasion are not favorable to Germany.

1939-1945 Battle of the Atlantic

Many people believe the Major Turning point of WW2 is the entry of Soviet Russia and Battle of Stalingard , actually the WW2 have been won by the allied on Battle of the Atlantic years ago. With a continous undisrupted supply chain linking US/Canada to the UK and Archangel in Russia. This mean an uninterrupted Supply of mineral, food, ammunition to those part of the world and have them continue to fight on. Without those supply, UK and Russia cannot even hold for months, if not Days. As the old saying goes, you can fight without water for 3 days, then you will die from Dehydration, you can fight for 40 days without food, then you wil ldie from Hunger. But you cannot fight for 1 second if you do not have ammunition.

What happened if the Allied lost the Battle of the Atlantic?? Well, basically, one of the two can happen.

Either the Allied trying to supply the UK and Russia by land/air. Or an alternative route to divert supply to Russia and the UK.
Land/Air Supply is doable but not viable, It kind of depend on a third party in both case and the third party are both non-belligent of the war. (Ireland in the UK and Sweden on the USSR). This is doable because supply a warring country is not a mean to break neutrality. And the rules are not enforced in any strong mean anyway. Most noticibly how Sweden and Switzerland allow Germany soldier transfer between fronts. However, would they help the respective coutry is an whole another sotry. Hence this is deemed doable but not viable.

However, this is totally doable for a alternative route. Which is, instead the US/Canada launch their convoy from the atlantic, they launch their convoy from the pacific. And a reversed battle will ensue (Convoy resuuply Archangel first, then Britain) the defeat of Battle of Atlantic will most definitely result in a similar battle in the Pacific. Only Germany would have less influence to the battle and the outcome will be sided with Allied nation.

Not to mention a single Germany do not have the power and resource to blockade 2 country in 1 continous action to start with. So even then, the chances of winning battle of the atlantic

- ENd of Part 1, continued -

 

[Amolthebest]

The real fact is the second war was a fight between two bulls with ambitions to become world ruler. Third world countries had not anything to do with that war

 

[jhungary]

Part 2

1941 : America enter the war after attack of Pearl harbor

One of the undisputed turning point is America joing the war on the Allied side. The question is simple, either what if Pearl harbor never happen and America have no reason to enter the war on allied side? Or what if America was hitted critically in Pear Harbor and do not recover from it??

The first one is simple, even without Pearl Harbor, US will eventually enter the war sided with Allied nation. From the begining of hostility, US were more leaned on Allied side from the word "Get go" From American Water exclusion zone during the battle of atlantic and to the Lend-Least Program. The United States are always in favor of the Brits and the French. And looking from the actual even whenUS joining the war. THe UK is on the blink and the France is gone. THe only way US do not join their camp is most probably when the UK is fallen too. But as illustrated eariler, it is more or less impossible as the Germany do not process a strong enough navy to support their seaborne operation.

While the second senario seems more than likely preventing US to do anything to Germany, well, initially. But again, the japanese damage tp the pearl is extensive and most of all, the naval base in the Pacific operate totally independently fomr the naval bases in the atlantic. So the estimates are, the destruction of the pacific fleet will not bring much of a different to the atlantic fleet, if any.

End of part 2 - continue tomorrow

 

[somebozo]

Which every way we put it,

Hitler killed 6 Million Jews and we get jail terms for holocaust denial.
Stalin killed 40 Million Soviet Citizens and it decorated as a hero.

Life is not fair!

 

[TheJewverine]

 

[Desert Fox]

The Fuhrer was undisputed smartest leader of WW2 but his greed got the best of him and instead of consolidating his gains and making Germany more stronger, he became obsessed with land grab and empire expansion.

Wrong. Hitler and his party's goals were, when they had come to power, to rebuild Germany's industrial capabilities, to provide jobs to millions of German people and make Germany economically independent, politically independent, and finally unite all German speaking people with the 3rd Reich. This included the re-joining of all German pre-WW1 territories that had been taken from Germany following the Treaty of Versailles.

Stalin was the dumbest prick of WW2 only to have his a55 saved by the weather and later American aid.

You have it wrong, It was Churchill, Roosevelt, and later Truman who were the dumbest pricks of WW2, by fighting Hitler they allowed Communism to expand. For Stalin, besides the initial German invasion of the Soviet Union, everything else was going according to plan. Stalin predicted the expansion of Communism years before WW2 started, and he was proved right. Communism expanded outside the boundaries of the Soviet Union, from the Koreas to East Germany, from China to Vietnam and Cambodia.

The German nation never really accepted their defeat at WW2, at-least not mentally. The basic ideology that Germany should establish itself as the Industrial powerhouse of the world would continue to shape post WW2 Germany.

They did accept their defeat, they were made to accept their defeat by the victorious allies. Which is why today in Germany there are monuments of Red Army troops in Berlin and elsewhere in Germany, when it was these same red army soldiers who raped and murdered 2 million German women, from ages 8 to 88. Meanwhile not a single monument was built of the Waffen SS or millions of other German soldiers of all branches who fought heroically to save Germany and Europe from the scourge of Bolshevism/Communism.

The basic ideology that Germany should establish itself as the Industrial powerhouse of the world would continue to shape post WW2 Germany.

But this belief never gave fruition until some 50 or 60 years after the war. Germany was stripped of all of her manufacturing capabilities after the war. The Soviets and Western allies took every working machinery from German factories.

Many of the Hitler soldiers continued to fight till last bullet even after the end of war unlike Stalin men who would surrender at first opportunity and had to be forced into fighting by death squads. A company of American forces which came into a confrontation with small pocket of resistance in German forest manned by teenagers described the toughness of last man last bullet war fighting mentality infused among the Nazi forces.

This is true, because the Germans had seen first hand the savagery of the Red Army and even Western allies who would execute and torture German POW's. This instilled in them what would famously become one of the most popular anti-Communist slogans; "Better dead than Red".