Adolf Hitler and the side of History never before seen.

[SenLin]

Well, Hitler had probably won against the USSR if the Japanese attacked them from the East too...
Well, we will never know.

 

[Desert Fox]

OK so Hitler started a war on the Western front by attacking Poland, then one year later went and invaded France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Denmark and Norway.

Lets get a few things straight first:

1). Hitler invaded Poland after the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was signed by the foreign ministers of the respective nations (NS Germany and Soviet Union). Now, keep these facts in mind that the pact for the invasion of Poland was signed in Moscow, not Berlin, and it was signed with the approval of Stalin, in other words "naive" Stalin was complicit in the invasion of Poland. Soviet influence and say in European affairs was so great that had Stalin not dismissed the British and French delegations rather than striking deals with the Germans, Hitler would not have invaded Poland and the war would have been avoided all together.

2). In order to invade a country by land you must have a common border with it, especially when it concerns European geography. So why did Stalin allow a common border to form with Germany (when both nations divided Poland and formed a common border)?

Clearly Stalin wanted a confrontation with NS Germany, he planned an invasion of Germany and Europe in general. This is further strengthened by the Soviet Unions invasion and forced annexation of Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia, and the attempt to invade and annex Finland. Later, Molotov demanded to Hitler that he give him a guarantee that Germany would take no actions against Soviet Union in the event that the Red Army invades Romania, Hungary, and Yugoslavia, and this Hitler denied him.

3). As i said above, in order to invade a nation which declared war on you, you need a common border, so in order to invade France (remember, French declared war on Germany, not the other way around), you need to invade Belgium and the surrounding countries. The British and French too made massive armored and infantry movements through Belgium to invade Germany, but that is not considered a violation of Belgian sovereignty, only when Germany did so did it became a "unjustified invasion".

Also, of the 1 million Waffen SS troops, only 400,000 were Germans, the rest were foreign volunteers, and massive chunk of whom were French and Belgians (among them the famous Belgian Leon Degrelle). The Germans were welcomed into Belgium.

Then he attacked those "bloody Communists" (the Soviet Union) in self-defense?

Well, the Soviet Union already made an attempt to invade Western Europe (which obviously includes Germany) through invading Poland after forcefully annexing it, which they failed to do in their first attempt. Stalin was determined in fulfilling Lenin's dream, so there was no doubt that the Soviet Union, which was complicit in the invasion of Poland in 1939, and thus formed a common border with Germany, was once again preparing for a direct invasion of Europe, otherwise what's the point of stationing more than 3 million troops on the border with Germany while Germany's armies were busy fighting Britain and France?

Even if that somehow made sense, then it was pointless in the end because he lost. The biggest reason for why he lost is because he opened up the Eastern Front by attacking the Soviet Union.

Well, if he didn't attack whole of Europe would have been lost to Communism and the hammer and sickle would have been raised in every European capital. The same ruthlessness and barbarity witnessed by the Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, and eventually by the Germans at the hands of the red army would have been the fate of every other European people and nations.

 

[KingMamba]

People need to read up on the Soviet Armed forces right up to before the Nazis invaded, they were 100% getting ready to invade all of Western Europe and the Nazis knowing that preempted the invasion. Also the Germans thought the Western front would have been defeated by the time the Soviet Invasion occurred and obviously miscalculated because England never surrendered. If all had gone by plan the Germans would have easily won the whole war before the US even got involved and that is not even taking into fact that they nearly won anyway. Hitler actually hindered his military by making a bunch of foolish mistakes and if he had maintained a hands off approach he was blessed with many great generals who would have won the whole damn thing.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well, if he didn't attack whole of Europe would have been lost to Communism and the hammer and sickle would have been raised in every European capital. The same ruthlessness and barbarity witnessed by the Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians, and eventually by the Germans at the hands of the red army would have been the fate of every other European people and nations.

Hitler's biggest issue was with the Communists and particularly the Soviet Union. I think we can all agree on that.

So why did he invade France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Denmark and Norway?

If he was really serious about taking on the Soviet Union, then why did he invade half of Europe first?

 

[lemurian]

Lets get a few things straight first:

As i said above, in order to invade a nation which declared war on you, you need a common border, so in order to invade France (remember, French declared war on Germany, not the other way around), you need to invade Belgium and the surrounding countries.

Actually, the Manstein Plan was used to bypass the Maginot line. Germans achieved tactical surprise, in that Ardennes was not regarded as good tank country. France and Germany shared a border anyway.

 

[Desert Fox]

Hitler's biggest issue was with the Communists and particularly the Soviet Union. I think we can all agree on that.

So why did he invade France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Denmark and Norway?

If he was really serious about taking on the Soviet Union, then why did he invade half of Europe first?

I already addressed that point in my previous post, you either missed it or intentionally overlooked it, i'll post that portion of it again here:


3). As i said above, in order to invade a nation which declared war on you, you need a common border, so in order to invade France (remember, French declared war on Germany, not the other way around), you need to invade Belgium and the surrounding countries. The British and French too made massive armored and infantry movements through Belgium to invade Germany, but that is not considered a violation of Belgian sovereignty, only when Germany did so did it became a "unjustified invasion".

Also, of the 1 million Waffen SS troops, only 400,000 were Germans, the rest were foreign volunteers, and massive chunk of whom were French and Belgians (among them the famous Belgian Leon Degrelle). The Germans were welcomed into Belgium.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/genera...istory-never-before-seen-2.html#ixzz2LDVI3Y3B

As you can see from the map above, the Allies simultaneously invaded Germany at the same time that the Germans launched the offensive. Now why don't you ask yourself this question:

If the British and French declare war on Germany, then why did THEY invade Belgium???



Initially Denmark and Norway defied British demands to not sell Iron ore and other necessary minerals with Germany. But when the German merchant fleet came under threat from british mine layers and aircraft, Hitler invaded Denmark and Norway to secure the mineral and ores needed to build Tanks and planes. The British were sending a expeditionary force to cut off Germany's only source of Iron and other metal ore.

In war you don't wait for your enemies to make the first move, there is no excuse for negligence. By saying "oh, but i don't want to invade Norway and Denmark because in America, British, and Russian textbook i will look like an evil man who wants to take over the world".

Its funny how today Western so called "historians" and their following declare Hitler a fool for having canceled the German A b***0***m***b program which he could have used to turn the tide of war, when if he had gone forth with its creation they would have used that to further prove their baseless claim that he wanted total destruction of humanity (funny when they themselves have used and tested such weapons on a massive scale resulting in the miseries of millions).

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

3). As i said above, in order to invade a nation which declared war on you, you need a common border, so in order to invade France (remember, French declared war on Germany, not the other way around), you need to invade Belgium and the surrounding countries. The British and French too made massive armored and infantry movements through Belgium to invade Germany, but that is not considered a violation of Belgian sovereignty, only when Germany did so did it became a "unjustified invasion".

As your map clearly shows, Germany already had a land border with France. They didn't need to "make" a land border.

The bottom line is that Hitler screwed himself. If he wanted to fight the Soviet Union, he could have done so right away after the invasion of Poland.

He didn't need to invade all those other countries first. It made no sense for him to first invade half the countries in Europe, and THEN attack the Soviet Union, surrounding himself from all sides.

In the end, despite doing so much damage, he only made the Soviet Union stronger. After 1945 the strength of the Soviet Union kept increasing and increasing until their collapse in 1991.

 

[Android]

The bottom line is that Hitler screwed himself. If he wanted to fight the Soviet Union, he could have done so right away after the invasion of Poland.
He didn't need to invade all those other countries first. It made no sense for him to first invade half the countries in Europe, and THEN attack the Soviet Union, surrounding himself from all sides.

hitler didnt declared war on england and france it was they both who started it by declaring war on germany

 

[Desert Fox]

As your map clearly shows, Germany already had a land border with France. They didn't need to "make" a land border.

The bottom line is that Hitler screwed himself. If he wanted to fight the Soviet Union, he could have done so after the invasion of Poland. He didn't need to invade all those other countries first.

So what your saying is that Hitler should have first invaded a country (Soviet Union) that had not declared a war on him before securing his rear against France and Britain, two countries that did declare war on him?

That's not a good military strategy. Hitler first secured his rear by capturing France, the only country that could have threatened him in Mainland Western Europe, before moving on to Soviet Union. The British alone could not have done much since they were being strangled by German U-boats.

The Maginot Line was impenetrable from a frontal attack, so the smartest thing to do is to isolate it from the rest of the French armies and cut of its supply source.

 

[KingMamba]

Hitler's biggest issue was with the Communists and particularly the Soviet Union. I think we can all agree on that.

So why did he invade France, Belgium, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Greece, Yugoslavia, Denmark and Norway?

If he was really serious about taking on the Soviet Union, then why did he invade half of Europe first?

He always wanted Western Europe, he only needed Eastern Europe for what he called "German living space". He hated the communists because he thoughts they were sub-human but he was obsessed with Western Europeans because he wanted them to acknowledge German supremacy. The loss in WW1 in which he himself fought was also a bonus for why he wanted a rematch against the West because of the treaty which blamed Germany for everything that happened.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

hitler didnt declared war on england and france it was they both who started it by declaring war on germany

No, it was Germany that caused it by invading Poland. The Germans knew that by invading Poland they would also be starting a war with Britain, France, Australia, Canada, etc.

Then they went on to invade half of Europe anyway.

So what your saying is that Hitler should have first invaded a country (Soviet Union) that had not declared a war on him before securing his rear against France and Britain, two countries that did declare war on him?

That's not a good military strategy. Hitler first secured his rear by capturing France, the only country that could have threatened him in Mainland Western Europe, before moving on to Soviet Union. The British alone could not have done much since they were being strangled by German U-boats.

The Maginot Line was impenetrable from a frontal attack, so the smartest thing to do is to isolate it from the rest of the French armies and cut of its supply source.

Well his greatest enemy was the Soviet Communists right? Not all the little countries in Europe?

So what did Hitler achieve in the end? Except for a catastrophic loss for Nazi Germany, and helping the USSR become a superpower in the post-war period?

He hated the Soviet Union, yet through his catastrophic war in Europe, he helped the Soviet Union ascend to become a superpower.

 

[Desert Fox]

He didn't need to invade all those other countries first. It made no sense for him to first invade half the countries in Europe, and THEN attack the Soviet Union, surrounding himself from all sides.

Let me ask you this:

Why did the British station troops in Greece (military occupation)?

Why were British expeditionary and naval forces on their way to Denmark and and Norway, which then prompted Hitler to invade those countries to secure the mineral deposits in those countries?

Why did the Soviet Union invade Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Moldova, etc......

Why did Stalin allow Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to be signed in Moscow?

surrounding himself from all sides.

Wrong, he secured Western Europe first, with the exception of Britain, but they couldn't do nothing sitting across the channel being strangled by the U-Boats.

 

[KingMamba]

So what your saying is that Hitler should have first invaded a country (Soviet Union) that had not declared a war on him before securing his rear against France and Britain, two countries that did declare war on him?

That's not a good military strategy. Hitler first secured his rear by capturing France, the only country that could have threatened him in Mainland Western Europe, before moving on to Soviet Union. The British alone could not have done much since they were being strangled by German U-boats.

The Maginot Line was impenetrable from a frontal attack, so the smartest thing to do is to isolate it from the rest of the French armies and cut of its supply source.

Yep yep, not to mention that is what the French thought he would do.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Let me ask you this:

Why did the British station troops in Greece (military occupation)?

Why were British expeditionary and naval forces on their way to Denmark and and Norway, which then prompted Hitler to invade those countries to secure the mineral deposits in those countries?

Why did the Soviet Union invade Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland, Moldova, etc......

Why did Stalin allow Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact to be signed in Moscow?




Wrong, he secured Western Europe first, with the exception of Britain, but they couldn't do nothing sitting across the channel being strangled by the U-Boats.

The allies no doubt were guilty of many war crimes during this period as well.

But it was Hitler that failed, not only destroying himself but also helping to create a new superpower (the Soviet Union).

If he was smart he would have concentrated all his effort on the Soviet Union, and simply defended on the Western/Northern/Southern flank instead of expanding there.

 

[Desert Fox]

No, it was Germany that caused it by invading Poland. The Germans knew that by invading Poland they would also be starting a war with Britain, France, Australia, Canada, etc.

Sure, it was the Germans who dressed up as British envoys and ministers that convinced the Polish government, who was on the brink of signing a deal with the Germans which would allow Ethnic German inhabited pre WW1 polish territory to be acceded back to Germany in return for ethnic polish inhabited German territory to be acceded back to poland, to cancel the deal.

It was also Germans who killed more than 50,000 Ethnic German minorities in Poland, which then incited Hitler to invade poland before thousands more Germans would be butchered. Right?

Hitler's invasion of Poland had nothing to do with preventing the butcher of 50-60 thousand Polish Germans (known as the Danzig Massacre), he just woke up one day and decided; "Hey, lets invade poland and start WW2".

Well his greatest enemy was the Soviet Communists right? Not all the little countries in Europe?

Which is why the war in the Western front wasn't as bloody and ruthless as it was in the East.

So what did Hitler achieve in the end? Except for a catastrophic loss for Nazi Germany, and helping the USSR become a superpower in the post-war period?

He hated the Soviet Union, yet through his catastrophic war in Europe, he helped the Soviet Union ascend to become a superpower.

Hitler didn't make USSR a power, it was Roosevelt and Churchill. Churchill brought the demise of the British empire and played a major role in the destruction of Europe.