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ADB Reports Pakistan's Middle Class Larger Than India's

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U r thinking abt India 24/7 .. watches Hindi films... reads hindu. U r more Indian than any of us here. Wish u could move to India and help us in sorting our problems.
FYI peepli live is a big hit in India
actually yard stick for him is india, he measures everything by keeping india as a benchmark. sorry, but we are not global benchmark. he seems to be more concerned about india rather than pakistan, never write about ethnic violence, terrorist attack and floods situation of pakistan. never try to see where we are moving and where they are going.
 
Here is a video clip on Pakistan's middle class:

 
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Here's a report on how Pakistan's middle class is helping the flood victims:

Ain-ul-Ghazala, a local Pakistani doctor, says what motivated her to take matters into her own hands came down to what she saw on television. Images of immense misery and destruction brought about by the worst floods in Pakistan in recent memory unfolded before her eyes, and she says she couldn't sit still.

She had noticed hundreds of tents setup on the streets of her hometown, where various groups sought funds and materials. But despite hearing repeated calls for more aid, tales of corruption deterred her from donating to the government or aid organizations, and she didn’t want to give her money to Islamist groups like Jamat-ud-Dawa.

“No one trusts the government anymore, so I wanted to see the situation for myself and do what I could to help,” she explains. As the effects of the disaster wound into a third week, the gynecologist, who works at a private hospital owned by her husband, decided to set off to the flood-afflicted southern Punjab region along with her three adult daughters and one of their friends, also a female medical doctor.

IN PICTURES: Pakistan floods

Over the course of two days, they distributed, tents and food, while the two doctors checked in on some 200 patients in Kot Addu, near Muzaffargarh. “There were a lot of people suffering," she says. On top of the health problems, "some didn’t have anything to wear - they were without any clothes,” she says. “We gave iron and calcium supplements to the pregnant women, and ended up seeing a few male patients, too.”

Such stories are becoming increasingly common as educated Pakistanis are taking matters into their own hands, organizing fund-raising activities and distributing aid direct to victims of the flood.
Civil society and activism in Pakistan

According to Rasul Baksh Raees, head of social sciences at the Lahore University of Management Sciences, the reach and influence of civil society has grown as Pakistan’s middle classes have become more affluent, organized (thanks in no small part to the Internet age), and confident.

In recent years, Pakistan’s civil society has made headlines for its activism. Indeed, students and middle-class professionals joined lawyers in a movement to restore the country’s popular Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, who was removed from office twice in recent years by former military ruler Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

The networks formed during that "lawyers movement" are the ones that Maham Ali, a student at Bahria University in Islamabad, and her friend Samad Khurram, a Harvard graduate who recently returned to Islamabad, turned to help raise funds for victims of the flooding in the country’s northwest.

Ms. Ali says she used Facebook to solicit contributions from relatives, friends, and friends of friends both at home and abroad. She raised some $2,300, transmitted either to her mother’s bank account or via Western Union transfers, to spend on "family packs" (food items, flour, cooking oils, sugar, lentils, and candles) for the victims of the flooding in Swat. Mr. Khurram and half-a-dozen friends, meanwhile, organized a couple of truckloads of meals and traveled to Swat to hand over supplies to the Army for distribution.

The group was stranded for three days by landslides but then traveled to the village of Solgarah in Pakistan’s northwest to setup a Tandoor kitchen that would feed 50 families for 10 days.

“Naturally we don’t have enough donations for everyone,” says Khurram. “So we tried to make sure the same families aren’t getting the same stuff again and again.”
Tapping the Internet and mobile technology

Avoiding duplication of efforts was also a key motivation for Faisal Chohan, an Islamabad-based technology entrepreneur who created a website to keep track of flooding, aid, shelters throughout Pakistan. Aid workers, officials, and residents can use the system via text message or smart phone log on at: Pakistan flood reports

The open-source platform was originally created in Kenya and called Ushahidi, Swahili for "testimony." It maps user reports of events sent via text message, e-mail, the Web and Twitter. Explains Mr. Chohan: “We believe the mobile [phone] is the best way to communicate with people in normal conditions as well as disasters. This was tried and tested in Kenya and Haiti. Why not put all this first line of reporting on mobiles in Pakistan?” With more than 90 million mobile phone users, he says, it has the potential to become the largest deployment of Ushahidi anywhere in the world.

Others still see opportunities for creative methods of fundraising. Zahra Mirza, a young artist in the city of Lahore, says it’s important to keep the public’s interest alive as donor fatigue sets in, even among Pakistanis. Along with a group of friends and upcoming artists known collectively as Sanjh, a Punjabi word meaning “togetherness,” Mirza has organized an art auction at the city’s major Alhamra gallery.

To Dr. Raees, the analyst, such initiatives highlight both the lack of faith Pakistanis place in the civil institutions, but also the strong sense of solidarity that unites Pakistanis of different ethnicities and cultures.

“Generally, foreign experts portray Pakistan as a fragmented, divided, and confrontational society,” he says. In reality, he argues, “there are overlapping layers of social forces: religion, history, and tradition that bind the Pakistani people together. Pakistaniat, Pakistani nationhood, is something very strong but unacknowledged by many analysts.”

Pakistan floods: How new networks of Pakistanis are mobilizing to help - CSMonitor.com
 
Let's congratulate them and move ahead. Let's admit we are poorer to them end of discussion. By the way if 40% are middle class how many are rich?
 
Good for Pakistan….India needs to do lot more
 
Regarding poverty in India, I am on India visit now and for some work went to Dharavi recently. It is called India's big slum. I noticed almost every home there >95% had Tata Sky installed. Every home I peacked in had fan/coolers/tv and looked more like middle class. I was surprised when I saw some of them having AC. I checked with the guy having the AC and he had a below poverty line card.
It is prominent in India not to report your true income and only working class in Private sector report correct income. A lot of people having bpl cards own flats, it is found that many beggars have decent property but begging is their profession. I can go on and on, I do not think any of these reports take in account all of these factors and hence it has huge possibilty. When I meet someone, I look at his spending patterns to find how much he earn instead of just looking at his income tax report. Obviously my intent is to find right figuers instead of mere statistics which are flawed.
The panwala who sells 1000 pan a day for Rs 5 makes 50% profit out it is falling in poor category because to save income tax he reports meger income. So beleive what you want to believe.
@Riaz his report about naxals said more then 50% of India is under naxals. I asked him to pick a state and district wise prove that 50% is under naxals and he never replied. So publishing something purely based someone else column and having no knowledge on ground gives zero credibility in my opinion.
 
Well there was report few days ago that india total poor population is actually even bigger then all afircan nations poor people combined.3 or 4x the total population of Pakistan.
 
but we are still the second fastest growing economy in the world, if you want to pull our legs then show something new , not the outdated crap of 2005
 
Regarding poverty in India, I am on India visit now and for some work went to Dharavi recently. It is called India's big slum. I noticed almost every home there >95% had Tata Sky installed. Every home I peacked in had fan/coolers/tv and looked more like middle class. I was surprised when I saw some of them having AC. I checked with the guy having the AC and he had a below poverty line card.
It is prominent in India not to report your true income and only working class in Private sector report correct income. A lot of people having bpl cards own flats, it is found that many beggars have decent property but begging is their profession. I can go on and on, I do not think any of these reports take in account all of these factors and hence it has huge possibilty. When I meet someone, I look at his spending patterns to find how much he earn instead of just looking at his income tax report. Obviously my intent is to find right figuers instead of mere statistics which are flawed.
The panwala who sells 1000 pan a day for Rs 5 makes 50% profit out it is falling in poor category because to save income tax he reports meger income. So beleive what you want to believe.
@Riaz his report about naxals said more then 50% of India is under naxals. I asked him to pick a state and district wise prove that 50% is under naxals and he never replied. So publishing something purely based someone else column and having no knowledge on ground gives zero credibility in my opinion.

Here's an excerpt from a recent Wall Street Journal story by an Indian reporter about "The Big Switch" reality TV show in India:

In India, the rich and poor rarely cross paths. More than 80% of people live on 20 rupees a day (43 U.S. cents) or less. Of the country's 1.17 billion population, less than 1% earns more than 85,000 rupees ($1,850) a month. On "Big Switch," many of the rich participants earn more than that. And some of the highest earners among the slum dwellers pulled in about 5,000 to 7,000 rupees ($109 to $152 a month).

Haq's Musings: Slumdog Inspires India's "Big Switch" TV Show

The most abject poverty in India exists in rural areas where over two-thirds of Indians reside. It's shown quite honestly in Peepli Live that was recently released on India's independence day.

In addition to dealing with the serious subject of farmers suicides, the film doesn't even shy away from showing open defecation so widespread in India.
 
Here's an excerpt from a recent Wall Street Journal story by an Indian reporter about "The Big Switch" reality TV show in India:

In India, the rich and poor rarely cross paths. More than 80% of people live on 20 rupees a day (43 U.S. cents) or less. Of the country's 1.17 billion population, less than 1% earns more than 85,000 rupees ($1,850) a month. On "Big Switch," many of the rich participants earn more than that. And some of the highest earners among the slum dwellers pulled in about 5,000 to 7,000 rupees ($109 to $152 a month).

Haq's Musings: Slumdog Inspires India's "Big Switch" TV Show

The most abject poverty in India exists in rural areas where over two-thirds of Indians reside. It's shown quite honestly in Peepli Live that was recently released on India's independence day.

In addition to dealing with the serious subject of farmers suicides, the film doesn't even shy away from showing open defecation so widespread in India.

i watched the film it was a treat to watch but you should stop comparing everything here with the movie, no nation is full of billionares.
 
i watched the film it was a treat to watch but you should stop comparing everything here with the movie, no nation is full of billionares.

In the midst of heart-wrenching poverty, India has more billionaires than most of the richest countries in the world.

The reality of grinding poverty in resurgent India was recently summed up well by a BBC commentator Soutik Biswas as follows:

A sobering thought to keep in mind though. Impressive growth figures are unlikely to stun the poor into mindless optimism about their future. India has long been used to illustrate how extensive poverty coexists with growth. It has a shabby record in pulling people out of poverty - in the last two decades the number of absolutely poor in India has declined by 17 percentage points compared to China, which brought down its absolutely poor by some 45 percentage points. The number of Indian billionaires rose from nine in 2004 to 40 in 2007, says Forbes magazine. That's higher than Japan which had 24, while France and Italy had 14 billionaires each. When one of the world's highest number of billionaires coexist with what one economist calls the world's "largest number of homeless, ill-fed illiterates", something is gravely wrong. This is what rankles many in this happy season of positive thinking.
 
@RiazHaq congrats once agian you ignored all my points. Your analysis is based on news and movies and you do not know a thing about India.
The difference between you and me, you look at someone Income reported to Income tax department which is normally less then half of actual income. I look at real income and facts based on fake number will reveal nothing. When a large number of Indians does not tell anyone there real income where are these sites getting actual data? If the base data is wrong report cannot be right. About open defection in India that is not the topic here.
 
@RiazHaq congrats once agian you ignored all my points. Your analysis is based on news and movies and you do not know a thing about India.
The difference between you and me, you look at someone Income reported to Income tax department which is normally less then half of actual income. I look at real income and facts based on fake number will reveal nothing. When a large number of Indians does not tell anyone there real income where are these sites getting actual data? If the base data is wrong report cannot be right. About open defection in India that is not the topic here.


Denying deep and abject poverty in India will not make it go away.

It's not one but multiple sources and researchers who confirm that Indians are far more deprived than Pakistanis and the poorest of the poor Africans.

The recently released OPHI 2010 country briefings on India and Pakistan contain the following comparisons of multi-dimensional (MPI) and income poverty figures:

India
MPI= 55%,Under$1.25=42%,Under$2=76%,India_BPL=29%

Pakistan
MPI=51%,Under$1.25=23%,Under$2=60%,Pakistan_BPL=33%

Lesotho MPI=48%,Under$1.25=43%,Under$2=62%,Lesotho_BPL=68%

China
MPI=12%,Under$1.25=16%,Under$2=36%,China_BPL=3%

Among other South Asian nations, MPI index measures poverty in Bangladesh at 58 per cent and 65 per cent in Nepal.

Haq's Musings: New Index Finds Indians Poorer Than Africans and Pakistanis
 
@RiazHaq not answering my question twice but just posting more sures about data proves nothing. You never answered my question about how these surveys get the right data when there is no such record. I have proved that you cannot respond to simple question because u do not have any idea about India. You just post more links. First answer my question where is the data for these reports come from? What is source?
 
Regarding poverty in India, I am on India visit now and for some work went to Dharavi recently. It is called India's big slum. I noticed almost every home there >95% had Tata Sky installed. Every home I peacked in had fan/coolers/tv and looked more like middle class. I was surprised when I saw some of them having AC. I checked with the guy having the AC and he had a below poverty line card.
It is prominent in India not to report your true income and only working class in Private sector report correct income. A lot of people having bpl cards own flats, it is found that many beggars have decent property but begging is their profession. I can go on and on, I do not think any of these reports take in account all of these factors and hence it has huge possibilty. When I meet someone, I look at his spending patterns to find how much he earn instead of just looking at his income tax report. Obviously my intent is to find right figuers instead of mere statistics which are flawed.
The panwala who sells 1000 pan a day for Rs 5 makes 50% profit out it is falling in poor category because to save income tax he reports meger income. So beleive what you want to believe.
@Riaz his report about naxals said more then 50% of India is under naxals. I asked him to pick a state and district wise prove that 50% is under naxals and he never replied. So publishing something purely based someone else column and having no knowledge on ground gives zero credibility in my opinion.

I am from a village and I wanted to share this fact . There are a lot of people in my village who have satelliteTV connection,DVDs,CDs and are quite well off but even they have BPL cards??How do i know??One of my relatives runs a govt. co-operative shop. Wonder what would be the absolute poverty numbers if all such bogus poor people are not taken into account and this is in Assam a comparatively less corrupt state. Think about what might happen in Bihar and UP?? With porper system to check the actual poor people the number might even decrease by as much as 2-4%. Sau me se 99 beiman phir bhi mera Bharat mahaan :mps:
 
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