ADB Reports Pakistan's Middle Class Larger Than India's

[SMC]

Sorry all nos. are correct and bang on including all those dazzling figures. I can understand the trauma one is likely to feel when one sees just how much your neighbor is working his *** off to move forward....

No, at least one very important figure is incorrect. Those who know what they're talking about should be able to see it. I am not gonna feed your diversion tactics so I won't go into it as you'll keep going deeper into it. You can make all personal attacks you want, I don't give a ****.

 

[SMC]

$2 a day in PPP terms translates in to about 50 US cents for India. That's the line used by ADB to separate the poor from the middle class. Vast majority of Indian and Pakistani middle class of about 25% of the Indian populations and 40% of Pakistani population sit close to the edge of $2.00 in PPP terms.

Here's the breakdown:

Daily Income......$2-$4.......$4-$10........$10-$20.....Over $20

India...............20.45%......4.15%........0.45%........0.10%

Pakistan............32.94%......6.56%........0.62%........0.15%

China ..............33.97%......25.17%.......3.54%........0.68%

Exactly what I am talking about. Better income equality there for Pakistan, hence not surprising that the middle class proportionally is bigger.

 

[Guynextdoor]

$2 a day in PPP terms translates in to about 50 US cents for India. That's the line used by ADB to separate the poor from the middle class. Vast majority of Indian and Pakistani middle class of about 25% of the Indian populations and 40% of Pakistani population sit close to the edge of $2.00 in PPP terms.

Here's the breakdown:

Daily Income......$2-$4.......$4-$10........$10-$20.....Over $20

India...............20.45%......4.15%........0.45%........0.10%

Pakistan............32.94%......6.56%........0.62%........0.15%

China ..............33.97%......25.17%.......3.54%........0.68%

Illogical argument. How can a PPP equivalent of USD 2 be lesser than 2 when we have a lower cost of living? A GDP of 1.2 T traslates to 3 +T in PPP terms & with your multiple should be what $250 B......

in any case points of both of you are completely irrelevant. The key issue is that we are what 1.5 T? Some say will touch 2 T in next 2 years itself. Reasonably estimate that we'll be 4T in ABSOLUTE TERMS in 8 years, max 10 years- not far from where China is today. You guys aren't gonna match that. Even in % terms that means touching 400B, you won't do that either. So no competition. All your other points like 25 families control 30% etc. are conjectures.

 

[SMC]

^ Our points are irrelevant? See what the topic is about and then notice whose points are irrelevant.

 

[Developereo]

What seems to have rubbed the indian in a wrong way? apparently the source of the anger is the ADB report highlighting a larger percentage of the population in Pakistan as middle class

I think you answered your own question.

Indians and Pakistanis know that both our countries have a long way to go. Indians are willing to admit their shortcomings when comparing themselves with the West or even China, but Pakistan is a sensitive subject for them. Many Indians hate to admit anything positive about Pakistan given all the one-sided negative tripe they keep hearing in the Indian/Western media.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

in any case points of both of you are completely irrelevant.

Learn to Read.....

 

[inddef]

well, if anybody could actually give some reasons why pakistan is doing better than india with the middle class %, we might have a discussion. merely parroting an adb number doesn't seem to help much.

i've given reasons why india has a two track economy with large areas immersed in extreme poverty with dysfunctional rural economies.

lets hear why pakistan despite all kinds of turmoil has managed to promote a higher % of middle class. clearly shouldn't be an accident.

ps : i think most indians on this forum genuinely don't appreciate how bad things are in parts of orissa / jharkand / mp etc. someone from delhi / hyd / bangalore can't imagine whats wrong with india.

 

[SMC]

^ We had a lot of growth in the past in certain stages of our history. The current problems hence are not that big a deal in that context. Not long ago our middle class was 35% of the population. So a 5% increase is not surprising.

 

[Guynextdoor]

I think you answered your own question.

Indians and Pakistanis know that both our countries have a long way to go. Indians are willing to admit their shortcomings when comparing themselves with the West or even China, but Pakistan is a sensitive subject for them. Many Indians hate to admit anything positive about Pakistan given all the one-sided negative tripe they keep hearing in the Indian/Western media.

a) Why would we want compsrisons with you? We've worked our a$$es off to get where we are so our points of comparisons/benchmarks are elsewhere- they are the group we aspire to match.

b) The problem with pakistan is not that we 'don't want to give positive recognition'. The issue is not aspiration- there is JUST not enuf focus. We don't like that. We don't see that so we don't have respect.

c) ya right. Media hype. And that too year in and year out for decades, continuously. Everyone in the world except the smart pakistani can see through that India is infested with all kids of poor and illiterate people and get fooled by us.

 

[inddef]

I think you answered your own question.

Indians and Pakistanis know that both our countries have a long way to go. Indians are willing to admit their shortcomings when comparing themselves with the West or even China, but Pakistan is a sensitive subject for them. Many Indians hate to admit anything positive about Pakistan given all the one-sided negative tripe they keep hearing in the Indian/Western media.

to be honest, i am not a psychologist by RH seems to be unable to digest the positive publicity india gets either. lets see an appreciation of the role indians play at the leading edge of all disciplines from him too.

every single article of his screams 'india isn't that great after all'

 

[Developereo]

a) Why would we want compsrisons with you? We've worked our a$$es off to get where we are so our points of comparisons/benchmarks are elsewhere- they are the group we aspire to match.

Thank you; you just proved my point.

Many Indians like to compare themselves to China or the West, but India is not in their league. Not even close. Maybe you will get there in a few decades, but the discussion is about the here and now, not future projections. The fact is that, at this point in time, India is in the same league as Pakistan on most per-capita economic indicators.

b) The problem with pakistan is not that we 'don't want to give positive recognition'. The issue is not aspiration- there is JUST not enuf focus. We don't like that. We don't see that so we don't have respect.

You are responsible for your education: whether it is proactive research or lazy spoonfeeding by the media, it's your choice. Posters here are providing you with information that doesn't gel with your brainwashed media image of Pakistan and you are resistant to a reality check. It doesn't bother us. You are welcome to live in your fantasy world if it suits you. Other Indians are more honest and acknowledge the problems and accomplishments of both countries.

c) ya right. Media hype. And that too year in and year out for decades, continuously. Everyone in the world except the smart pakistani can see through that India is infested with all kids of poor and illiterate people and get fooled by us.

We are not talking about the extreme poor; not are we talking about billionaires. This thread is comparing the middle class in both countries.

to be honest, i am not a psychologist by RH seems to be unable to digest the positive publicity india gets either. lets see an appreciation of the role indians play at the leading edge of all disciplines from him too.

every single article of his screams 'india isn't that great after all'

He does seem to get under the Indians' skin but, to be fair, there are ten Indians to fight back his every post!

 

[inddef]

He does seem to get under the Indians' skin but, to be fair,
there are ten Indians to fight back his every post!

haha, my assertion is actually the opposite. india has gotten under his skin first because he displays an obsessive ability to research whats not so great about india.

then of course with his research he gets under the skin of indians who read his pieces

 

[Guynextdoor]

Thank you; you just proved my point.

Many Indians like to compare themselves to China or the West, but India is not in their league. Not even close. Maybe you will get there in a few decades, but the discussion is about the here and now, not future projections. The fact is that, at this point in time, India is in the same league as Pakistan on most per-capita economic indicators.

10-15 Years to touch where china today is in terms of absolute GDP (4T?).

You are responsible for your education: whether it is proactive research or lazy spoonfeeding by the media, it's your choice. Posters here are providing you with information that doesn't gel with your brainwashed media image of Pakistan and you are resistant to a reality check. It doesn't bother us. You are welcome to live in your fantasy world if it suits you. Other Indians are more honest and acknowledge the problems and accomplishments of both countries.

And what is this 'information' that isn't gelling with my brainwashed mindset? What's your infra investment? How many Kms of national highway do you build ever day? What are your projections for the next 10 years? What is your target growth rate/poverty reduction rate/literacy rate for the next 5/10/15 years and what are the specific plans/initiatives you have taken?

We are not talking about the extreme poor; not are we talking about billionaires. This thread is comparing the middle class in both countries.

It was a general comment that you guys know the 'reality' when everyone else is fooled.

my responses in red

 

[Trisonics]

A question any Indian forum mamber may choose to respond to :

Why, EXACTLY WHY, are some Indian forum members so bent out of shape over this ADB finding?? To read the posts of some Indian members it's as if someone has gone after something very precious to them - what the heck is all that about??

First of all, its not the reports in particular, but the posts of Mr Haq in general that Indians respond to. Not to belittle his posts, most of them are insightful but there has been at least one case where he had deliberately misquoted a figure and even after insistence he refused to change it and I had personally reported him for plagiarism(since the source was not quoted) and misquoting to the author.

Secondly, there have been numerous cases where he does not respond to questions asked (very valid Qs IMO) but twists them to instigate. As another personal example, from the very own data sources he had quoted, I had found that the rate of improvement over the years was better for India than Pakistan, however the current value showed Pakistan better off. With this argument I had questioned his findings on how India was a fake democracy not doing enough for its people. However the response was another tangent, probably with the lack of toilets in India. As a 3rd example he had gone on a "rant" regarding India's sanitation and lack of toilets..when the data showed India had worked very hard on providing drinking water to its people..another tangential argument had followed.

so the problem for Indians is not the poverty in discussion ..if you will, please do view the list of his threads and if you will find 90% of his threads here on India's poverty. To be fair to the Indian posters here many of them have accepted, expressed their frustration on the problem of India's poverty in a very effective way. In short there is no need to post the same news in multiple threads...there have been many that have run quite a few pages long....so many posters here are already sure about what will ensue in the discussion just like how this one has gone...India's poverty!

 

[Developereo]

my responses in red

You seem to have trouble with reading comprehension. Once again, this discussion is about the present, not future projections.

When you get there, then you can talk but, as of now, India is on par with Pakistan on per-capita economic indicators. You are not comparable to China, let alone the West.